Star Wars Books Thread

[WebLurker]

Well, they need to be about something besides two angsty YA characters re-enacting parts of Romeo and Juliet while Forrest Gumping themselves through the OT and Battle of Jakku. But, like I said, I don't want them to do anything more important then that. Two completely useless characters fighting on the outskirts of OT events is the most involved a YA book should ever get. Sticking to "characters" that add literally nothing to the events, and stay out of the books/comics way is what the YA division needs to do. They also need to stop labeling something like Ahsoka YA, because comparing that to what I could stomach of Lost Stars shows how very much Ahsoka is not YA.

I don't tend to put much stock in the labels they put on books; they often pretty arbitrary.

I'd like a good Stormtrooper book. Back when Timothy Zahn was a writer and not Filoni's puppet, he wrote two very good books which split focus between Mara Jade and a group of stormtroopers (the book set before RotJ, so she was still the emperor's hand). The stormtroopers were basically super loyal to the empire, but corruption made them leave service and kind of act like th A-Team, except the still fought for the Empire, just taking out corruption in the Empire from the outside.

Yeah, those were among the better ones (although Choices of One felt a little like a superior remake of the original).

The concept of Inferno Squad is very interesting to me. But Twilight Company was so boring it basically showed the general lack of effort they'll be putting into their video game tie ins, and Christie Golden isn't exactly an interesting author anyway (her only book I've read was a very average Voyager book from back in the numbered pocket book ST novel days).

I've read a few of Golden's Star Wars stuff. She's okay. If the book sounds interesting, you could get it from the library and then just return it if it doesn't suite you, I guess.

Sometimes, but a lot of requests just get rejected with no comment. They did buy Twilight Company on request, but that didn't turn out well.

If they have an interlibrary loan program, that might work better?

I'm not holding my breath. I fully expect the book division to remain the group of brain dead morons they've been since the EU got rebooted. They'll skip any opportunity to publish a book that is both important and an extension of a movie that another movie will never cover. There is no Rogue One 2, the books and comics have seemingly complete freedom to tell stories of the RO characters, at least "freedom" in that the movies are completely done with them.

Evidently the Powers That Be decided that Del Rey's novel program was not the format they wanted for most of their Rogue One tie-ins. Maybe they know something we don't? Also, the movie's less than a year old. Not a lot of time to that much with it. Besides, who's to say that they won't pick it up again in the future?

But, no, they will never publish anything as interesting and useful as a book about the backstories of Jyn or Cassian or Donnie Yen, etc. That's what competent people who care about the SW Universe would do. The book division right now wants its YA money, and it will crap out its (probably contractually obligated) books for people over the age of 13 with the least amount of effort and with generally the most pointless, badly thought out topics. I know its a corporation, but it was a corporation under Lucas, too, and they put 1000 times more effort into everything they did then Disney does. You can just tell how little everyone involved in the book division cares about the universe and characters, and how much of a blatant quick cash grab everything is.

The old EU generally had people with a passion for the universe and characters. It stumbled sometimes, but I never felt, even in the few really bad books, like the people involved didn't care. I think a few new canon authors care, but not nearly all of them and absolutely no one on the production/editing side cares at all. I get they want to make money, but the old EU made money and put out good stuff. They aren't mutually exclusive concepts. Except for the new canon it generally is, and its only because of a lack of caring and general incompetence in my opinion.

First of all, I'm 99% sure that Del Rey and LucasFilm Press are managed by different people and have different programs, so the latter making YA stuff has little to do with former's creative decisions.

Secondly, it's really funny how whenever the writers and other creators are interviewed, they come across as jazzed about being able to work on a chunk of the franchise. I mean, call Timothy Zahn a parrot if you want, but he's remained consistent that he's happy to be back in the game. Regardless of whether the final product is "good," I think it's a fair assessment that most of the people involved care about their work (if nothing else, it's going on their resumes). (Heck, Jason Fry on his blog posted notes about the little YA novel he wrote for TFA. By his own admission, a lot of care was put into outlining and writing the thing, not to mention a host of Easter eggs.)

 

[kirk55555]

I don't tend to put much stock in the labels they put on books; they often pretty arbitrary.

Eh, YA are usually the easiest thing to label, not being that different from each other. Its when books that aren't written in the YA style get labeled YA for marketing purposes that it gets annoying.

I've read a few of Golden's Star Wars stuff. She's okay. If the book sounds interesting, you could get it from the library and then just return it if it doesn't suite you, I guess.

