Star Wars Books Thread

[fireproof78]

Ha ha ha no.

Quoted for truth.

Fine.
If you don't like something somebody makes, that's fine say it's bad all you want, but if all you are basing things on is their work then you don't have a basis for taking things to a personal level. If you had actually been basing the comments on them as a person, based on something they said at a con or in an interview, or even during a personal interaction, I wouldn't be as bothered by it. I've never heard or seen Filoni or any of the cast or crew of either Rebels or TCW say anything that I found upsetting or offensive, and I have never heard second hand about anything like that.
I've also never seen or heard anybody involved with the shows say anything that would make me doubt that they were fans, if anything it's been the opposite. The fact that they are changing things when they bring in Legends content in doesn't mean they hate it, the fact that they are choosing to use it all shows that they like it.

I largely agree with this point, but especially the bolded part. I have been critical of the PT trilogy, but I would not go so far as to attack Lucas or anyone who worked on the films personally (and I know one). Same thing with Abrams and his Star Trek films, etc, etc. I simply don't know these people enough to hate them or call the liars or question their commitment to the franchise.

No matter what I think or feel about the final product, book, film, TV show, etc, it's never personal. It can't be-the production team doesn't know me, and I don't know them.

 

[kirk55555]

Fine.
If you don't like something somebody makes, that's fine say it's bad all you want, but if all you are basing things on is their work then you don't have a basis for taking things to a personal level. If you had actually been basing the comments on them as a person, based on something they said at a con or in an interview, or even during a personal interaction, I wouldn't be as bothered by it. I've never heard or seen Filoni or any of the cast or crew of either Rebels or TCW say anything that I found upsetting or offensive, and I have never heard second hand about anything like that.
I've also never seen or heard anybody involved with the shows say anything that would make me doubt that they were fans, if anything it's been the opposite. The fact that they are changing things when they bring in Legends content in doesn't mean they hate it, the fact that they are choosing to use it all shows that they like it.

I'd think that if they liked SW, they'd work hard to make a good show and use the pre-existing characters well. They don't even bother to make actual characters out of the people they've created, and they don't put any effort into the non-Rebels characters, either. The pre-existing characters are all just used to bring in fans who otherwise wouldn't bother with the show. If they can sell a few action figures of the real SW characters based off of the Rebels designs, or get a few more people viewing an episode to impress advertisers, then they'll use a pre-established character. Or if they want to show how super awesome ezra is, they'll bring in an old character.

That's my opinion. maybe if they'd ever done a single good episode, I ight believe they had even one competent person, or at least one person who likes the SW franchise and had passion for it. As it is, I honestly believe its mostly just a paycheck for everyone involved, and no effort is put in to the show and no decent creative people (aka writers, etc) working on it.

 

[Ithekro]

I'd think that if they liked SW, they'd work hard to make a good show and use the pre-existing characters well. They don't even bother to make actual characters out of the people they've created, and they don't put any effort into the non-Rebels characters, either. The pre-existing characters are all just used to bring in fans who otherwise wouldn't bother with the show. If they can sell a few action figures of the real SW characters based off of the Rebels designs, or get a few more people viewing an episode to impress advertisers, then they'll use a pre-established character. Or if they want to show how super awesome ezra is, they'll bring in an old character.

That's my opinion. maybe if they'd ever done a single good episode, I ight believe they had even one competent person, or at least one person who likes the SW franchise and had passion for it. As it is, I honestly believe its mostly just a paycheck for everyone involved, and no effort is put in to the show and no decent creative people (aka writers, etc) working on it.

I still do not see how this conclusion has been reached as it seem the farthest from what it actually happening with this show and Lucasfilm in general. Considering that this is more or less the same production team that worked onThe Clone Wars since 2008. Also most pre-established characters, if they are even used with Ezra at all, are used to show just how underwhelming he can be. Darth Vader ragdolls him twice. Thrawn stunned him. Tarkin had not really seen him. Ahsoka completely outclassed him. Lando swindled him. Leia consoled him and clearly was more impress with Kanan's Force powers than Ezra's failed attempts to impress.

