Star Wars: Clone Wars 1 X 15: Defenders of Peace (Spoilers)

[JediKnightButler]

What did everybody else think of this past week's conclusion to "Jedi Crash"?

Good: More rock-solid Jedi action. George Takei does a voice in this episode (the Neimodian Separatist General). Anakin is back in fighting form. Creepy Separatist super weapon- I hope that they are unable to duplicate that technology.

Bad: The leader of the Lemur colony. While I consider myself generally opposed to war/military conflict, I realize that there are some times that you need to fight- if for no other reason than to protect yourself. It seemed kind of ridiculous that the leader of the colony was so pacifistic that he would actually be o.k. with him and his people being completely wiped out by the Separatist's genocidal weapon- The younger Lemurs who did end up fighting alongside the Jedi had the right idea IMHO. It would be interesting to see the aftermath of this event on the colony.

Interesting: Real moral/ethical dilemma: Do you help people who don't want to be helped and if so, how do you do that while attempting to respect/honor their beliefs?

 

[Christopher]

It's such a cliche -- every time a pacifist group shows up in fiction, inevitably their values will be discredited and they'll have to "learn" the need to fight. Just once I'd like to see a story that respects their values and that doesn't automatically reject the idea that it can be braver to die for one's beliefs than to kill for one's survival. At least I would've liked to see the heroes devise a way to protect the Lurmen without violence -- find a happy medium and had the Jedi learn a thing or two from the Lurmen instead of strictly the other way around.

Also, though Takei's scenery-chewing was fun, Lok Durd was too much of a caricatured evildoer, which made the story too black-and-white, stacking the deck so that the Lurmen had no way to survive short of fighting back. Of course, Star Wars has always been a classic space opera, a battle between simplified exemplars of pure good and pure evil. But given that, maybe it's a mistake for them to pretend to address complex, thought-provoking issues. They flirted with making the Lurmen leader a character worth taking seriously in part 1, but here they reduced the issue to the most simple-minded duality imaginable and made him look like an idiot.

Otherwise, my main problem was that there wasn't enough of Aayla Secura in this one.

One thing I noticed: it seemed to me like this episode actually made use of Ahsoka's Togruta abilities. Apparently those hornlike protrusions on her head are sense organs that work by some kind of ultrasonic echolocation. And there were a couple of points where she implicitly seemed to be using that sense -- first when she detected the presence of the probe droid hidden in the grasses, and then when she sensed which way it had gone while they were chasing it. If that is indeed what the writer intended, it's a good way of handling the ability -- it's subtle enough that it doesn't confuse viewers who are unaware of that Togruta ability, but it avoids the sci-fi cliche of having characters explain their abilities or their devices to each other.

 

[Mr Light]

Interesting, I had no idea about that Togruta ability.

Did Lucas' daughter write this episode as well? I forgot to check.

 

[DontFeedPhil]

Is this series new or a couple years old? And when does the animated clone wars movie take place in relation to this?

 

[nx1701g]

^ This is the new series. The Animated Movie was the pilot for this.

 

[DontFeedPhil]

Thanks nx1701g. But wasnt there another clone wars animated series a few years ago? Or is my memory wrong?

 

[JediKnightButler]

Oh, I forgot about the miniature probe droid (nice nod to ESB)

In regards to the cliched nature of the story in regards to pacifism, how might it have been better handled? For me, it's one thing to settle down on an isolated planet hoping to avoid the war and even allow troops to land and walk through your village but to me there doesn't seem to any rational reason to allow myself or the people around me to simply be exterminated. I simply can't imagine everybody willing to allow themselves be obliterated. OTOH I never got the Jonestown cult members or the Heaven's gate cult members willfully offing themselves either.
IMHO it's one thing to purposefully remove oneself from a conflict but it's a whole different thing when that conflict threatens your very life/existence and that of others and that's where I draw the line. If Anakin, Ashoka, Secura, et. al had left at the Lemur's request and allowed them to die at the hands of the Separatists then, sure, they may have been honoring their wishes but the Separatists would've then been able to take their weapon with them, probably produce more of them, and obliterate living beings on countless worlds without there quite possibly being a better opportunity for the Republic forces to destroy that awful weapon, at least not without a much higher cost in casualties. IMHO not only did Anakin, Ashoka, Secura do the courageous thing but also the right thing IMHO. It should also be pointed out that none of them demanded that the Lemur's fight with him against the Separatists and could have won without them probably but it seemed inevitable that at least some of the Lemurs were apparently unwilling to die for their leader's firm beliefs as noble as they may be and joined the battle at the end albeit in a less aggressive way.