Well, i've done that with every SW book the library has gotten, so I'm sure I will if they actually buy it. If it requires no money or effot to get a hold of the book, I might as well check it out. I even did that for Lost Stars, and it is literally impossible for Inferno squad to be as bad as the 10 or so pages that I read of that garbage, But, I'm still assuming it will just be another pointless, boring excuse for a book like Twilight Company. That's better then LS, but its not good.

If they have an interlibrary loan program, that might work better?

The interlibrary loan is weird, and doesn't really work. The library system is 4 library locations, but the interlibray loan for outside systems usually has a huge delay, you can only do it a certain amount of times per year, and you usually only get the item for a week with no renewals. I'm a fast reader, but none of the books the library hasn't bothered to get are worth going through the hassle of inter library loan for me.

Evidently the Powers That Be decided that Del Rey's novel program was not the format they wanted for most of their Rogue One tie-ins. Maybe they know something we don't? Also, the movie's less than a year old. Not a lot of time to that much with it. Besides, who's to say that they won't pick it up again in the future?

Rogue One's time is over. Most people won't care for anything connected to it next year. As for what they know, they know that kids and the Twilight crowd will buy/have their parents buy things marketed to them without question, so its faster and takes less effort to produce stuff for them.

Secondly, it's really funny how whenever the writers and other creators are interviewed, they come across as jazzed about being able to work on a chunk of the franchise. I mean, call Timothy Zahn a parrot if you want, but he's remained consistent that he's happy to be back in the game. Regardless of whether the final product is "good," I think it's a fair assessment that most of the people involved care about their work (if nothing else, it's going on their resumes). (Heck, Jason Fry on his blog posted notes about the little YA novel he wrote for TFA. By his own admission, a lot of care was put into outlining and writing the thing, not to mention a host of Easter eggs.)

I'm not surprised that people who want to keep getting work act like they care. Liking Star Wars is no more a qualification for writing a SW book then being a competent writer is, from what I can tell. To be fair, maybe the bad writers do like the franchise. I doubt liking or not liking the franchise would effect the work of a Twilight clone author like Claudia Grey (and I'm not being an ass, if you look at her bibliography its all blatant Twilight clone books, complete with supernatural teen romance, and two star Wars books). Zahn might love the series, but he still basically wrote whatever Filoni wanted.

That said, the people running the book division obviously don't, and the bad writers either don't care or are just bad at their job (or a combination of both). Regardless, a lack of competency, quality and passion for the franchise are all pretty obvious with the state of the new canon.

 

[JD]

Fun news for Legends fans, Jaina Solo is getting a new 6'' Black series figure. She is wearing a black pilot's uniform with a helmet and a purple lightsaber. She's the 7th figure down on the list.

 

[kirk55555]

Sure, but even if he doesn't get his own movie, that doesn't mean he won't pop up in whatever TV series we get after Rebels. Rebels already used him in the last season, so we already know they are open to him being on the shows, and we could theoretically still get a cameo from him in Ep IX, that might establish what he's done for the last 30 years.

To be fair, I was just using him as an example. I did supress memories of the bland pilot who could have literally been anyone that they called Wedge on Rebels. Probably because they stole other characters backstory and gave it to him for absolutely no reason, along with him not having any personality on the show whatsoever.

I thought somebody said they already explained why she was in prison in one of the books, and even if they didn't there's nothing to stop them from doing another book about Jyn later.

If they can't be bothered to do it now, its just going to get less and less likely the farther away we get from the movie.

Sounds good to me.

Its fine if you like it. i'd prefer real stories, not toy tie-ins like Phasma or video game tie-ins like Inferno Squad. The anthology is just stupid, you'd think they'd make a charity book out of a good idea not such a terrible, confusing, pointless one. Well, actually, they have very few good ideas, so a bunch of short, stupid stories set around ANH might be their actual best idea for an anthology.

If you don't want me to correct you, then just don't post about it.

My opinion isn't wrong, so you can't "correct" it. I'm not going to stop giving my opinion on YA just because t doesn't match yours.

Fun news for Legends fans, Jaina Solo is getting a new 6'' Black series figure. She is wearing a black pilot's uniform with a helmet and a purple lightsaber. She's the 7th figure down on the list.

Oh, Disney. Erasing great characters, but still trying to use them to get some money from old EU fans. It feels like of tasteless actually, but if it makes a few dollars they're going to do it.