The novels going forward will likely make use or reference some of the events in Rebels, so there is that to consider.

 

[WebLurker]

The Clone wars elements just pissed me off that the garbage show was brining in stuff from the much better show and ruining it

I vehemently disagree, but fair enough.

I was talking about the important stuff, although I suppose I should have been specific.

I still feel like goalposts are being moved, but if this was your original intent, okay. My big question for you would be, why does it have to be "important" to matter? The TV show is telling a different story from the one in the movies. Why do any of the tie-ins have be "important" to outside material to matter in and of themselves?

rebels has no effect on any thing that is legitimately important to the new canon.

Except Clone Wars and how we perceive the later movies. (For that matter, neither did the Clone Trooper novels back in the day.) Also, see above.

Also, Rey's Survival Guide is of literally no importance, same with Before the Awakening.

Hold that thought.

They're only "canon" in that nothing they say is important enough to be contradicted (although Episode VIII could easily contradict any of the stuff if they felt like it).

A.) That's not how the Force works, and B.) if you're right, then the same applies for the adult material that you've labeled as "all-important."

Nothing in Before the Awakening or the stupid "survival guide" is important or even noteworthy.

Okay, first off, did you even read the books, because if not, then I'm not sure how much credibility your opinion has.

Now, the Survival Guide opens with Rey saying: "I don't know how I got here [on Jakku] or why." The Survival Guide is the only place where this is stated and that line is very important. It establishes that Rey has no idea who she is. This throws a whole new light on the comment to BB-8 that she's a "big secret," means that when she saw the Force vision of her being left on Jakku that it was the first time she "saw"/remembered the event. Heck, it even means that if she found her family, she'd be depending on them being able to identify her for the reunion to work. Without reading that book, a viewer as a vastly different (mis)understanding of Rey's backstory. So, yeah, important. (And as a bonus, we not only get to more info on what her life was like, we also get to see Jakku through Rey's eyes.)

Before the Awakening answered and provided a lot of context to many of the questions the viewers of Force Awakens had (since the simple answers are kind of easy to miss in the film proper). What was the political situation in the Galaxy? How did Rey learn to fly ships so well? How was Finn able to chose to defect so "easily"? We also get insights into the characters that affect the movie (for example, the book highlights why the friendship between Finn and Rey means so much to both of them and Poe is developed beyond the cool ace the movie shows.)

So, yeah, I'd say noteworthy, at least. They certainly expand the movie's world by a huge margin, more so than any of the adult stuff did.

Because Star Wars merchandises everything. There are action figures for background characters that show up for three seconds. There are action figures for the alien cameos George Lucas and his family played in the prequels. Rebels was created to make five year olds buy toys and merchandise, of course they're trying to sell stuff connecyted to it, that is the only reason it exists. A cheap, lazy, poorly done show to sell toys, just like He-Man and dozens of other mediocre cartoons over the years.

They don't do Ewoks and Droids. A lot of the really obscure stuff is one-and-dones. Rebels has had a pretty wide representation on the market. While Star Wars may sell, it also has to be Star Wars that people want. Ergo, it makes sense that there's a demand for Rebels merchandise, which means that people like the show.

It was mentioned in Darth Vader first, in April 2015, 10 months before Rebels mentioned it in an episode that aired February 2016. So, Rebels took it from Vader, not the other way around.

So? The two stories still work together to make a unified whole.

They lie to make money. They know they have a garbage show made for 5 year oldsbut adults buy a lot of Star Wars stuff, so they pretend like they put any effort or care about the franchise so that it makes them look good to the people who have their own money to buy SW stuff. As for what evidence? Their show is the worst (official) Star Wars related thing ever made.

They're either lying, or the most incompetent people ever.

