Star Wars: Episode VII: The Nerd Rage Awakens

[fireproof78]

You know, I've often wondered about this. We're accustomed to seeing the Jedi as good guys because they're framed that way, but I sometimes have felt we never got a clear picture on how the Order was perceived by the common people. I know Palpatine had propaganda set up to portray some of the slain Jedi as abusing their powers and needing to be put down for that reason, but it's not often we get more perspective.

I honestly would like to see this, especially since there is an interesting juxtaposition between the PT and the OT. In the OT, Han is dismissive of the Jedi as though they are just a legend (which certainly would be the result of Imperial propaganda) when they were a part of a government that rule the galaxy only 30 years ago

Seriously? Did the Empire so neatly decimate all stories of the Jedi that everyone went *shrug* Guess I just imagined that.

Which certainly would be the result of Imperial propaganda?!? No, I don't think so. There's nothing in the OT that necessitates Imperial propaganda being either the direct or indirect source of Han's skepticism in the Force. In fact, Han claims direct experience, in having flown from one end of the galaxy to the other, and having never seen anything to make him believe in the Force. Granted, it's possible that he was influenced by Imperial propaganda, but that possibility alone does not make his attitude "certainly" the result of it. On the other hand, no doubt Imperial propaganda did generally have the effect of making at least some people skeptical in the Jedi and the Force.

Certainly may be to strong of a word, but I still find it odd.

Couple that with the previous EU idea that Han was an Imperial in training before freeing some Wookies, it kind of adds up for me.

Like I said, certainly is probably the wrong word, and I'm sure there are other reasons for Han's skepticism. I just find it a bit interesting that in 30 years the Jedi are treated with such derision as to be regarded as little more than myths or followers of "hokey religions."

But, 30 years is also a long time for the Emperor to put out his own spin too.

 

[Trekkin]

Would ordinary people have witnessed a lot of obvious Force powers? Not so much the heightened reflexes and mind reading, but undeniable feats like telekinetically ripping up a tree and chucking it at the enemy? Maybe the majority of the populace just remember the Jedi as a religious sect with an affinity for laser swords. Admiral Wazzhisface seemed pretty shocked with Vader started with the Force choking.

That's not counting what we saw in Clone Wars of course. But then again, the galaxy's a big place. You could have a thousand older people saying 'I saw the Jedi do this crazy magical thing', and billions of people who hadn't seen any of that stuff dismissing them as religous nuts. That what we do today. 'Sure honey, I totally believe that three people saw Jesus appear on an enchilada.'

Not that I believe divine beings do turn up on fast food, I'm just illustrating my point.

 

[Trekkin]

Double post for...some reason

 

[Ithekro]

Since a lot of battles took place away from people, (who would likely flee once the thousands of battle droids and clones started shooting up the place), few would have witnessed the Jedi in action.

The Jedi in pre-Clone Wars time would more than likely not use their more obvious powers since they are trained to only used such things as needed (knowledge and defense). What people might seen in the use of the Jedi Mind Trick to get information or maybe a quick lightsaber flash to defend someone or themselves from harm (and literally disarm the perp). They usually wouldn't be lifting stones and trees, and generally not fighting wars. The Phantom Menace starts with Obi-wan following Qui-Gon to act as mediators in a trade dispute. They were going to talk to the Trade Federation on the side under the quiet authority of the Chancellor to end the blockade peacefully. Though that might have meant:

(Hand wave) "You will withdraw from this system" (I will withdraw from this system) "You will find another way to make your profit margin" (I will find another way to make my profit margin).

Holonet News reports that Nute Gunray decides to leave the Naboo system and establishes a counter-tariff in conjunction with the Hutts against the Republics trade route taxation designs. The Senate has decided it cannot afford to lose trade betwen both the Trade Federation and the Hutts and as withdrawn the tax on trade routes. Senator Palpatine has said he is pleased that the rumored invasion of his homeworld of Naboo is just a rumor, but is upset by the new popularity of Chancellor Valorum in spite of rumors of corruption.

A boring story.

 

[Beagleman]

(Hand wave) "You will withdraw from this system" (I will withdraw from this system) "You will find another way to make your profit margin" (I will find another way to make my profit margin).

Holonet News reports that Nute Gunray decides to leave the Naboo system and establishes a counter-tariff in conjunction with the Hutts against the Republics trade route taxation designs. The Senate has decided it cannot afford to lose trade betwen both the Trade Federation and the Hutts and as withdrawn the tax on trade routes. Senator Palpatine has said he is pleased that the rumored invasion of his homeworld of Naboo is just a rumor, but is upset by the new popularity of Chancellor Valorum in spite of rumors of corruption.

I want a cut of TPM just like that, 10 minutes, The End. And the whole SW saga never existed, just to see some hardcore-fan's heads explode.

 

[fireproof78]

(Hand wave) "You will withdraw from this system" (I will withdraw from this system) "You will find another way to make your profit margin" (I will find another way to make my profit margin).