 

[WebLurker]

Eh, YA are usually the easiest thing to label, not being that different from each other. Its when books that aren't written in the YA style get labeled YA for marketing purposes that it gets annoying.

I'm looking at my copy of Ahsoka right now. There's literally nothing to mark it as a YA book, except the section of the store I got it in. Same for most of the other ones I have. Also, I have yet to hear of a "YA style." Cliches common to popular YA series that inspire copy cats, sure. But, at the end of the day, YA just means that it assumes that the average reader of it will be in the teen demographic. Lot of range right there.

Well, i've done that with every SW book the library has gotten, so I'm sure I will if they actually buy it. If it requires no money or effot to get a hold of the book, I might as well check it out. I even did that for Lost Stars, and it is literally impossible for Inferno squad to be as bad as the 10 or so pages that I read of that garbage, But, I'm still assuming it will just be another pointless, boring excuse for a book like Twilight Company. That's better then LS, but its not good.

Time will tell, won't it?

The interlibrary loan is weird, and doesn't really work. The library system is 4 library locations, but the interlibray loan for outside systems usually has a huge delay, you can only do it a certain amount of times per year, and you usually only get the item for a week with no renewals. I'm a fast reader, but none of the books the library hasn't bothered to get are worth going through the hassle of inter library loan for me.

That is weird. In my neck of the woods, it's a lot more flexible.

Rogue One's time is over. Most people won't care for anything connected to it next year.

Why not? If you're a fan of the movie, wouldn't you jump at the chance for more time in it? Historically, the franchise has made new tie-ins years after a movie came out with no problems. Granted we don't know for sure (Del Rey and/or LucasFilm Press may be more focused on building around whatever movie is on deck next), but, we're getting a lot of ANH stuff this year. It does happen. Besides, if they ever do more Rogue One stuff, I'm not going to care about how long it's been. I just want to know where to go to get it.

As for what they know, they know that kids and the Twilight crowd will buy/have their parents buy things marketed to them without question, so its faster and takes less effort to produce stuff for them.

Not everyone. I'm not interested in Twilight (I'd rather watch reruns of Barney the dinosaur), I haven't been a kid for years now, and I've gotten a bunch of the younger book stuff. I don't even have kids either; every singe scrap of Star Wars stuff I've ever gotten I got for me. I like this world and, honestly, I've found that the more enjoyable stuff isn't always made by Del Rey anymore. You get a lot more stuff with original characters, tell stories beyond the main saga where things don't have to line up just so, and sometimes, more creativity.

Also, I did minor in creative writing in college. So, while not a published author, I can testify that even a simple book does take a lot of effort to put together in the writing stage. If any pro authors can confirm or refute that, I'd like to hear. But, anyways, there's no easy way to make books. Also, I read modern YA stuff sometimes. Star Wars does it better than most, from my experiences.

I'm not surprised that people who want to keep getting work act like they care.

They could be telling the truth, too.

Liking Star Wars is no more a qualification for writing a SW book then being a competent writer is, from what I can tell. To be fair, maybe the bad writers do like the franchise. I doubt liking or not liking the franchise would effect the work of a Twilight clone author like Claudia Grey (and I'm not being an ass, if you look at her bibliography its all blatant Twilight clone books, complete with supernatural teen romance, and two star Wars books).

LucasFilm and Del Rey are a professional business. It's in their best interests to find the best writers possible. That may not always work, but they have no motivation to slack off.

Zahn might love the series, but he still basically wrote whatever Filoni wanted.

It sounds like Zahn was mostly left to his own devices, just needing to make sure that he was consistent with the TV show (which is to be expected, anyways). Filoni has also gone on record that they consider Zahn to be the master of writing Thrawn (as I recall, when they were showing him early footage, they were hoping that it met Zahn's approval). Besides, Del Rey, not LucasFilm Animation, were the ones that Zahn would've been working for.

That said, the people running the book division obviously don't, and the bad writers either don't care or are just bad at their job (or a combination of both). Regardless, a lack of competency, quality and passion for the franchise are all pretty obvious with the state of the new canon.

I don't know. To be honest, I think that LucasFilm has been managing a better balance of quality than they were a few years ago. Subjective, to be sure, but there it is. It seems like they have a plan going forward rather than just making things up as they go (like Legends sometimes did). We're also getting a level of interconnectivity that we never have before. No complaints from this end.

Fun news for Legends fans, Jaina Solo is getting a new 6'' Black series figure. She is wearing a black pilot's uniform with a helmet and a purple lightsaber. She's the 7th figure down on the list.