A.) You have provided zero evidence, only an opinion (and one not shared by fans and many critics). B.) When boiled down, your argument is essentially circular reasoning: "They make an awful show and lie about it and we know that they're lying because the show is awful."

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that you don't have evidence. You've only stated your opinions and made bizarre theories, which are not facts. If you don't like the show, fine, but can we please stop with the conspiracy theories here and limit the discussion to the established facts?

I'm not saying that.

I can't see any difference.

That's specifically why I said he was lying, or is overly impressed by the cartoon so his bar for what is good is very low.

Are you even hearing yourself here? This's exactly what I'm talking about.

No, he could be basing his impression on what he expects of a cartoon character. He probably never expected to ever see an animnated Thrawn, so would probably be impressed that it looks better then the kids shows of the 50s/early 60s he would have seen as a kid. Or, like I said, he's just lying.

That's a lot of supposition, given that there's no evidence that Zahn is comparing it to old cartoons and accusing him of lying because he (apparently) disagrees with you is hardly a good argument. (Once again, reality instead of conspiracy theories, please?)

I'm not insulting anyone I'm having a conversation with, people have the right to their own opinion even if we disagree.

Dude, I have had more respectful discussions before on stuff I disagree with, so I think you can do better (as I probably could).

As for Filoni, I'll insult him until the day he stops working on SW.

Not cool. It's fair to say you don't like their work, but accusing them of lying is not polite and uncalled for without evidence.

As for the Y7, its strictly for violence, but story content wise its a show for 5 year olds. It just has more violence to bring more people in. I definitely wouldn't call it a "dark" show. Its a show about a bunch of kids cartoon cliches and stuff like space whales. Ezra being angsty and some Y7 violence isn't really make the show "dark".

And I'll call bullshit on it every time you do. That completely pole vaults over the line of what's acceptable to me, and I'm not going to let it slide.

That's your choice. I personally don't think you get to decide what's acceptable to talk about in a conversation, but whatever makes you happy, I guess. It doesn't really matter to me, and won't change how I talk about things

I'm going to second JD; I don't think it's acceptable either. (And even if you were right, there are ways to talk about it and still be respectful.)

Every time I see an article, a YouTube video, every time some idiot bashes the EU-I just love it more and more and more and more intently, each and every day. I just want it back so badly, so passionately so intensely, I feel like a franchise so near and dear to me has left m weeping in the dust and crying into the void.

I just want it back so badly, I get angry when an idiot columnist says the Vong were a generic alien invasion or that "hey it gave us Kylo Ren" That piece of dirt is nothing but a cheap and pale reflection of a much superior character and story-Jacen Solo-my favorite EU character.

I just want it so badly, I miss it so badly, I just love it harder and harder every day it goes by.

Hey, good for you that you're still enjoying it. I've found more enjoyment in the new stuff, but the there were some really good stuff in Legends. Suffice to say, the two coexist on my bookshelf and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I do have to admit that Jacen Solo never did anything for me, so I do like Kylo Ren a lot more (I'm one of those who found TFA to be more than worth ending Legends for). But that's just my opinion.

 

[Ithekro]

I was more following Jaina Solo than Jacen, and had been hoping for more from Anakin Solo, but that fell short. We'll see if Rey is a suitable replacement for Jaina in the canon.

But really I was more interesting in what the Heroes of Yavin were doing and the adventure of Rogue Squadron.

 

[Reverend]

I was more following Jaina Solo than Jacen, and had been hoping for more from Anakin Solo, but that fell short. We'll see if Rey is a suitable replacement for Jaina in the canon.

But really I was more interesting in what the Heroes of Yavin were doing and the adventure of Rogue Squadron.

Just my personal tastes, but I was always dissatisfied with Jania as a character. In theory, she seemed very interesting, but they never seemed to really do anything with her. Plus it's always a bit of a red flag for me when the only source of drama they can think of for a young female character is which boy she want's to end up with...
She's not alone in that, as I always felt that one of the persistent problems with the old EU was it's unwillingness to move too far away from the core OT characters. As a result, a lot of new characters never escaped their shadow and came into their own.