Holonet News reports that Nute Gunray decides to leave the Naboo system and establishes a counter-tariff in conjunction with the Hutts against the Republics trade route taxation designs. The Senate has decided it cannot afford to lose trade betwen both the Trade Federation and the Hutts and as withdrawn the tax on trade routes. Senator Palpatine has said he is pleased that the rumored invasion of his homeworld of Naboo is just a rumor, but is upset by the new popularity of Chancellor Valorum in spite of rumors of corruption.

I want a cut of TPM just like that, 10 minutes, The End. And the whole SW saga never existed, just to see some hardcore-fan's heads explode.

I'd watch that

That is an interesting thought. The Jedi were guardians of peace, but that doesn't mean they were constantly fighting wars. So, the public probably saw Jedi as negotiators who occasionally had to use force (no pun intended). The actual use of the Force was probably more subtle (mind tricks and the like) in dealing with negotiations.

So, perhaps the concept of the Jedi was closer to police officers, and that the general public rarely saw them using the Force. The Clone Wars were fought with clones and droids, disposable soldiers, with the Jedi leading but not everywhere.

May be dismissing the Jedi would not be as hard as I'm thinking.

 

[Hound of UIster]

The emphasis by George Lucas himself on the role of the Jedi were as peacekeepers and mediators. In the previous Expanded Universe Literature, the transition of the Jedi from their previous established role to military leaders is something actually planned and foreseen by the Sith to weaken the Jedi.

 

[fireproof78]

The emphasis by George Lucas himself on the role of the Jedi were as peacekeepers and mediators. In the previous Expanded Universe Literature, the transition of the Jedi from their previous established role to military leaders is something actually planned and foreseen by the Sith to weaken the Jedi.

This is one aspect of the ROTS novelization that made me appreciate the film a little more, as well as made me kind of mad because it showed what should have been shown in the film. Part of it was that the Sith knew of the prophecy and worked actively to basically turn it towards their advantage. Palpatine's tutelage of Anakin is essentially his subversion of the Jedi. And, to the credit of AotC and the beginning of ROTS, we see the seeds of that influence and the outcome.

Same thing with the war. Again, the nod to the conspiracy at the end of AotC was nice, but kind of left dangling. I think the transformation of the Jedi was hinted at, but we never really saw them as peacemakers or mediators because that role pretty much gets eclipsed by action in TPM.

Again, it is present in the films, but only loosely. I find that frustrating.

 

[Skywalker]

(Hand wave) "You will withdraw from this system" (I will withdraw from this system) "You will find another way to make your profit margin" (I will find another way to make my profit margin).

Holonet News reports that Nute Gunray decides to leave the Naboo system and establishes a counter-tariff in conjunction with the Hutts against the Republics trade route taxation designs. The Senate has decided it cannot afford to lose trade betwen both the Trade Federation and the Hutts and as withdrawn the tax on trade routes. Senator Palpatine has said he is pleased that the rumored invasion of his homeworld of Naboo is just a rumor, but is upset by the new popularity of Chancellor Valorum in spite of rumors of corruption.

Surely such a potentiality didn't occur to Lucas when he decided to have the Trade Federation attempt to murder the Jedi when they arrived. Nah, the guy's just a hack writer.

 

[Ithekro]

The novel of RoTS is rather good at filling in the gaps the film has. I particularly like the opening scenes in the novel. The description of the war's effect on the people of the Republic. How they see the Jedi falling (both died and those that turned to the dark side) and how fear and doubt has clouded the general adult public. But the telling thing is the description of the children. They have less fear. They are the ones that know it will be alright this time around. They know Skywalker and Kenobi are coming.

Also the duel with Dooku from Dooku's point of view makes the fight much more entertaining. A bit of it I would have liked to see on screen would have been Obi-wan's clear taunting of Dooku by switching forms after Dooku taunts him again about his lack of skill, and visably seeing Dooku get worried by the shift in Obi-wan and Anakin's skill levels from the start of the fight. (even if it got played off in the fashions "by the way, I'm not left handed either").

 

[Doctorwhovian]

There's a new mobile game coming out called Uprising, which along with Battlefront's Jakku mission will fill in some of the gaps of the new post-ROTJ canon. It's set in the Anoat system where a lot of ESB takes place.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/06...t page)&utm_content=5&utm_campaign=Coverstory


The design of the Purgetroopers kind of looks like a cross between Vader and the Darktroopers from the old Dark Forces game. Moff Adelhard's outfit also looks a bit like Thrawn's.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I don't know where else to ask this:
Completely geeky Star Wars question:
The special editions (both 1997 and 2004, as well as the Blue Rays) do not have the few notes of William's Force Theme played as they lock S-Foils in attack position. Yet most fans WILL remember that it was used.
It's also not on the bonus disk theatrical New Hope
So, which version is it on?