Cool. I just might get one.

[Edit: Wait, are these the regular-sized Black figures, or the mini ones?]

Oh, Disney. Erasing great characters, but still trying to use them to get some money from old EU fans. It feels like of tasteless actually, but if it makes a few dollars they're going to do it.

It's not tasteless. Legends is hardly gone. It's still kept in print, its inspiring new stories, starwars.com occasionally has an article about Legends content, etc. Besides, at the end of the day, even if there are two continuities, there's only one franchise. Besides, aren't there Jaina fans who might want to have a figure for their shelf or desk?

 

[JD]

The article is about 6'' figures, I'm not sure if those are the large or small ones. I don't usually spend that kind of money on stuff like this, but I Jaina was one of my favorite parts of the NJO books I read, so I might just have to make an exception in her case.

My opinion isn't wrong, so you can't "correct" it. I'm not going to stop giving my opinion on YA just because t doesn't match yours.

Yes it is, yes I will, and I'm not going to stop either.

More news, IDW is going to be teaming up with Lucasfilm to be publish a new all line of all ages Star Wars comics. I'm really confused about how this is even happening, wouldn't Marvel's license cover stuff like this along with the stuff their already publishing?
So would this be the first time Star Trek stories and Star Wars stories have come from the same company at the same time? I know Marvel did do both at one time or another, but I don't they were ever at the same time

 

[Trek Survivor]

IDW do a lot of work with/for Marvel - they will also be publishing Duck Tales and Tangled comics.

 

[Mike Farley]

It's been almost 40 years, but in the wake of Star Trek The Motion Picture Marvel published a short lived Trek comic that ran concurrently with its Star Wars book.

 

[kirk55555]

I'm looking at my copy of Ahsoka right now. There's literally nothing to mark it as a YA book, except the section of the store I got it in. Same for most of the other ones I have. Also, I have yet to hear of a "YA style." Cliches common to popular YA series that inspire copy cats, sure. But, at the end of the day, YA just means that it assumes that the average reader of it will be in the teen demographic. Lot of range right there.

That's what I was saying about Ahsoka. It doesn't have the YA cliches, and except for being a bit of a shorter story that was formatted in a way to make the book bigger (double line spacing, etc) its not really a YA book. Which is why I mentioned it being YA for marketing purposes, instead of being YA in writing style like Lost Stars.

Why not? If you're a fan of the movie, wouldn't you jump at the chance for more time in it? Historically, the franchise has made new tie-ins years after a movie came out with no problems. Granted we don't know for sure (Del Rey and/or LucasFilm Press may be more focused on building around whatever movie is on deck next), but, we're getting a lot of ANH stuff this year. It does happen. Besides, if they ever do more Rogue One stuff, I'm not going to care about how long it's been. I just want to know where to go to get it.

I know I want more, but I think the upcoming movie is always going to get the focus, with side movies like Rogue One probably not getting much after they're done. RO has gotten less then nothing (Catalyst being the less) even when it was new, I can't imagine it will be getting the stories it desperately needs years down the road.

Not everyone. I'm not interested in Twilight (I'd rather watch reruns of Barney the dinosaur), I haven't been a kid for years now, and I've gotten a bunch of the younger book stuff. I don't even have kids either; every singe scrap of Star Wars stuff I've ever gotten I got for me. I like this world and, honestly, I've found that the more enjoyable stuff isn't always made by Del Rey anymore. You get a lot more stuff with original characters, tell stories beyond the main saga where things don't have to line up just so, and sometimes, more creativity.

I don't enjoy kids books. I wasn't even overly fond of them when I was a kid, and I took to reading normal general audience books (of all types, not just SW) around the 4th/5th grade. Enjoyment is subjective of course, but books written for little kids, while less infuriating then the average YA book, are way too simplistic for me, and generally are just non canon little stories for kids, which is fine. Little kids need something too, but its not relevant to the other stuff.

LucasFilm and Del Rey are a professional business. It's in their best interests to find the best writers possible. That may not always work, but they have no motivation to slack off.

They have absolutely no motivation to put effort into what they do. The brand makes money based off the name, and if the new canon was making money based on its quality alone it would be at a huge loss at this point. They generally just shove out whatever a fast, presumably cheap writer can produce in the SW license, with the few good books being a nice exception that probably just flew under their radar.