Which is something they're immediately doing better in the new trilogy by having Leia being a supporting character, Han being the mentor/Kenobi character and Luke being more of an idea that an actual character so far. Rey & Finn do not feel overshadowed IMO.

 

[Mr Light]

I'm a massive EU fan, but I never felt a connection to Jaina. Her personality never gelled with me, and like someone said a large part of her "arc" was choosing between two men. She was never charming the way Han or Leia were. Just... angry.

 

[Ithekro]

I stopped reading the EU novels regularly during the middle of the Vong War, which I think was before Jaina's shipping war started. That was after Anakin's fate was decided and while Jacen was being non-committal about what the Jedi meant to the galaxy and spent most of his time questioning everything about it.

 

[JD]

I'd think that if they liked SW, they'd work hard to make a good show and use the pre-existing characters well. They don't even bother to make actual characters out of the people they've created, and they don't put any effort into the non-Rebels characters, either. The pre-existing characters are all just used to bring in fans who otherwise wouldn't bother with the show. If they can sell a few action figures of the real SW characters based off of the Rebels designs, or get a few more people viewing an episode to impress advertisers, then they'll use a pre-established character. Or if they want to show how super awesome ezra is, they'll bring in an old character.

That's my opinion. maybe if they'd ever done a single good episode, I ight believe they had even one competent person, or at least one person who likes the SW franchise and had passion for it. As it is, I honestly believe its mostly just a paycheck for everyone involved, and no effort is put in to the show and no decent creative people (aka writers, etc) working on it.

Everything the people behind Rebels has ever said or done has made it crystal clear that none of this is true.

 

[Skywalker]

Ahsoka was pretty good. Putting my thoughts in spoilers since it's a new release.

Spoiler

It was a quick but good read. I was a little confused about the timeline though because for most of the book I was under the impression that the events of the story were set only like a year after ROTS, but then in the latter parts of the book it seemed like at least several years had passed. It seemed unlikely to me that there would already be fully-trained Inquisitors patrolling the galaxy just a year after the Clone Wars, not to mention Bail Organa's proto-rebels using A-wing fighters thirteen years before Rebels. Maybe Ahsoka spent more time on Raada than I thought, but it felt like she was only there for a few weeks before the Empire arrived.

The little interludes between certain chapters were pretty nice, particularly the one with Obi-Wan. Although all that really did was make me want an "Obi-Wan on Tatooine" movie even more.

I still really like the new canon explanation for lightsaber colors. It's just so much more interesting and satisfying than "bad guys have red, good guys have blue and green, except for that one good guy who has purple." I also thought it was a nice touch that the crystals for Ahsoka's new lightsabers came from the ruins of the Sixth Brother's dual-bladed lightsaber, and I loved that she essentially cured the crystals of the Inquisitor's dark influence, turning them into a stark, purified white. I just think the new canon's take on kyber crystals has been a really strong addition to the lore.

Onward to the next book. Since I've already read Lords of the Sith, that'll be Tarkin.

 

[Reverend]

Everything the people behind Rebels has ever said or done has made it crystal clear that none of this is true.

For some reason I am reminded of this passage from a Discworld novel concerning a certain clock obsessed character...

"He had never been interested in stories, at any age, and had never quite understood the basic concept. He’d never read a work of fiction all the way through. He did remember, as a small boy, being really annoyed at the depiction of Hickory Dickory Dock in a rag book of nursery rhymes because the clock in the drawing was completely wrong for the period.

He tried to read Grim Fairy Tales. They had titles like “How the Wicked Queen Danced in Red-Hot Shoes!” and “The Old Lady in the Oven.” There was simply no mention of clocks of any sort in any of them. Their authors seemed to have a thing about not mentioning clocks."