 

[Mr Light]

In 2005 there was a Clone Wars "micro-series" of 20 3 minute episodes and 5 longer episodes which was human-animated. This is the 2008 CGI series, which the 2008 CGI movie was the pilot of.

 

[DarthPipes]

I very much enjoyed it. Thought the action was terrific (especially when Anakin and company sneak into the Seperatist ship), the animation amazing once more, and the droid humor was pretty funny. Especially their reaction to the whole weapon thing. Very much enjoyed George Takei's performance. Durd was funny and over-the-top in a good way. I hope he eventually comes back. I agree that the Lemur leader was dumb and cliched.

Looking forward to the snow planet episode next week.

 

[Christopher]

In regards to the cliched nature of the story in regards to pacifism, how might it have been better handled? For me, it's one thing to settle down on an isolated planet hoping to avoid the war and even allow troops to land and walk through your village but to me there doesn't seem to any rational reason to allow myself or the people around me to simply be exterminated. I simply can't imagine everybody willing to allow themselves be obliterated.

Yes, and most people would agree with you. Which is exactly why it would be interesting to explore an alternative point of view. Instead of having the guests come around to the heroes' position, have them stick to their values to the bitter end and leave the heroes -- and the viewers -- with something to think about. Good fiction should challenge our assumptions, not just reinforce them.

OTOH I never got the Jonestown cult members or the Heaven's gate cult members willfully offing themselves either.

That's entirely different. They were under the sway of madmen who sacrificed others for their own self-aggrandizement. This is more like Gandhi's nonviolence movement, a moral choice to give one's own life before taking anyone else's, even that of an enemy. I suggest you do some research into the uses of nonviolent forms of resistance in British-occupied India, in protest movements, and the like. I think there was also a fellow who lived in the Middle East about 2000 years ago and talked about turning the other cheek. He didn't fight back when they came for him.

In 2005 there was a Clone Wars "micro-series" of 20 3 minute episodes and 5 longer episodes which was human-animated. This is the 2008 CGI series, which the 2008 CGI movie was the pilot of.

This series is human-animated too. The computers are just tools used by the human artists. In fact, the 2005 series was digitally animated as well, since traditional cel animation is no longer in use. The main difference is that the former series was in a 2D style and this one is in a 3D style.

 

[DanTheGrey]

I enjoyed this one too. Better than last week's now that they got the scene established, though last week's atmospheric battle should have been in the movies...*sigh*

I thought that infiltrating the base was done well too. As for the overall message, I'll just say that a little black/white good/evil was a nice change since we just watched Battlestar Galactica before that and to be honest CW was almost cheery after that

 

[JediKnightButler]

In regards to the cliched nature of the story in regards to pacifism, how might it have been better handled? For me, it's one thing to settle down on an isolated planet hoping to avoid the war and even allow troops to land and walk through your village but to me there doesn't seem to any rational reason to allow myself or the people around me to simply be exterminated. I simply can't imagine everybody willing to allow themselves be obliterated.

Yes, and most people would agree with you. Which is exactly why it would be interesting to explore an alternative point of view. Instead of having the guests come around to the heroes' position, have them stick to their values to the bitter end and leave the heroes -- and the viewers -- with something to think about. Good fiction should challenge our assumptions, not just reinforce them.

OTOH I never got the Jonestown cult members or the Heaven's gate cult members willfully offing themselves either.

That's entirely different. They were under the sway of madmen who sacrificed others for their own self-aggrandizement. This is more like Gandhi's nonviolence movement, a moral choice to give one's own life before taking anyone else's, even that of an enemy. I suggest you do some research into the uses of nonviolent forms of resistance in British-occupied India, in protest movements, and the like. I think there was also a fellow who lived in the Middle East about 2000 years ago and talked about turning the other cheek. He didn't fight back when they came for him.