It sounds like Zahn was mostly left to his own devices, just needing to make sure that he was consistent with the TV show (which is to be expected, anyways). Filoni has also gone on record that they consider Zahn to be the master of writing Thrawn (as I recall, when they were showing him early footage, they were hoping that it met Zahn's approval). Besides, Del Rey, not LucasFilm Animation, were the ones that Zahn would've been working for.

I've already said what I think of Zahn (I think he's either a liar or a moron that got wowed by Filoni). If Filoni gave a crap about Zahn or Thrawn, he wouldn't have created his own character and stole Thrawn's name/appearance for it.

I don't know. To be honest, I think that LucasFilm has been managing a better balance of quality than they were a few years ago. Subjective, to be sure, but there it is. It seems like they have a plan going forward rather than just making things up as they go (like Legends sometimes did). We're also getting a level of interconnectivity that we never have before. No complaints from this end.

The old EU connected quite a bit. Also, when the connections are to crap like Rebels, its not a good thing.

It's not tasteless. Legends is hardly gone. It's still kept in print, its inspiring new stories, starwars.com occasionally has an article about Legends content, etc. Besides, at the end of the day, even if there are two continuities, there's only one franchise. Besides, aren't there Jaina fans who might want to have a figure for their shelf or desk?

To me its basically like exploiting a dead person at this point. Its not inspiring new stories, its a place for crap writers to steal things and make them worse (that a lot of what Filoni does, steal old EU stuff and ruin it). As for being kept in print, if it will make Disney a few bucks they'll exploit it into the ground. They get to make crappy books, and make money off the older good books at the same time. Its a win-win for them.

 

[fireproof78]

Fun news for Legends fans, Jaina Solo is getting a new 6'' Black series figure. She is wearing a black pilot's uniform with a helmet and a purple lightsaber. She's the 7th figure down on the list.

I'm excited for this one, and I usually don't buy the six inch line.

Why not? If you're a fan of the movie, wouldn't you jump at the chance for more time in it? Historically, the franchise has made new tie-ins years after a movie came out with no problems. Granted we don't know for sure (Del Rey and/or LucasFilm Press may be more focused on building around whatever movie is on deck next), but, we're getting a lot of ANH stuff this year. It does happen. Besides, if they ever do more Rogue One stuff, I'm not going to care about how long it's been. I just want to know where to go to get it.



Not everyone. I'm not interested in Twilight (I'd rather watch reruns of Barney the dinosaur), I haven't been a kid for years now, and I've gotten a bunch of the younger book stuff. I don't even have kids either; every singe scrap of Star Wars stuff I've ever gotten I got for me. I like this world and, honestly, I've found that the more enjoyable stuff isn't always made by Del Rey anymore. You get a lot more stuff with original characters, tell stories beyond the main saga where things don't have to line up just so, and sometimes, more creativity.

Also, I did minor in creative writing in college. So, while not a published author, I can testify that even a simple book does take a lot of effort to put together in the writing stage. If any pro authors can confirm or refute that, I'd like to hear. But, anyways, there's no easy way to make books. Also, I read modern YA stuff sometimes. Star Wars does it better than most, from my experiences.



They could be telling the truth, too.



LucasFilm and Del Rey are a professional business. It's in their best interests to find the best writers possible. That may not always work, but they have no motivation to slack off.



It sounds like Zahn was mostly left to his own devices, just needing to make sure that he was consistent with the TV show (which is to be expected, anyways). Filoni has also gone on record that they consider Zahn to be the master of writing Thrawn (as I recall, when they were showing him early footage, they were hoping that it met Zahn's approval). Besides, Del Rey, not LucasFilm Animation, were the ones that Zahn would've been working for.



It's not tasteless. Legends is hardly gone. It's still kept in print, its inspiring new stories, starwars.com occasionally has an article about Legends content, etc. Besides, at the end of the day, even if there are two continuities, there's only one franchise. Besides, aren't there Jaina fans who might want to have a figure for their shelf or desk?

I personally would rather read a YA Star Wars book, than most books out there. They are fun, simply and quick reads, even as an adult. I don't care if it connects or doesn't connect to the larger story, or whatever. I just want a good story, and that can occur at any age range.

So, I'm with you.

 

[WebLurker]

That's what I was saying about Ahsoka. It doesn't have the YA cliches, and except for being a bit of a shorter story that was formatted in a way to make the book bigger (double line spacing, etc) its not really a YA book. Which is why I mentioned it being YA for marketing purposes, instead of being YA in writing style like Lost Stars.

