Star Wars: Here we go again...
- Thread starter Whofan
- Start date
I'll go see them if they're made. This is the first I've heard of the live-action series not being made. A shame as I was really looking forward to it.
I think that I really regret my decision to not watch the Clone Wars show, a decision based on the abundant bad that was the lead-in movie. Maybe someday on DVD...
I think that I really regret my decision to not watch the Clone Wars show, a decision based on the abundant bad that was the lead-in movie. Maybe someday on DVD...
S
Stone_Cold_Sisko
Guest
Soooo...this Marcia was Lucas' ex-wife then? (Sorry if I'm late in catching up but I'm a full time Trekkie and only dabble in Star Wars). Was she around for ANH and ESB and not for the others?
Because if that's the case, wow, there does seem to be some connection between her absence and the sudden cliff that Star Wars inexplicably fell off.
She was a co-editor on ANH. I dunno about ESB, she isn't credited as such and I haven't heard of anything major. I do believe she was around for ROTJ as well.
ESB was very much a collaboration creatively between Lucas, Kershner (director), and Kasdan (screenwriter). There's a new "making of ESB" coffee table book by J.W. Rinzler (officially sanctioned I might add, so I'm going to believe everything this book says because LF legal would have zapped the things they didn't like). Super expensive but a good read if you're lounging around the bookstore. Lots of details. Suffice to say, there was a lot of "creative challenging" going on between the 3 of them in the screenwriting process.
There is dialogue from Lucas' draft (technically, the 2nd draft, but they ditched Brackett's original draft altogether. kasdan did the 3rd, 4th and 5th drafts)... it's, uh, prequel worthy dialogue in its length and clunkiness. To be fair, he did also pen a few of the iconic lines that made it through all the draft.
IMO ESB is great because all of them 3 played to their strengths. Lucas came up with an overall story and theme which was very good and fast paced. Kasdan honed it with lots of memorable dialogue, good screen pacing, and Kershner was mostly left alone by Lucas on the directing itself, and was very good with the actors, and had a very character centric approach to directing, and came up with lots of details on the fly.
I'm waiting on the ROTJ book to get a good sense of what happened there, but Lucas co-producer Kurtz left, Marquand (director) was thought to be much more of a Lucas-proxy.
I think it's fair to say ESB was the last SW movie that was a real creative collaboration between Lucas and others.
Lucas definitely needs people to take his ideas and pound them into shape. In the PT, there were many perfectly decent ideas: the Jedi having inhuman rules that are difficult for anyone to measure up to (and a backstory that explains why it's reasonable that they're taking this approach); a war that is contrived from the start by the future Emperor, hidden in plain site; Anakin and Padme's romance being forbidden by Jedi rules; and Anakin being rogue-ish and no fan of democracy.
But those elements were cobbled together in the wrong way. Some vital elements were entirely ignored (convincingly portraying Anakin as heroic and likable at any point in the story) and others that should have been dropped (starting the story with Anakin as a child; the Jedi undercutting their moral high ground by using clones as cannon fodder when they should have had alternatives; not allowing the Jedi to show a bit more intelligence and perceptiveness in figuring out Palps' manipulations). And of course the problems with casting and with directing the actors.
There was a very good prequel trilogy in there somewhere, that needed several more drafts and a lot of input from competent collaborators.
But those elements were cobbled together in the wrong way. Some vital elements were entirely ignored (convincingly portraying Anakin as heroic and likable at any point in the story) and others that should have been dropped (starting the story with Anakin as a child; the Jedi undercutting their moral high ground by using clones as cannon fodder when they should have had alternatives; not allowing the Jedi to show a bit more intelligence and perceptiveness in figuring out Palps' manipulations). And of course the problems with casting and with directing the actors.
There was a very good prequel trilogy in there somewhere, that needed several more drafts and a lot of input from competent collaborators.
Oh yeah, I've only seen the first season so far, but it's actually better than the PT. You should find a way to watch it post-haste.
Sort of random, but my 4-year-old son adores the Clone Wars show, and Anakin is his favorite character. He's going to be Anakin for Halloween, and runs around with a toy lightsaber playing "Jedi" all the time (he makes his 2-year-old sister be "Ahsoka" and she runs around with him even though she has no idea what they're playing ... )
He's never seen any of the films - his only exposure to SW is from the Clone Wars CGI. I keep thinking that it's going to break his heart in a few years when he learns what happens to Anakin in the movies!
He's never seen any of the films - his only exposure to SW is from the Clone Wars CGI. I keep thinking that it's going to break his heart in a few years when he learns what happens to Anakin in the movies!
I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
Heh, my nephew is 4 and we just watched the films. He had seen a little of the clone wars but not much.
