I might need to pick up a copy now.
Star Wars Books Thread
- Thread starter Mr Light
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That sourcebook was the first one I got, ironically, at Disneyland. Still have it. Still has the price tag with the mouse on it. I didn't paly roleplaying games then, don't really much now, but got it for the information. I was I think ten at the time and got me back into a Star Wars spirit after shifting to a Star Trek spirit for the previous few years. Though by 1990 or 1991 I was into a mixed spirit of both at the same time.
Fair enough. I think those season one episode were the character's only Clone Wars appearances.
And what's wrong with that?
As I understand it, the reason they borrow these things is because they like the Legends tie-ins. As I understand it, the B-wing backstory was only featured in the RPG.
Thrawn was included in the series because they wanted to use him and felt that the time was right (the Rebellion was finally enough of a threat that it would warrant Thrawn's attention). Also, they nailed the characterization exactly, so I'd argue that they do care.
Okay, that makes sense. I guess I always got the impression that Ackbar had been making the blueprints and assembling it himself, for some reason.
It was his job, so it makes sense he would be making ships, including ones that the Rebels would want to use.
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That's possible. I had no idea he was a TCW character when I started reading Lords of the Sith. The ryloth arc really didn't stick with me.
And I'd say they didn't "get" him at all, and Rebels just has a cliched "smart" bad guy who is nothing like Thrawn except in the most superficial way. Oh, and he also likes to look at art, because that was the only part of the real Thrawn they could simplify enough for the 5 year old audience of the show to understand while also using it to pretend they actually give a crap about the real character
"See, nerds? He looks at pictures and suddenly knows a ridiculous amount of things! He could probably tell you what Hera had for dinner last night based off a random family portrait made when she was about 10. That means he's the real Thrawn and you won't call us out on how crap he actually is, right?".
Stuff like that definitely shows how little influence Filoni had over A New Dawn. The book could never have turned out as good as it is if he had much to do with it. It gives me hope for Timothy Zahn's Thrawn novel. If a book starring Filoni's cardboard cut outs turned out to be pretty good despite him, the Thrawn book could easily be great. Timothy Zahn legitimately cares about Thrawn as a character, and the story group has shown it won't let Filoni shove his garbage on book writers, even when the book is about his characters. So, I've moved from hopeful to excited. Someone cares about Thrawn, ut it certainly isn't anyone associated with Rebels.
It never felt that way to me in the old EU, and they did mention him working with others on the B-Wing.
Building a fighter in a galaxy with an Empire that probably frowns on doing that, while living on a planet almost no one can safely navigate and having no plans to sell or give away the design is his job?
I'll admit that eccentric inventors are definitely a thing, but it seems a bit too out there. Having the B-Wing come about because a Rebellion/military needed a new fighter for certain missions makes more sense then some random ship designer building a fighter because he can.Again, the B-Wing episode, in my opinion, is the closest the show ever got to a good episode. Its the one Rebels episode I'd rewatch without someone putting a gun to my head. But, that doesn't mean I don't think its new B-Wing backstory is more complicated and makes less sense then the ole EU backstory.
I'm more annoyed by the fact that the B-Wing and the A-wing have already made appearances in Rebels, while, in old EU, they made appearances after the Battle of Yavin.
I don't have a problem with a random guy developing a fighter. It's not like the Rebel Alliance is the only one with a grudge against the Empire, and the Alliance would need help in developing weapons without Imperial oversight, especially in this period of time.
I don't have a problem with a random guy developing a fighter. It's not like the Rebel Alliance is the only one with a grudge against the Empire, and the Alliance would need help in developing weapons without Imperial oversight, especially in this period of time.
Okay.
By your own admission, you stopped watching the show before Thrawn actually appeared, so you really don't have any knowledge of how the character turned out in execution.
Um, no, having seen the character in action, its an extremely good adaptation of the personality and skills set of the original Thrawn, down to good observations and playing the long game. Also, if the character was a bad adaptation, why wouldn't those of us who think so call it out?
Since Filoni also managed Clone Wars, I'd take that as evidence that he can do good storytelling.
Hmm.
