Star Wars gets it...Star Trek doesn't

[davidl28]

I was at Legoland in San Diego a few weeks ago for "Star Wars" day--and saw hundreds of kids dressed up in Star Wars outfits, playing with Star Wars toys (to include of course--Star Wars Legos)----and small/young kids could recite all sorts of facts re: Star Wars...


Q: Why does Star Wars have a bigger/younger fan base with more merchandise-cool stuff over Star Trek---where they can't even get a Toy on the market in time (e.g. AA/DST Star Trek toys)--ever.

A. Because the folks who manage Star Wars--George Lucas on down---understand marketing, expanding a fan base, toy marketing, being trans-generational fans...

Star Trek-- no cartoons, not enough cool toys, the toys that are available are semi-collectables and not meant for kids to play with, Star Wars has many products for kids...much more so than Star Trek...and yet--Star Wars original content (TV, Movies, etc) is SO Much Smaller than Star Trek.


Gee--if CBS/Viacom/Paramount could fix it--they ought to push for a Star Trek cartoon now With the "new adventures of Star Trek" with Chris Pine/Quito as voice characters...

thoughts ?

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

Because Star Wars actually is geared to kids. Lucas has said as much. It's themes and story is very basic. Entertaining and gripping, but basic.

Star Trek is geared toward adults. Always has been from the original pilot.

 

[kes7]

As a marketing/PR professional and a fan of both franchises (my heart belongs to Trek, though) I agree, it's all marketing.

I think Star Trek is a hell of a lot more kid-friendly than Star Wars when it comes to the actual on-screen stuff. Kids may not understand the deeper meanings the first time through, but there's not much there that will traumatize them, either. While I will let my five year old son watch most Star Trek (he asks for the Borg by name) -- he has not yet seen a single episode of Star Wars.

I went to check out the Star Trek toys at Target and was completely underwhelmed. The few things they have aren't quite collectors' items, and aren't quite toys. Meanwhile, they have aisle after aisle of Star Wars tie-ins. My son, despite having never seen Star Wars, can identify light sabers, Chewbacca, R2-D2 and Yoda. I still have to explain Star Trek as we go -- the cultural saturation just isn't there.

 

[schatenjager]

Personally, and I LOVE Star Wars, always have, if they had made as many Star Wars shows, series and movies as they have Star Trek, I think that a lot of people would be a lot less enamored of it. One of the problems that Star Trek has, and I LOVE Star Trek too, is over-saturation. There's almost too much of it, hence JJ Abrams "need" to create an alternate universe free of supposed "canon violations".

 

[kes7]

Because Star Wars actually is geared to kids. Lucas has said as much. It's themes and story is very basic. Entertaining and gripping, but basic.

Star Trek is geared toward adults. Always has been from the original pilot.

Star Wars Episodes 4-6, maybe. 1-3 were definitely for an adult audience, and that's probably the reason they were inferior.

Star Trek may have adult innuendo and philosophy, but the actual on-screen action and language is tamer than Star Wars (probably because it was on TV instead of in the theater).

 

[kes7]

Personally, and I LOVE Star Wars, always have, if they had made as many Star Wars shows, series and movies as they have Star Trek, I think that a lot of people would be a lot less enamored of it. One of the problems that Star Trek has, and I LOVE Star Trek too, is over-saturation. There's almost too much of it, hence JJ Abrams "need" to create an alternate universe free of supposed "canon violations".

So, I hear you saying that Star Trek as a franchise might be collapsing under its own weight?

 

[Joby]

But is this anything new? Hasn't it been this way since the 70s when Star Wars first came out? Star Wars is cool and Star Trek isn't. No shocking revelation there.

Star Wars villains and aliens simply look far more cooler then Trek villains and aliens. I mean put up Darth Vader up against Khan, not in a contest of whos more evil or ruthless (which Vader would probably win anyway) but asthetically a kid will see a cool looking robot something guy in black with a helmet and cape. Khan is a 65 year old man with henchmen sporting early 80s duds. Which action figure or t-shirt do you think a kid will want? Even in TNG's heyday, you didn't see a single kid going to school with Jean-Luc Picard binders or backpacks. And what sane kid would want to play with a boring Ferengi or Klingon action figure when they could have Darth Maul, Boba Fett or Jabba the Hutt?