My advice is focus on Vader's redemption at the very end of Jedi. That even though he was corrupted, when he really had to make a choice of great importance, he redeemed himself and saved his son. It softens the blow.
Of it would have helped if Anakin didn't spend most of his on-screen time being a douche.. 
Although kids are a bit slow on catching on to that sometimes.
My son was 6 when I showed him the OT for the first time. (A year ago) I still haven't shown him the PT. I just don't have any need to revisit it.
Although kids are a bit slow on catching on to that sometimes.My son was 6 when I showed him the OT for the first time. (A year ago) I still haven't shown him the PT. I just don't have any need to revisit it.
Heh, my nephew is 4 and we just watched the films. He had seen a little of the clone wars but not much.
My advice is focus on Vader's redemption at the very end of Jedi. That even though he was corrupted, when he really had to make a choice of great importance, he redeemed himself and saved his son. It softens the blow.
My four-year-old godson is hugely into Star Wars, and I have to say he probably likes The Clone Wars most of all.
Oh my Gawd yes.
I'd say that on an episode-by-episode basis, it's only a questionable or regrettable decision perhaps some of the time. Some of the episodes you could definitely skip, while the plotting is generally crude and the director shows an inability or unwillingness to deal with incorrect line-readings. At least Ahmed Best is back as Jar Jar... which is a good thing, because as it turned out there is something worse than Ahmed Best's Jar Jar, and it's BJ Hughes' Jar Jar.
Frankenvorta said:
Once again, this ignores the beginning of ROTS; also, to some extent these things are in the eye of the beholder. It may also be worth noting that Anakin was never described as heroic or likable in the OT.
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Well Obi-Wan does describe Anakin as as:
...which seems to indicate that he is.
But of course, this could be Obi-Wan's "certain point of view".
Screw it. Go for it, George. If the new trilogy is terrible, it's not like it'll screw up Star Wars for me any worse than it already is. Maybe it'll redeem the prequel trilogy, if he's truly learned collaboration from The Clone Wars.
I just do not get the love for the Thrawn stuff, though. But I'm aware I'm in the minority, there.
I just do not get the love for the Thrawn stuff, though. But I'm aware I'm in the minority, there.
Thrawn's a worthy enough villain for the books, but I find his demeanor a bit too detached and cold to be truly compelling for the screen.
How could you expose him to SW and not show him the OT first!!!
I'm into S2 now, and it's transitioning nicely from the somewhat simplistic, battle-heavy war series that it started out as, into more diversified topics, nice universe-building and even some character development, at a glacial pace. Also, I'm starting to understand Anakin a whole lot better. Maybe his fall to the dark side wasn't so hard to imagine - the Jedi can be frakkin' creepy! Did he really have that far to fall?
Show him the OT fast! And don't tell him who that Vader guy is. You can't let the best plot twists in Star Wars being ruined!!!
But it's good that he's seeing Clone Wars before the PT. Just tell him that the grownups hadn't figured out how to depict Anakin properly and the PT was just practice till they got it right.
I do remember realizing that Anakin was suddenly being written a bit differently at the start of ROTS and it gave me a little surge of hope that was cruelly dashed when I realized it was just a snippet of writing, and that Hayden Christensen was incapable of selling that characterization in any case.
Both the writing and the acting needed to be far better than they were, if Anakin's story was going to be told well. It's a difficult story because you have to start with a heroic, sympathetic character and then drag him into villainy, yet have the whole thing seem plausible and not lose the audience's sympathy along the way. Writers don't usually tackle this task because it's much more difficult than the normal way of telling a story, with a hero being heroic pretty much all the way through. When I first heard that the PT was going to be made into movies, I was impressed that Lucas would embark on such a bold and difficult task. Little did I realize just how far short of my expectations he would fall.
Yeah, I know that's just my impression (not that I'm alone in that opinion
) but I really do not see how Clone Wars and PT Anakin are the same guy. They are far too divergent, and I simply don't believe they are the same person. I also don't really see PT Obi-Wan and Clone Wars Obi-Wan as being the same character (although they're not nearly as far apart as the Anakins). Again, the Clone Wars version seems more on the mark. I can't see the PT guy becoming the OT Obi-Wan; the Clone Wars guy is more convincing.That doesn't matter. The reason Anakin needs to be heroic is that he needs to do what any fictional character must: convince us that he's worth telling a story about, or hearing a story about. PT Anakin isn't worth the bother of anyone telling his story or anyone hearing it. He's a stupid punk and I can't fathom why anyone would care to tell or hear his story. Clone Wars Anakin is worth telling and hearing about. Just because a writer says, "here's a character I think is worth you hearing about" doesn't mean I'm going to agree. Characters have to earn my attention and respect.
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