Rebels is a pretty important part of canon, so I don't think the Story Group is limiting it. If anything, we've seen a lot of Rebels influence outside of the TV show, so it's obviously being "shoved on" others, to use your terminology. Also, as I understand it, the Story Group's job is largely to assist writers in making the best Star Wars material possible and helping maintain uniformity, not policing everyone.
Weird; on the behind the scenes online videos for the Rebels show (Rebels Recon) with Thrawn, a very clearly made point was that the people working on the show made getting Thrawn right a high priority (and got the stamp of approval from Timothy Zahn himself in regards to the final product) and were really jazzed to have a change to use the character. So, regardless of whether the actual stories are good or not, the people on Rebels do care about Thrawn and trying to do the character justice.
Fair enough.
Building a fighter in a galaxy with an Empire that probably frowns on doing that, while living on a planet almost no one can safely navigate and having no plans to sell or give away the design is his job?
Again, the B-Wing episode, in my opinion, is the closest the show ever got to a good episode. Its the one Rebels episode I'd rewatch without someone putting a gun to my head. But, that doesn't mean I don't think its new B-Wing backstory is more complicated and makes less sense then the ole EU backstory.
I'd have to see the show again; my memory of the fine details is pretty rusty.
Why is that?
I think the fact that they included Thrawn at all in Rebels is rather amazing, especially since they started out with a lot more original villains that had not really been seen before, like ISB agents and Inquisitors with lightsabers. For good or ill, it was interesting for them to use old EU characters and give them a more canon status.
Now, I'll counter my own argument that in the new lore, it does fit with the fact that neither ship really seems to fit prior Alliance designs. So, the idea that it was developed by an outside engineer works for me as well.
Primarily because I saw the X-Wings and Y-Wings to be holdovers from the Clone Wars era, with the X-Wings being the newer models to the Rebel Alliance. However, as the Civil War continued, the Imperials developed better fighters to counter Rebel fighters, like the Interceptor. In response, the Alliance developed the A-Wing and B-Wing. So, it felt like an arms race between two powers.
Now, I'll counter my own argument that in the new lore, it does fit with the fact that neither ship really seems to fit prior Alliance designs. So, the idea that it was developed by an outside engineer works for me as well.
The thing is, both the A-wing and B-wing appeared in Star Wars: Droids, while the Y-wings and X-wings did not. I know and use to be able to recite all the details of the creation of the A-wing and B-wing as laid out in the old West End Games materials, which ignored the cartoons Droids and Ewoks entirely. In the nearly thirty years since then, a lot has happened. A lot of things have come into and out of canon. Most of the video games have the Rebels using the A-wing prior to Yavin, but the B-wing is still new in all versions.
So the explanation by the Story Group? What we are seeing is one Rebel group. This group uses A-wings for the most part, which seems to be a fighter based on Clone War's era designs like the V-wing and the older Jedi Starfighters. Likely it was built in competition with the TIE Fighter, but the mass production quality of the TIE wins out the military contract. That and the A-wing has hyperdrives, which seem to be against regular Imperial fighter practices. The A-wings likely become something of a planetary defense force fighter, or something smaller governments could get while all the TIE production was going to the Empire. Other Rebel groups, like General Dodonna's, which is mentioned recently in Rebels, uses X-wings and the recently acquired Y-wings. Unless they are actually still using Z-95 Headhunters and we'll see the thief of the X-wings later on. But the Rebels had a lot of X-wings at Yavin, with just a handful of Y-wings.
Phoenix Group seems to lose a lot of A-wings anyway.
The Ace TIE piltot's Interceptor had a bunch of kill mark on his cockpit. Several of them looked like either X-wing or Z-95 Headhunters (which name If I recall came from the first Han Solo novel). So someone has been using these type against the Empire, just not the group we are following. The TIE Interceptor here could still be designed to counter the Rebel A-wings. The old version was that the A-wing was designed for speed due to the TIEs being able to kill X-wings and Y-wings at Yavin. The TIE Interceptor was designed to be able to both catch the A-wings, and equal the firepower of the X-wings. It falls short of both counts (no missile tubes, no shields, and just a tad slower than the A-wing), but is still a good fighter compared to the older TIE models. The TIE Defender on the other hand, was designed to be superior to the Rebel fighters in all ways.