I wonder what could possibly have brought this to mind.

Ahsoka was pretty good. Putting my thoughts in spoilers since it's a new release.

Spoiler

It was a quick but good read. I was a little confused about the timeline though because for most of the book I was under the impression that the events of the story were set only like a year after ROTS, but then in the latter parts of the book it seemed like at least several years had passed. It seemed unlikely to me that there would already be fully-trained Inquisitors patrolling the galaxy just a year after the Clone Wars, not to mention Bail Organa's proto-rebels using A-wing fighters thirteen years before Rebels. Maybe Ahsoka spent more time on Raada than I thought, but it felt like she was only there for a few weeks before the Empire arrived.

Spoiler: Ahsoka

No, you were right the first time, the story starts exactly a year after order 66 covers a period of no more than 6-8 months I'm guessing.
The idea that A-wings were new at the time of RotJ is a relic of the old EU. The intent now seems to be that there much older. Possibly even pre-Clone Wars give that it seems unlikely a peaceful world like Alderaan would have easy access to the latest fighter craft. At least not without drawing attention. Indeed, for all we know the designs could just as easily be centuries old as they could be from a few decades back.

Spoiler

The little interludes between certain chapters were pretty nice, particularly the one with Obi-Wan. Although all that really did was make me want an "Obi-Wan on Tatooine" movie even more.

Spoiler: Ahsoka

I'm a bit unclear if those were really just chapter interludes or whether they were what she dreamt about. They all seemed to be thematically connected with the subsequent chapters in some fashion. Force visions might be overstating it, so "force whispers" perhaps?

Spoiler

I still really like the new canon explanation for lightsaber colors. It's just so much more interesting and satisfying than "bad guys have red, good guys have blue and green, except for that one good guy who has purple." I also thought it was a nice touch that the crystals for Ahsoka's new lightsabers came from the ruins of the Sixth Brother's dual-bladed lightsaber, and I loved that she essentially cured the crystals of the Inquisitor's dark influence, turning them into a stark, purified white. I just think the new canon's take on kyber crystals has been a really strong addition to the lore.

Onward to the next book. Since I've already read Lords of the Sith, that'll be Tarkin.

Spoiler: Ahsoka

It certainly makes them feel more special. One detail I found interesting is that the felt familiar to her. It's possible they here from her original lightsabers or from someone at the temple she once knew. The latter seems more likely and much less of an unlikely coincidence. You'd think if it was the former it would have been much more explicit.

 

[Skywalker]

Spoiler: Ahsoka

No, you were right the first time, the story starts exactly a year after order 66 covers a period of no more than 6-8 months I'm guessing.
The idea that A-wings were new at the time of RotJ is a relic of the old EU. The intent now seems to be that there much older. Possibly even pre-Clone Wars give that it seems unlikely a peaceful world like Alderaan would have easy access to the latest fighter craft. At least not without drawing attention. Indeed, for all we know the designs could just as easily be centuries old as they could be from a few decades back.

Spoiler

Yeah, I knew they're no longer new at the time of ROTJ since they've shown up multiple times in Rebels, I just assumed they were recent-ish fighters the Rebellion basically cobbled together from salvaged parts from the Clone Wars or before, so it seemed odd that Organa's people would already have them in Ahsoka. I think it wouldn't have bugged me as much if there'd just been some kind of mention of where they came from, or if they were using salvaged Republic fighter craft, since this was the very early days for the Rebellion. Not a big deal, though.

Another thing that made me wonder about the timeline, but I forgot to mention in my last post, was Leia. A couple of references by Bail made it seem like Leia was a few years older, such as when he was just finishing up an audio-only call with her in the last chapter, when he told her video/holo calls weren't as secure, and then asked her to tell her mother he'd see them both soon. But Leia should only be about a year old by this point.