 

[Doctorwhovian]

I knew there was an issue with the force theme being muted on the 2004 DVDs when the X-wings dive, but I think that was fixed in the blu-ray. I don't recall any force theme being played when the S-foils opened, just the same suspenseful music pretty much on all versions.

The similar scene in ROTJ does have a few notes played on it though (Although it's mainly part of the main Star Wars theme, not really the force theme), maybe you're mixing the two somehow?

 

[Ithekro]

Leia: "Anoat system? There's not much there"

The pattern on that game does resemble several concept from the older EU. A period of denial in various regions of Imperial space. Local Imperial leaders cutting themselves off to make mini-Empires under their own rule. Sometimes in the name of Palpatine, and sometimes not. The local power gettings some specialty troopers to define them from the regular stormtroopers.

This pattern might still exist by The Force Awakens, with many Imperial factions holding out. Every once in a while one starts to make a bid to take over, leading to conflicts, both with other Imperial factions, and with whatever government has taken over Coruscant. The New Republic or whatever.

 

[Jedi_Master]

The emphasis by George Lucas himself on the role of the Jedi were as peacekeepers and mediators. In the previous Expanded Universe Literature, the transition of the Jedi from their previous established role to military leaders is something actually planned and foreseen by the Sith to weaken the Jedi.

An excellent contribution on the part of the Expanded Universe, in particular the Darth novels. The Sith played a very, very long game, secure in the ruthless efficiency of their chosen organizational structure.

 

[Mr Light]

Stupid question, is this game "freemium" the way Angry Birds Star Wars is?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

The pattern on that game does resemble several concept from the older EU. A period of denial in various regions of Imperial space. Local Imperial leaders cutting themselves off to make mini-Empires under their own rule. Sometimes in the name of Palpatine, and sometimes not.

While I got the impression Palpatine was enough of a recluse that covering up his death might work, I have to wonder how the Empire expects to cover up both the Death Star II's destruction and the Rebellion still existing and being a significant threat since those two things are kind of too big and too noticeable not to be noticed.

 

[cooleddie74]

An excellent contribution on the part of the Expanded Universe, in particular the Darth novels. The Sith played a very, very long game, secure in the ruthless efficiency of their chosen organizational structure.

And combined with the Old Republic's increasing and accelerating corruption and the Jedi Order's cocksure faith in its own powers and abilities to maintain peace and order within the galaxy that's why I think the Sith were destined to overpower and overthrow the Republic whether or not a "Chosen One" conceived by the midichlorians fell to the Dark Side and became one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history.

The Sith simply had too many tentacles in every corner of both the Republic and outlying powers and with or without the Clone Wars there would have been some catastrophic event or series of events that toppled the democratic order and placed a Sith Master on the throne of a totalitarian regime. Palpatine/Sidious and his series of apprentices just happened to have access to the greatest power and technology and the most cunning ideas with which to decay the Republic from within by turning it upon itself with the Separatist movement, the Clone Army and the resulting wars.

 

[Ithekro]

While I got the impression Palpatine was enough of a recluse that covering up his death might work, I have to wonder how the Empire expects to cover up both the Death Star II's destruction and the Rebellion still existing and being a significant threat since those two things are kind of too big and too noticeable not to be noticed.

Endor is kind of out of the way and probably the second Death Star was a secret construction. So not as many people would know about it in the first place. But if any news did come out about it, the local governors could deny its destruction (rather than existance) and say it is still incomplete, mentoning it took over a decade to build the first Death Star (a fine deep core mining platform that was). Covering up the Rebellion is only as hard as it is to cut off communications ad restrict travel. If the Interdictor-class ships remain canon (unsure at this point) than the gravity well projectors can prevent ships from entering or leaving systems via a form of blockade in hyperspace.

In the novels the Empire was able to keep proof of the Death Star II's destruction out foe about a year along with the Emperor's death. They were able to spin it in their favor for another two years in the Core Worlds, even having Vader as a hero in the Imperial museum. It was still assumed that Luke Skywalker (or perhaps just the explosion) had killed Palpatine. Later he'd be branded the biggest traitor for killing the Emperor.

But then they later had a witness...the Emperor himself (a clone with Palpatine's Dark Side spirit in it). He wouldn't pass over like the Jedi could, but his will was strong enough to jump bodies for a limited amount of time...and is rage was able to get his spirit to one of his clones through hyperspace (or maybe he jumped bodies into someone how escaped to the Imperial fleet and rode until getting to Byss). They managed to kill him again, permanently. Any "Palpatines" that showed up after the Dark Empire series were imposters, fakes, and rumors.

 

[Doctorwhovian]

Some of the EU if I remember correctly had the Death Star II under construction as far back as the time of the first movie, possibly at the same time as the original. That, and the 'local systems' line in the first movie (as well as a ROTJ draft and concept art featuring two Death Stars under construction!), makes you wonder if Lucas (or later the EU writers) intended the Death Stars to be sort of all over the place, each keeping watch over different sectors or something, or as sort of a hub for the fleets as well.