You make some great points (and I'm well aware of successful historical uses of non-violence) but I'm not quite sure how Anakin, Ashoka, et. al would've been able to justify non-violence/non-intervention in a situation like this nor be able to live with such a decision. I'm not sure that challenging the conventional wisdom and trying to bring us (the viewer) around to an alternative viewpoint was possible under these kind of circumstances IMHO. I don't know exactly what kind of circumstances might've worked it in better - to make it a REAL serious dilemma- but the existence of the Separatist bio-destroyer weapon made it difficult if not impossible for the Jedi to simply ignore it. Could you imagine Anakin, Ashoka, and Secura reporting to the Jedi Council that they left thus enabling the Separatists to test their new super weapon by exterminating a sentient species simply because they chose not to be protected - and would how such a report have been received? Or would the Jedi council consider such genocide to simply be "the will of the force"?

If you want to talk about an excellent use of challenging people's views, one of the BEST examples is Babylon 5 S1 episode "Believers". THAT particular episode could lead to hours if not days of discussion and has real-life application to everyday life and death medical and religious decisions

 

[nx1701g]

Finally got to watch it but I have to say those droids are just tactically stupid. How could they not have noticed the blue lightsaber blur in some of those scenes?

 

[captcalhoun]

poor visual sensors.

i thought it was great.

someone really should've pointed out to Ahsoka that being out-numbered works in your favour. you have more targets: they have less. they have to worry more about not shooting their own side than you do.

 

[Christopher]

You make some great points (and I'm well aware of successful historical uses of non-violence) but I'm not quite sure how Anakin, Ashoka, et. al would've been able to justify non-violence/non-intervention in a situation like this nor be able to live with such a decision.

Maybe they wouldn't have. But maybe their intervention could've backfired and gotten the Lurmen killed. Or maybe the Lurmen would've been able to come up with a nonviolent way out of the situation and left the Jedi wondering if they were too quick to embrace violence. Or maybe both groups should've just gone their own way, the Jedi and clones fighting and the Lurmen staying peaceful, with both sides taking losses but dying in defense of their own respective values. The story didn't have to end with the Lurmen themselves rejecting their principles in order to keep breathing. If the Jedi and clones have the courage to die defending their beliefs, why can't the Lurmen do the same?

Besides, "in a situation like this" is part of the issue. The writers chose to set up the situation in a way that stacked the deck against pacifism. They could've created a story where peace proved to be the correct solution, or where the ambiguity remained. Instead, they just paid lip service to pacifism and then dismissed it as a folly.

 

[Gojirob]

You make some great points (and I'm well aware of successful historical uses of non-violence) but I'm not quite sure how Anakin, Ashoka, et. al would've been able to justify non-violence/non-intervention in a situation like this nor be able to live with such a decision.

Maybe they wouldn't have. But maybe their intervention could've backfired and gotten the Lurmen killed. Or maybe the Lurmen would've been able to come up with a nonviolent way out of the situation and left the Jedi wondering if they were too quick to embrace violence. Or maybe both groups should've just gone their own way, the Jedi and clones fighting and the Lurmen staying peaceful, with both sides taking losses but dying in defense of their own respective values. The story didn't have to end with the Lurmen themselves rejecting their principles in order to keep breathing. If the Jedi and clones have the courage to die defending their beliefs, why can't the Lurmen do the same?

Besides, "in a situation like this" is part of the issue. The writers chose to set up the situation in a way that stacked the deck against pacifism. They could've created a story where peace proved to be the correct solution, or where the ambiguity remained. Instead, they just paid lip service to pacifism and then dismissed it as a folly.

They could have let the Lurmens shine a bit more, I agree. But if the show's creators want complexity and ambiguity, how about showing us some of the 'heroes on both sides', from the ROTS crawl? They give us the impression that some Separatists just want out of a corrupt, unresponsive, overlarge central government, but all we've seen is the greedy, the monstrous, and annoying droids. I'd say this series is the perfect venue to make that line something other than WTF? fodder.

 

[Tomato]

Loved it!! I think people are forgetting that this is marketed for kids. So a leeway of black and white is forgiven. I'm loving how bad ass Jedis are. For a bunch of peace keepers than can still kick some serious ass. Along with the clone commanders too.

And I loved their tactics, have the Jedi cut through the droids and clones fallback and pick off the stragglers.