Really funny story. I like following a Star Wars podcast talk show that reviews and discusses the non-movie materials. The hosts gave favorable reviews to both Lost Stars and Ahsoka. However, they did take the opposite view you did. In their opinion, Lost Stars was, to use your terms, a GA book that was misbranded as a YA book, while Ahsoka was a well-written YA book that was kind of obvious that it was YA. It's all subjective, to be sure, but I kind of agree; Ahsoka did fell a little thinner in comparision. But that's me.

Moral of the story: We all process this stuff differently.

I know I want more, but I think the upcoming movie is always going to get the focus, with side movies like Rogue One probably not getting much after they're done. RO has gotten less then nothing (Catalyst being the less) even when it was new, I can't imagine it will be getting the stories it desperately needs years down the road.

Fair enough that new movies will probably get priority, but it remains to be seen how R1 fits in. It was very well received and could become a fan favorite of sorts. Also, as the first Anthology movie, it's too early to tell how future storytelling will utilize it. (Also worth noting, because of the way the movie's story was told, there's not a lot of room for expansion, like how the Sequel Trilogy could theoretically extend Rey and Finn's stories beyond Episode 9, if allowed to. I mean, Jyn only lived to be 22, so that's about eight-ish years with Saw's outfit, and about six years as a criminal wandering the Galaxy.)

Taking all tie-ins as equal (both the Del Rey books, the reference material, and YA material) Rogue One got a similar amount of exposure as Force Awakens did. Also, given that the new Forces of Destiny TV miniseries (and related merchandising) will be including Jyn Erso (and will be canonical), we're not done with R1 material just yet.

I don't enjoy kids books. I wasn't even overly fond of them when I was a kid, and I took to reading normal general audience books (of all types, not just SW) around the 4th/5th grade. Enjoyment is subjective of course, but books written for little kids, while less infuriating then the average YA book, are way too simplistic for me, and generally are just non canon little stories for kids, which is fine. Little kids need something too, but its not relevant to the other stuff.

I think stuff needs to be judged on its own terms. For example, is the Adventures in Wild Space series as complex in narrative as say something for older readers (like the Join the Resistance series), much less a Del Rey novel like Lords of the Sith? No. But is it good for its audience age? That's the question I think needs to be asked. Also, I think someone can appreciate something like that on its own terms, regardless of if they're the target audience.

They have absolutely no motivation to put effort into what they do. The brand makes money based off the name, and if the new canon was making money based on its quality alone it would be at a huge loss at this point. They generally just shove out whatever a fast, presumably cheap writer can produce in the SW license, with the few good books being a nice exception that probably just flew under their radar.

Resumes/professional calling cards? Job security? Personal motivation?

I've already said what I think of Zahn (I think he's either a liar or a moron that got wowed by Filoni). If Filoni gave a crap about Zahn or Thrawn, he wouldn't have created his own character and stole Thrawn's name/appearance for it.

Literary and TV criticism has a great deal of subjectivity, with different people drawing different conclusions (and having different standards of what they find acceptable and what they don't). So, with that in mind, isn't fare more likely that Zahn and Filoni simply disagree with you because, between their different backgrounds and the subjective nature of the subject. (Also, if one was to argue the question that Thrawn was gotten wrong in canon in a objective fashion, Zahn and Filoni would be more credible witnesses than a couple of fans hashing it out on a forum.

The old EU connected quite a bit.

Not saying it didn't. It did.

Also, when the connections are to crap like Rebels, its not a good thing.

There's no getting around it, any more than Legends had with it's awful stuff.

To me its basically like exploiting a dead person at this point. Its not inspiring new stories, its a place for crap writers to steal things and make them worse (that a lot of what Filoni does, steal old EU stuff and ruin it). As for being kept in print, if it will make Disney a few bucks they'll exploit it into the ground. They get to make crappy books, and make money off the older good books at the same time. Its a win-win for them.

Guess you can see it as exploitation or as them keeping something relevant rather than pretending it never existed. I mean, I don't think the average fan of the character is going to care, just happy that it exists. Also, as long as it's out, new fans could get into Legends as well. That's what's needed to keep it relevant going forward.

 

[JD]

Just because somebody makes a decision you don't agree with or wrote something you didn't like doesn't mean they are incompetent or not trying.
I think for me a perfect example of this would be the comic book Saga, I didn't like it, but I can also still acknowledge that it is a very well done comic. The creators simply made some creative choices that just weren't for me.
Yes, there are bad books, movies, TV shows, comics, ect. but just because something wasn't to your taste doesn't automatically mean it's bad. Personal taste and quality are two different things.
Just out of curiosity Kirk, have you ever read or watched something that you didn't like that you still acknowledge is good, or is everything you don't like automatically bad and made by incompetents?