So the explanation by the Story Group? What we are seeing is one Rebel group. This group uses A-wings for the most part, which seems to be a fighter based on Clone War's era designs like the V-wing and the older Jedi Starfighters. Likely it was built in competition with the TIE Fighter, but the mass production quality of the TIE wins out the military contract. That and the A-wing has hyperdrives, which seem to be against regular Imperial fighter practices. The A-wings likely become something of a planetary defense force fighter, or something smaller governments could get while all the TIE production was going to the Empire. Other Rebel groups, like General Dodonna's, which is mentioned recently in Rebels, uses X-wings and the recently acquired Y-wings. Unless they are actually still using Z-95 Headhunters and we'll see the thief of the X-wings later on. But the Rebels had a lot of X-wings at Yavin, with just a handful of Y-wings.
Phoenix Group seems to lose a lot of A-wings anyway.
The Ace TIE piltot's Interceptor had a bunch of kill mark on his cockpit. Several of them looked like either X-wing or Z-95 Headhunters (which name If I recall came from the first Han Solo novel). So someone has been using these type against the Empire, just not the group we are following. The TIE Interceptor here could still be designed to counter the Rebel A-wings. The old version was that the A-wing was designed for speed due to the TIEs being able to kill X-wings and Y-wings at Yavin. The TIE Interceptor was designed to be able to both catch the A-wings, and equal the firepower of the X-wings. It falls short of both counts (no missile tubes, no shields, and just a tad slower than the A-wing), but is still a good fighter compared to the older TIE models. The TIE Defender on the other hand, was designed to be superior to the Rebel fighters in all ways.
Yeah, I do. I've seen the clips they've posted. It clearly shows they screwed him up exactly as I knew they would. Its the same saturday morning cartoon "genius" villain that's been around since long before I was born, but on Rebels he has blue skin and likes making huge leaps in logic while looking at random paintings.
Because we all have different opinions? People generally don't give as much of a crap about this stuff as I do, and let things go that I won't.That's not a knock, but I don't give any leeway when it comes to Thrawn, or really anything like that.
TCW could be great, but it could be absolutely terrible. Based on rebels, I'd put the Jar Jar and Droids episodes on filoni, and the great episodes on other writers. TCW was also rated for an older audience, and wasn't run by Disney. It also, I presume, had at least a partially different team. There are a lot of things that make TCW situation different then Rebels.
The story group's job is to do what Disney wants them to do. Also, Rebels has had literally no effect on most of the books, and none of the movies. Lords of the Sith had Hera's Dad, but that was a tie in to TCW. Dark Disciple was just TCW. Tarkin had nothing. Rebels is a cartoon for little kids, its not the foundation of a franchise made for a general audience.
Or they're lying. I can do that, too. For example, I could say:
"Rebels is an amazing show, and is in no way a cheaply made pile of garbage run by people who seem to actively hate the franchise".
I could say that, and tell you that was my opinion. I would be lying, just like the Rebels people lie. To be fair, some of them might just be extremely incompetent, but I'd put Filoni down as a liar, with a side order of lazy jerk just cashing a paycheck. They either aren't capable or don't want to make a good show or use characters well. Their priority is to shove out something with lightsabers and explosions to keep kids in front of the tv for 22 minutes a week. You could read between the lines and say they also actively hate both Star Wars fans and especially the successful parts of the franchise that they didn't make, but that's admittedly just a theory and not something they've stated.
As for Zahn, he's a writer by profession. He'd probably say Dave Filoni was the greatest visionary that ever lived if it meant he'd still get work. I don't hold that against him, its his job. Its like when actors give interviews about how good their latest movie is, but it ends up being trash and they probably knew that. Again, people lie, especially when its either lie or annoy people who give you work.
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TIE fighters of all variants (save the TIE Advanced) are designed for mass production and overwhelming numbers. Very much, as you say, good companion ships for regular TIES, to provide the sheer numbers to overwhelm enemy targets.
