Star Wars: Episode VII: The Nerd Rage Awakens

[DWF]

Re: New Casting and Story Rumors re: EPISODE VII

... Obi-Wan's Force spirit begins communicating with Anakin to set him at ease and let him know that his heroic sacrifices during the final minutes of his life not only fulfilled the prophecy of the Chosen One but were a redeeming act for his soul after all the pain and tragedy he'd caused over the decades as Darth Vader.

Vader/Anakin acts rather selfishly (again) when he kills Palpatine. He'd never have lifted a finger against the Emperor if it hadn't been his son that was about to die.

But this would have been okay if the prequels hadn't shown us that it was also his selfishness that was the cause for the rise of the Empire and all that pain and tragedy; without his selfish acts Palpatine would never have become emperor but a corpse.

Anakin died saving Luke's life I'd hardly call that a selfish act. And I can't Anakin for the rise of the Empire, if anything he wanted to save Padme's life and Palpatine told him he could do it with Anakin's help.

 

[Reverend]

Re: New Casting and Story Rumors re: EPISODE VII

Yeah, let's not forget Palpatine had a solid decade to work on Anakin before finally turning him. He practically made him into the whiny bundle of ego and resentment we all disliked so much in the latter two prequels.

It's nothing short of a miracle that he managed to break free at the end and somehow let go of his hate.

 

[davejames]

Re: New Casting and Story Rumors re: EPISODE VII

I don't think Anakin really needed much of a push to become a whiny bundle of ego and resentment. He seemed to have most of that figured out on his own. Lol

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: New Casting and Story Rumors re: EPISODE VII

There's also the theory with some fans that since Anakin was specifically conceived by manipulating the midichlorians to create somebody so powerful in the Force that they'd one day make galactic history, he might well have been "pre-programmed" to slide into gradually deeper and more pronounced fear and anger as he matured, ensuring his eventual weakening and downfall so that he'd become the ideal and incredibly powerful apprentice and tool of the Dark Side.

After all, if Plagueis and/or Sidious were ultimately responsible for Anakin's creation then what good would it have done them had he grown up a generally mild-mannered, happy, centered and satisfied young man who wasn't prone to the violent outbursts of anger, fear and jealousy that turned others to the Dark Side? Like I mentioned, it's a theory more than anything else but to the extent that anything about the Sith and the two different sides of the Force make any sense it seems plausible that Anakin may have had the stack decked against him from the moment of his conception, and I don't mean a childhood of slavery on a hot, arid and corrupt planet out in the boondocks of the galaxy.

 

[Venardhi]

Re: New Casting and Story Rumors re: EPISODE VII

You know, I almost managed to forget the whole "virgin birth" thing. I prefer to think that some kind of trauma was involved in Anakin's conception that she refused to integrate and she was simply an unreliable witness on that particular detail when Qui-Gon questioned her.

 

[Mr Light]

Re: New Casting and Story Rumors re: EPISODE VII

I've read "Darth Plageuis" twice and I've come to the conclusion that the Force itself created Anakin in reaction to Plageuis' and Sidious' attempt to wrest control of the Force. It created Anakin to defeat them. But Sidious was the Sithari and practically invincible. So the only person that could defeat him would be a trusted underling of twenty years who would only snap to save the life of his son, the reminder of his lost wife.

 

[DWF]

Re: New Casting and Story Rumors re: EPISODE VII

You know, I almost managed to forget the whole "virgin birth" thing. I prefer to think that some kind of trauma was involved in Anakin's conception that she refused to integrate and she was simply an unreliable witness on that particular detail when Qui-Gon questioned her.

You're confusing Immaculate Conception with virgin birth and it's highly unlikely that Shmi would forget that somebody was having sex with her.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Re: New Casting and Story Rumors re: EPISODE VII

You know, I almost managed to forget the whole "virgin birth" thing. I prefer to think that some kind of trauma was involved in Anakin's conception that she refused to integrate and she was simply an unreliable witness on that particular detail when Qui-Gon questioned her.

You're confusing Immaculate Conception with virgin birth

Where are you getting that? Venardhi never used the word immaculate.

and it's highly unlikely that Shmi would forget that somebody was having sex with her.