The new Trek film as cool and mainstream popular as it is, still has not been able to reverse this. The other big issue is that Star Wars toys are made by Hasbro and Trek's toys are made by Playmates. Hasbro is head and shoulders above Playmates in design and quality.

but ofcourse, we're not fans of Trek b/c of how cool it looks, Trek appeals to the thinking individual...

 

[Chrisisall]

I was at Legoland in San Diego a few weeks ago for "Star Wars" day--and saw hundreds of kids dressed up in Star Wars outfits, playing with Star Wars toys

Star Wars has an innate "kid appeal" due to wookies & ewoks. Star Trek is for kids like my son, age 10 & above, that relish ideas and science and exploration in favour of sheer conflict.
Conflict will always trump ideas in popular entertainment- it is the way of human beings- it is the way of human society. That Trek has been able to hold on so long with it's positive approach to the future is, in my eyes, an amazing thing, and a reason for hope that we won't kill ourselves as a species. We may have a chance to "evolve beyond that."

 

[mattyhugh]

B Even in TNG's heyday, you didn't see a single kid going to school with Jean-Luc Picard binders or backpacks. And what sane kid would want to play with a boring Ferengi or Klingon action figure when they could have Darth Maul, Boba Fett or Jabba the Hutt?

I did.

 

[-Brett-]

And why exactly would we want children as part of the fanbase?

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

Because Star Wars actually is geared to kids. Lucas has said as much. It's themes and story is very basic. Entertaining and gripping, but basic.

Star Trek is geared toward adults. Always has been from the original pilot.

Star Wars Episodes 4-6, maybe. 1-3 were definitely for an adult audience, and that's probably the reason they were inferior.

Star Trek may have adult innuendo and philosophy, but the actual on-screen action and language is tamer than Star Wars (probably because it was on TV instead of in the theater).

It's ironic you should say that because in the quote I remember from Lucas he was referring to the new trilogy. I also think the new trilogy is much more geared towards kids. Hell the star of number one was a kid. But the presence of Jar Jar Binks and the overly silly droids were strictly a nod to the kids. True three did get very dark, but that was somewhat inevitable given the story.

 

[Blueicus]

I'm curious, how many of you posters was a Star Trek fan as a kid (for argument's sake let's say 16 and under)? I certainly was and I'm sure many of you were as well. Sure, the show had lots of themes considered "adult", but there were also quite a few episodes and concepts that were geared towards children as well (Wesley Crusher?).

 

[davidl28]

And why exactly would we want children as part of the fanbase?

Because without children/young adults---the fanbase won't grow in the long term...the last time, the Star Trek fanbase really experienced tremendous growth was TNG....but now, without a growing, sustainable fan base, don't expect a new TV series, and new products, etc...perhaps a few Star Trek movies--with 'some' broad appeal---but doesn't have in its heart "Star Trek"....

Kids know what a lightsaber is, Chewbacca, Darth Vader, etc...but ask them what a Tricorder is and they give you this odd look..

i still believe--there should be a Star Trek Cartoon series geared towards Ages 8-14

Who else agrees ?

Thanks
D.Lee

 

[Geckothan]

It's a matter of being easy for stupids to digest, and kids are essentially the same thing as stupids where marketing is concerned. Star Wars succeeded in this market (which happens to comprise a very large proportion of the moviegoing public) because it was a (series of) big summer movie(s) full of lasers, explosions and big special effects as well as a plot that didn't require a three-digit IQ to understand.

 

[kv1at3485]

It never hurts a franchise to have more fans, of any part of the demographic. After all, hopefully more fans mean they can sell more merchandise, right?

Besides, when was ST so "deep" as to exclude children? If you want "deep" it's time to go read a book.

 

[2 of 10]

Because Star Wars actually is geared to kids. Lucas has said as much. It's themes and story is very basic. Entertaining and gripping, but basic.

Star Trek is geared toward adults. Always has been from the original pilot.

My thought exactly, S-Wars was and is geared for kids who are in the demographic for the sponcers to produce and push toys and other items for the age group in question...

 

[MANT!]