 

[kirk55555]

Just out of curiosity Kirk, have you ever read or watched something that you didn't like that you still acknowledge is good, or is everything you don't like automatically bad and made by incompetents?

Your rude question doesn't really deserve a response, but what the heck. I don't generally watch something unless I'm pretty sure I'll like it or I'm interested in the source material/franchise, so my opinions tend to either be good or bad, not "good but I don't like it". I just don't watch media or read books like that.

But, there are video games and comics where I've had that. I can acknowledge that, for example, the Dark Souls games are well made, but its not a style of game that I like. With comics, a good example is the current Ms. Marvel. I can acknowledge that its a well written book that is very important to the universe and has done an important thing by showing that a well made diverse character can become popular and sell well. But, I can't stand Kamala Khan's fangirl personality, so I don't read the book. But, its not a bad comic at all, just not for me.

So, when it comes to things that could be "good, but not for me", basically never in books or movies for me, but a decent amount of that stuff for me in video games and not uncommon in the comic book realm. It also never happens in the Star Wars franchise, in case your wondering.

 

[JD]

I know I was sarcastic, but it was an honest question and I appreciate that you gave an honest answer.

 

[kirk55555]

Fair enough that new movies will probably get priority, but it remains to be seen how R1 fits in. It was very well received and could become a fan favorite of sorts. Also, as the first Anthology movie, it's too early to tell how future storytelling will utilize it. (Also worth noting, because of the way the movie's story was told, there's not a lot of room for expansion, like how the Sequel Trilogy could theoretically extend Rey and Finn's stories beyond Episode 9, if allowed to. I mean, Jyn only lived to be 22, so that's about eight-ish years with Saw's outfit, and about six years as a criminal wandering the Galaxy.)

Honestly, I'm not looking for expansion. A single book or story establishing backstory relevant to the movie for Jyn, Cassian, etc is what I want. I want to know where K2 is from, why Jyn was in jail, where Donnie Yen and his friend came from and what they did before the Empire destroyed their order, etc. I know the characters don't really have a big time frame to set stories in, I just want some general audience stories to explain the stuff I think would make the characters more three dimensional and interesting, and not just random people who got the death star plans.

Taking all tie-ins as equal (both the Del Rey books, the reference material, and YA material) Rogue One got a similar amount of exposure as Force Awakens did. Also, given that the new Forces of Destiny TV miniseries (and related merchandising) will be including Jyn Erso (and will be canonical), we're not done with R1 material just yet.

I thought the new cartoon was stated as non-canonical? Regardless, it looks like its targeting people younger then the 7-8 year olds of Rebels, so I doubt much will come of it. As for how much TFA got, its the first movie in a trilogy and it actually bothered to give characterization to its main characters, so a lack of general audience books connected to it isn't such a big deal.

I think stuff needs to be judged on its own terms. For example, is the Adventures in Wild Space series as complex in narrative as say something for older readers (like the Join the Resistance series), much less a Del Rey novel like Lords of the Sith? No. But is it good for its audience age? That's the question I think needs to be asked. Also, I think someone can appreciate something like that on its own terms, regardless of if they're the target audience.

Kids books might be entertaining for kids. Maybe they're even high quality kids books. I'd guarentee that every single one of them is better then Lost Stars at the very least. That doesn't make them relevant or particularly canon.

Resumes/professional calling cards? Job security? Personal motivation

None of that has shown in the quality of the work. Besides, a lot of terrible writers have had very successful careers, and people like Claudia Grey were already making a career out of terrible books.

Literary and TV criticism has a great deal of subjectivity, with different people drawing different conclusions (and having different standards of what they find acceptable and what they don't). So, with that in mind, isn't fare more likely that Zahn and Filoni simply disagree with you because, between their different backgrounds and the subjective nature of the subject. (Also, if one was to argue the question that Thrawn was gotten wrong in canon in a objective fashion, Zahn and Filoni would be more credible witnesses than a couple of fans hashing it out on a forum.

Filoni is no more the deicder of quality then any fan. As for Zahn, the fact that he wrote a character named Thrawn that in no way (other then superficial) resembles his actual character shows where he stands. He's either a sell out or an idiot. I don't really care why he's just a yes man for Filoni at this point, but the result is someone whose opinion on SW is not relevant to anything.