And if she'd been abducted, rendered unconscious, and artificially inseminated?

 

[DWF]

Re: New Casting and Story Rumors re: EPISODE VII

You know, I almost managed to forget the whole "virgin birth" thing. I prefer to think that some kind of trauma was involved in Anakin's conception that she refused to integrate and she was simply an unreliable witness on that particular detail when Qui-Gon questioned her.

You're confusing Immaculate Conception with virgin birth

Where are you getting that? Venardhi never used the word immaculate.

and it's highly unlikely that Shmi would forget that somebody was having sex with her.

And if she'd been abducted, rendered unconscious, and artificially inseminated?

If there's no father as she said it's immaculate conception and who would abduct her and make her pregnant? And for that matter why? It's easier to accept things as they are instead of making up things that you can't back up storywise.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Re: New Casting and Story Rumors re: EPISODE VII

You're confusing Immaculate Conception with virgin birth

Where are you getting that? Venardhi never used the word immaculate.

and it's highly unlikely that Shmi would forget that somebody was having sex with her.

And if she'd been abducted, rendered unconscious, and artificially inseminated?

If there's no father as she said it's immaculate conception and who would abduct her and make her pregnant? And for that matter why? It's easier to accept things as they are instead of making up things that you can't back up storywise.

Everything we know in film canon suggests that Anakin had no father, absolutely.

But if we're going to consider Shmi having sex to conceive Anakin (which never happened), we may as well consider all the other alternatives that never happened either, as we have just as much reason to believe in them as well (i.e. none at all).

And, no one is introducing the word immaculate into this conversation except you. For the record, Catholics believe that it was Mary's conception that was Immaculate [link].

 

[DWF]

Re: New Casting and Story Rumors re: EPISODE VII

Where are you getting that? Venardhi never used the word immaculate.

And if she'd been abducted, rendered unconscious, and artificially inseminated?

If there's no father as she said it's immaculate conception and who would abduct her and make her pregnant? And for that matter why? It's easier to accept things as they are instead of making up things that you can't back up storywise.

Everything we know in film canon suggests that Anakin had no father, absolutely.

But if we're going to consider Shmi having sex to conceive Anakin (which never happened), we may as well consider all the other alternatives that never happened either, as we have just as much reason to believe in them as well (i.e. none at all).

And, no one is introducing the word immaculate into this conversation except you. For the record, Catholics believe that it was Mary's conception that was Immaculate [link].

I know what immaculate conception means, it really means concieved without Original Sin and yes it does refer Mary. But the idea presented is that Anakin must've had a father and there's notheir onscreen to suggest that. And really there's reason to suggest otherwise.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Re: New Casting and Story Rumors re: EPISODE VII

But the idea presented is that Anakin must've had a father and there's notheir onscreen to suggest that. And really there's reason to suggest otherwise.

At this point that is true, but I would never hold my breath that it will always be so.

In the OT, the Force was just stated to be a mystical energy field. In the PT, we learned that midi-chlorians were involved.

Down the line, we might learn that Anakin's father was a Force ghost or something like one. Expansions of the Star Wars universe have routinely occurred as films have been made, and there's no reason to assume that this issue would be immune from being the topic of future revelations.

 

[JoeZhang]

Re: New Casting and Story Rumors re: EPISODE VII

I don't really see the point of considering other alternatives - there has nothing been anything on screen to suggest anything but the virgin birth*. Sure you can consider options such as a traumatic rape or she was doped or taken off in a spaceship but given what is on screen, I take that in the same way as people who insist that The Doctor is rogering his companions over the Tardis console as soon as the camera cuts away.


* although Sith suggests a slightly different take on it if you want to read Palpatine's story a certain way.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Re: New Casting and Story Rumors re: EPISODE VII

although Sith suggests a slightly different take on it if you want to read Palpatine's story a certain way.

I've never seen any evidence that that was any more than an insinuation meant to tantalize Anakin, words uttered by someone well established to twist the truth to his own advantage.