As to the history, I did not know that about the Droids series, and also will freely admit that the chronology I read may have been old. Personally, I prefer Y-Wings, but seeing how the other starfighters come to be in the Alliance is great as well.
As to the history, I did not know that about the Droids series, and also will freely admit that the chronology I read may have been old. Personally, I prefer Y-Wings, but seeing how the other starfighters come to be in the Alliance is great as well.
Both of those had been seen before.
Could you refresh my memory as to where? Wookiepedia failed me, but I at least know which class I want for my next Old Republic Character
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Thank you 
I need to read Coruscant Nights anyway
I need to read Coruscant Nights anyway
I have no doubt. It's always interesting to see book concepts reworked to fit in to a TV show format, or another writer's take on a concept. I didn't like Kanan at first (and really, still don't) so I would be curious to read that book and see how that Jedi character was presented.
Okay. Having seen the full episodes, I think it all makes sense in context (and thus far in Rebels, Thrawn has always won), but fair enough that you've seen bits and pieces and don't like it.
What specifically doesn't work about the character on the show? Blanket statements are fine for getting opinions across, but not so helpful for understanding the reasoning behind it.
Like I said, I find it to be a very accurate depiction of the original character.
Okay, all kidding aside, in Legends, Thrawn made plenty of magical deductions from paintings. The farther down you go, the more magical they become, to the point where he was more or less a Mary Sue of observation and planning. Having seen the episode in question, Thrawn's actions and chains of reasoning are actually a lot more rational than some of the stuff he was doing in Legends.Since the TV show is adapting the character, does it need to be 100% the same?
Not sure about all the shows, but the D-Squad episodes were largely George Lucas's idea; "A Sunny Day in the Void" was a show he wanted to make, at least.
Not all of them.
And it practice, Disney hasn't been micromanaging.
The show is also resolving a lot of unanswered questions left over from The Clone Wars.
A few of the episodes tie into the Death Star's construction, making them part of the build-up to Rogue One that can be picked out of the franchise ("The Honorable Ones" also retroactively foreshadows Vader's trip to Geonosis in the Darth Vader comic series). The Servants of the Empire series has massive ties to Rebels, with Zare Leonis appearing in a couple Rebels episodes (that advance his book's story), and the Ghost's crew appearing in the final novel. Lothal has factored into the Adventures in Wild Space series. Lothal's Imperial Academy is mentioned in Lost Stars. Ezra Bridger's role in sending off the message in "A Call to Action" was referred to in the Beware the Dark Side! novelization of ROTJ. The novel Ahsoka has ties to the series with the Inquisitors becoming involved (as well as acting as an origin story for some bits of the TV show). Hondo Onaka's appearance on Freemaker Adventures owed more to his Rebels apperances than his Clone Wars ones (if I recall correctly). The Lasat massacre even slipped into the Legends book Imperial Handbook!
On top of that, there have been several tie-in books and series; There was the New Dawn prequel novel (which also affected some of the short stories in that Rise of the Empire omnibus). Kanan had a comic series. Ezra starred in his own book, Ezra's Gamble. There have been replica journals for both Sabine and Ezra, a la the Survival Guide and Flight Log tie-ins Rey and Poe got. There's an official magazine with short comic stories. The entirety of season one has been novelized.
Beyond print, part of Star Wars's online materials included an entire Holonet "news" broadcast that tied into the show. Some of the Rebels characters have been given action figures in the Star Wars Black toy line. Rebels characters were among the very few Star Wars characters to be represented in the late Disney Infinity video game and got their own DLC bonus content for the Lego Star Wars: The Force Awakens game (not to mention their own Lego toys).
So, no, it's actually having a pretty big impact for a couple-years-old show and has had a stronger reception from the fanbase than Clone Wars did when it first started out.
Logical fallacy; I never said that, nor does have any relevance to the discussion.
Libel is never a valid tool for reasoning, debate, or discussion.
Has it ever occurred to you that A). he might be a better judge of the accuracy of Rebels Thrawn than any of us are and B.) that he could be conceivably telling the truth as he sees it?
Sorry, I'll keep that in mind for future posts.
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