As for Filoni, he has absolutely no respect or care for the franchise or any character he didn't create (and based on what he did to Ahsoka, he doesn't even like the characters he did create). I don't know if Filoni is lazy and greedy or an ego maniac, but he's done more damage to star Wars then Lucas ever did, and Lucas drove parts of it into the ground.

There's no getting around it, any more than Legends had with it's awful stuff.

I don't recall Legends connecting everything to a few crappy stories. heck, the EU did a fairly good job of, without retconning them, pushing away bad stories (all the fallout of that terrible Dark nest trilogy were so blatantly pushed aside in the time skip in the next books/event that it felt like an apology for even publishing those books in the first place).

Guess you can see it as exploitation or as them keeping something relevant rather than pretending it never existed. I mean, I don't think the average fan of the character is going to care, just happy that it exists. Also, as long as it's out, new fans could get into Legends as well. That's what's needed to keep it relevant going forward.

The old EU is dead. I love it, but its not relevant. If Disney liked it, they'd follow its style more and would publish books that resembled it more. Its irritating that they can make money off it while all their new products do nothing but steal from the old EU, while doing the stolen things worse and just generally insulting the old EU.

 

[fireproof78]

Since we know nothing of Filoni other than what he says I prefer to take him at his word rather than slander him.

 

[Ithekro]

It is also entirely possible that Jyn Erso could show up in the Han Solo movie, and that would be a reason for her not to have a novel yet. Cassian would likely show up in Rebels Season Four, and also explain why he doesn't have a book yet. They would have people already writing stories for them, so the novelist don't get to step their until the other projects are done first.

 

[JD]

I've never seen anything from Filoni to make me doubt that he's a huge fan, and that isn't trying to make the best show possible. You might not like the show, but that doesn't mean Filoni & Co. aren't working their asses off to the show. The insulting of people like Filoni and Zahn is totally unnecessary, if you don't like the show and the books fine, but that doesn't give you the right to insult the creators, especially in a place where they aren't present and can't defend themselves. I'm almost finding myself tempted to copy all of Kirk's insulting posts and see if I can find Filoni, Claudia Grey, Jennifer Heddle, ect. on Facebooks and see if they'll willing to defend themselves.

 

[fireproof78]

I've never seen anything from Filoni to make me doubt that he's a huge fan, and that isn't trying to make the best show possible. You might not like the show, but that doesn't mean Filoni & Co. aren't working their asses off to the show. The insulting of people like Filoni and Zahn is totally unnecessary, if you don't like the show and the books fine, but that doesn't give you the right to insult the creators, especially in a place where they aren't present and can't defend themselves. I'm almost finding myself tempted to copy all of Kirk's insulting posts and see if I can find Filoni, Claudia Grey, Jennifer Heddle, ect. on Facebooks and see if they'll willing to defend themselves.

I wouldn't mind a panel like that.

 

[kirk55555]

I'm almost finding myself tempted to copy all of Kirk's insulting posts and see if I can find Filoni, Claudia Grey, Jennifer Heddle, ect. on Facebooks and see if they'll willing to defend themselves.

That is extremely screwed up. Now, i'd say all that to Filoni's face if I was magically in a room with him, but you have no right to take any of my posts and use it that way. I don't go insult him on facebook or twitter or anywhere but here because I don't do that kind of thing, I don't specifically go after people like some nutjob. I talk on an internet forum, if he was a forum goer and saw it I'd have an argument with him with no hesitation, but that's it. I'll talk shit about him and what I think about him whenever I want, just because you like him doesn't mean he's some untouchable person.

Also, I have all the right I want to insult assholes like Filoni. Its been said to death by nboth ormal people and assholes, but there is a first amendment in the country I reside in (the United States, obviously). You can talk bullshit about "slander", but I doubt Filoni is going around sueing people who don't like him, especially when their words don't cause any noticeable harm to him and any legal accusation of "slander" would be thrown out immediately. He probably has people say this stuff on twitter/facebook all the time. I'm probably fairly tame when it comes down to it, if for no other reason then I just talk about it in conversation and don't try to go after people on social media.

You've completely crossed a line with this. i'm honestly curious to see if there is a Trekbbs rule about taking people's posts and spreading them offsite. If there is no rule specifically for that, it would probably still count as you harassing me. You've gone from arguing to threatening.