And why exactly would we want children as part of the fanbase?

Because without children/young adults---the fanbase won't grow in the long term...the last time, the Star Trek fanbase really experienced tremendous growth was TNG....but now, without a growing, sustainable fan base, don't expect a new TV series, and new products, etc...perhaps a few Star Trek movies--with 'some' broad appeal---but doesn't have in its heart "Star Trek"....

Kids know what a lightsaber is, Chewbacca, Darth Vader, etc...but ask them what a Tricorder is and they give you this odd look..

i still believe--there should be a Star Trek Cartoon series geared towards Ages 8-14

Who else agrees ?

Thanks
D.Lee

Sorry, it has been pitched..and would've flopped big..

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/features/bst/article/50875.html

As a recently-discovered memo from Philip Mayer, director of Special programming for Paramount, shows, the original plans for a proposed animated series were by Don Christensen. His "Concept Paper" and Filmation art roughs and sketches showed the ideas for a training ship called "Excalibur," on which versions of the familiar Enterprise crew would train their teenage counterparts. Meant to be educational as well as entertaining, the proposed series would have featured six of the seven lead cast members returning plus five multi-racial children (Steve, Bob, Chris, Tun-Tun, Stormy, and Ploof).

No No No..not even if a thousand nuns wanted me to..

 

[davidl28]

And why exactly would we want children as part of the fanbase?

It's a matter of being easy for stupids to digest, and kids are essentially the same thing as stupids where marketing is concerned. Star Wars succeeded in this market (which happens to comprise a very large proportion of the moviegoing public) because it was a (series of) big summer movie(s) full of lasers, explosions and big special effects as well as a plot that didn't require a three-digit IQ to understand.

I'm a big Star Trek fan--but it's pretty arrogant to say that people who like Star Wars are stupids/idiots/childish; whereas the 'intellectuals' like Star Trek....

So basically, you have to be a minimum age and IQ minimum to like Star Trek ?

That's a way to kill a franchise...

Though Star Trek was a cartoon in the 70s, it's time for a 2nd/different cartoon series and/or products/markets to expand the fan base

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Well, Star Wars, as people say, is more explicitly aimed at kids. Also, it has fewer characters and less material, which makes it easier to digest and it also has a kind of mythic resonance that Star Trek lacks, which makes it very easy to get into. I don't really see the problem though, since by any standards Star Trek has been staggeringly successful. As TV sci-fi franchises go only Doctor Who can really compete with it (and maybe that's only in Britain). Compared to pretty much everything else - Blake's 7, Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica - Star Trek is a juggernaut and really about as mainstream as a sci-fi franchise can get.

 

[Geckothan]

It's a matter of being easy for stupids to digest, and kids are essentially the same thing as stupids where marketing is concerned. Star Wars succeeded in this market (which happens to comprise a very large proportion of the moviegoing public) because it was a (series of) big summer movie(s) full of lasers, explosions and big special effects as well as a plot that didn't require a three-digit IQ to understand.

I'm a big Star Trek fan--but it's pretty arrogant to say that people who like Star Wars are stupids/idiots/childish; whereas the 'intellectuals' like Star Trek....

So basically, you have to be a minimum age and IQ minimum to like Star Trek ?

That's a way to kill a franchise...

Though Star Trek was a cartoon in the 70s, it's time for a 2nd/different cartoon series and/or products/markets to expand the fan base

Don't get me wrong, I like Star Wars fine (4, 5 and 6 anyway, not so much the prequels), but it's not exactly far-fetched to say that it was alot more accessible than Star Trek to simple minded people. It had the generic good vs. evil plot, it had sword (ok, lightsaber) fights, it had the big explosionfest battle scenes, and it was a big summer movie. These things, at least these days (I wasn't around in that era, so maybe things weren't so bad in those days), draw in kids and stupids alike.

While on the other hand, Star Trek might seem "dull" and "boring" for the most part to people who need at least 1 explosion every minute to keep them glued to the screen. It's not that you need to be smart to "get" Star Trek, but with the exception of a few of the movies, there's not much to keep your average "hey look at me I have the attention span of a coked up ferret" viewer interested. It's a bit more of a cerebral experience than Star Wars.