 

[fireproof78]

Hey, good for you that you're still enjoying it. I've found more enjoyment in the new stuff, but the there were some really good stuff in Legends. Suffice to say, the two coexist on my bookshelf and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I do have to admit that Jacen Solo never did anything for me, so I do like Kylo Ren a lot more (I'm one of those who found TFA to be more than worth ending Legends for). But that's just my opinion.

The bolded part 1000%. I cannot fathom the place of not being able to enjoy before Legends and the new canon. It's both Star Wars to me. One does not cease to be enjoyable because the other exists.

 

[JD]

I'm planning on reading both the new canon and Legends. I still haven't read a lot of the Legends stuff, and the canonacity doesn't really matter to me, I just want good Star Wars stories. It could also be really interesting to compare the two, and see how they are similar and how they are different.

 

[Reverend]

Spoiler

Yeah, I knew they're no longer new at the time of ROTJ since they've shown up multiple times in Rebels, I just assumed they were recent-ish fighters the Rebellion basically cobbled together from salvaged parts from the Clone Wars or before, so it seemed odd that Organa's people would already have them in Ahsoka. I think it wouldn't have bugged me as much if there'd just been some kind of mention of where they came from, or if they were using salvaged Republic fighter craft, since this was the very early days for the Rebellion. Not a big deal, though.

Spoiler

The fact that Ahsoka appears is instantly recognise them without remarking further seems to indicate she's already quite familiar with them. So it makes sense that they were reasonably common place during the Clone Wars, if not exactly old or particularly top of the line.
My personal feeling is that they're meant for police or local militias. It would explain how easily Bail got his hands on them and why we never saw them among the Republic forces. That also gels with the notion that they're fast but lightly armed and shielded interceptors. Judicial forces would need pursuit craft to deal with smugglers, pirates, fugitives and the like.

Spoiler

Another thing that made me wonder about the timeline, but I forgot to mention in my last post, was Leia. A couple of references by Bail made it seem like Leia was a few years older, such as when he was just finishing up an audio-only call with her in the last chapter, when he told her video/holo calls weren't as secure, and then asked her to tell her mother he'd see them both soon. But Leia should only be about a year old by this point.

Spoiler

The thing to remember about Leia is that as mentioned in the book, she's the child of *two* prodigies. I can tell you from experience that even for an average baby, one year old is enough to be up and walking, or at the very least, toddling. For someone with Leia's genetics? Starting to talk at that age is not out of the question (normally it's more like 18 months to a year.)
Also consider that the book mentions that young force sensitives often have singular skills that makes them stand out, even untrained. With Ahsoka herself it was her ability to sense a person's true nature (a special trait shared with Yoda as revealed in 'Dark Disciple'), with Anakin it was his fast reflexes and one can assume Luke had a similar ability.
We can't be sure what Leia's special skill might be (assuming she has one) but a preternatural empathy and understanding of the world around her seems about right.

I'm planning on reading both the new canon and Legends. I still haven't read a lot of the Legends stuff, and the canonacity doesn't really matter to me, I just want good Star Wars stories. It could also be really interesting to compare the two, and see how they are similar and how they are different.

I've still yet to pick up the old 'KotOR' & 'Republic' comic book lines from Dark Horse and still fully intend to do so one of these days. Likewise, it doesn't matter to me in the slightest that they might contradict of be contradicted elsewhere.

 

[Voth commando1]

I stopped reading the EU novels regularly during the middle of the Vong War, which I think was before Jaina's shipping war started. That was after Anakin's fate was decided and while Jacen was being non-committal about what the Jedi meant to the galaxy and spent most of his time questioning everything about it.

You haven't read Traitor have you?

 

[kirk55555]

I still feel like goalposts are being moved, but if this was your original intent, okay. My big question for you would be, why does it have to be "important" to matter? The TV show is telling a different story from the one in the movies. Why do any of the tie-ins have be "important" to outside material to matter in and of themselves?