 

[JoeZhang]

Re: New Casting and Story Rumors re: EPISODE VII

although Sith suggests a slightly different take on it if you want to read Palpatine's story a certain way.

I've never seen any evidence that that was any more than an insinuation meant to tantalize Anakin, words uttered by someone well established to twist the truth to his own advantage.

What evidence would there be? I think the whole point of the scene is you will never know.

 

[kirk55555]

Re: New Casting and Story Rumors re: EPISODE VII

You know, I almost managed to forget the whole "virgin birth" thing. I prefer to think that some kind of trauma was involved in Anakin's conception that she refused to integrate and she was simply an unreliable witness on that particular detail when Qui-Gon questioned her.

Yeah, I agree. I think it takes something away from Vader to both make him a freaky, unusual birth, and in removing free will from his fall to the dark side. I just took her lin e as her not really knowing the Dad, not that Anakin was the Force Jesus. I don't really care if it was implied on screen, Anakin being born literally from the force was stupid, and I didn't even accept that when I first saw TPM as a kid in theaters.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Re: New Casting and Story Rumors re: EPISODE VII

It wasn't stupid. It made Sidious even more conniving. And Vader's fall wasn't supposed to be "free." That was the whole point of the tragedy. He was a victim of his lot.

 

[kirk55555]

Re: New Casting and Story Rumors re: EPISODE VII

It wasn't stupid. It made Sidious even more conniving. And Vader's fall wasn't supposed to be "free." That was the whole point of the tragedy. He was a victim of his lot.

A force user getting a woman pregnant by the force, or just the force doing it by itself, is stupid. Also, predestination is BS. By that logic, Vader was never a villain, and he was. Vader was never a victim of anything but his own choices. Anakin was selfish, a moron, arrogant, easily manipulated and whiny. He was all that because of how his life turned out, not because it was his "destiny".

To say it wasn't his choice takes away the little point the prequels had in regards to Anakin's story arc, and if you believe Sidious or his master made Anakin, it turns them into gods who should never have been defeated. Believe what you want, but I choose to interpret that stuff the way I always have. Anakin's mother had sex with either a) a man she didn't know, b) someone whose identity she didn't want anyone to know or c) someone who she just doesn't remember. Anakin is not Space Jesus, and he fell to the darkside because of his own choices, not because destiny said he had to.

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: New Casting and Story Rumors re: EPISODE VII

If anything, Anakin's origins make Palpatine/Sidious a lot more sinister and more interesting. Anakin was going to be the great hope of the Sith to pacify and rule the galaxy after the temporary placeholders of Maul and Tyranus (Dooku) had been disposed of. Palpatine had a diabolical scheme that predated Episode I by a number of years and this little freed slave boy with a good heart was going to play a significant role in helping him accomplish his dark, sinister goals.

Anakin was a pawn the whole time but didn't realize it until years later, and by then it was too late. One can criticize and dislike Hayden's performance as much as they want but Anakin's fate and downfall were tragic and made Palpatine an even bigger bastard and villain than we already believed him to be.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Re: New Casting and Story Rumors re: EPISODE VII

Anakin's mother had sex with either a) a man she didn't know, b) someone whose identity she didn't want anyone to know or c) someone who she just doesn't remember. Anakin is not Space Jesus, and he fell to the darkside because of his own choices, not because destiny said he had to.

Assumes facts contrary to evidence. Palpatine strait-out tells the audience "I created Anakin." But you choose to ignore that because you don't like it and make up your own thing? Whatever.

If anything, Anakin's origins make Palpatine/Sidious a lot more sinister and more interesting. Anakin was going to be the great hope of the Sith to pacify and rule the galaxy after the temporary placeholders of Maul and Tyranus (Dooku) had been disposed of. Palpatine had a diabolical scheme that predated Episode I by a number of years and this little freed slave boy with a good heart was going to play a significant role in helping him accomplish his dark, sinister goals.

Anakin was a pawn the whole time but didn't realize it until years later, and by then it was too late. One can criticize and dislike Hayden's performance as much as they want but Anakin's fate and downfall were tragic and made Palpatine an even bigger bastard and villain than we already believed him to be.

This is basically what I said. You just did it better.