They don't have to be important. but, they have to be good, and not ruin other stuff. Rebels is a terrible show that won't stay self contained and has to drag a bunch of the real SW stuff down with it.

Except Clone Wars and how we perceive the later movies. (For that matter, neither did the Clone Trooper novels back in the day.) Also, see above.

Rebels doesn't change anything about TCW or the movie.

A.) That's not how the Force works, and B.) if you're right, then the same applies for the adult material that you've labeled as "all-important."

No, the adult stuff is the core of the universe outside of the movies. The movies come out once a year, the adult books get several releases a year that follow their own arena of the universe and fill stuff in. How they effect each other is, to me, the important stuff that builds the universe, even more then the movies. Not everything has to effect everything else, but when something important happens that does effect stuff, its in a general audience book.

Now, the Survival Guide opens with Rey saying: "I don't know how I got here [on Jakku] or why." The Survival Guide is the only place where this is stated and that line is very important. It establishes that Rey has no idea who she is. This throws a whole new light on the comment to BB-8 that she's a "big secret," means that when she saw the Force vision of her being left on Jakku that it was the first time she "saw"/remembered the event. Heck, it even means that if she found her family, she'd be depending on them being able to identify her for the reunion to work. Without reading that book, a viewer as a vastly different (mis)understanding of Rey's backstory. So, yeah, important. (And as a bonus, we not only get to more info on what her life was like, we also get to see Jakku through Rey's eyes.)

I got that immediately just from my first viewing of the movie. It was really obvious that she wouldn't be able to tell who her family was if they were standing in front of her, and that she'd been on Jakku so long she basically didn't remember anything before it.

Before the Awakening answered and provided a lot of context to many of the questions the viewers of Force Awakens had (since the simple answers are kind of easy to miss in the film proper). What was the political situation in the Galaxy? How did Rey learn to fly ships so well? How was Finn able to chose to defect so "easily"? We also get insights into the characters that affect the movie (for example, the book highlights why the friendship between Finn and Rey means so much to both of them and Poe is developed beyond the cool ace the movie shows.)

Again, that stuff was either obvious or unimportant. Rey can fly a ship for the same reason a 10 year old Anakin was the best podracer pilot, a combo of natural skills and the force. Finn was obviously a good guy who never conformed to the brainwashing, and he eventually was ordered to do something he couldn't do, so he decided to leave. Finn/Rey's friendship was done fairly well in the movie, and Poe/Finn's friendship, while underdeveloped really didn't need more development.

So, yeah, I'd say noteworthy, at least. They certainly expand the movie's world by a huge margin, more so than any of the adult stuff did.

I either got all that stuff from the movie, or (in my opinion) it was not noteworthy and the same fluff I'd expect kids books to "add".

They don't do Ewoks and Droids. A lot of the really obscure stuff is one-and-dones. Rebels has had a pretty wide representation on the market. While Star Wars may sell, it also has to be Star Wars that people want. Ergo, it makes sense that there's a demand for Rebels merchandise, which means that people like the show.

Obessive SW fans and little kids like toys. He-Man sold a lot of merchandise, too. Doesn't mean it was a quality show.

Not cool. It's fair to say you don't like their work, but accusing them of lying is not polite and uncalled for without evidence.

Well they say one thing, but do another. That's about as obvious a definition for "lying" as I know.

Everything the people behind Rebels has ever said or done has made it crystal clear that none of this is true.

And I completely disagree. To me, everything they've done and said has formed and supported my opinion of them as incompetent liars out to make some money in the cheapest, laziest way they can get away with.

 

[Voth commando1]

I vehemently disagree, but fair enough.



I still feel like goalposts are being moved, but if this was your original intent, okay. My big question for you would be, why does it have to be "important" to matter? The TV show is telling a different story from the one in the movies. Why do any of the tie-ins have be "important" to outside material to matter in and of themselves?



Except Clone Wars and how we perceive the later movies. (For that matter, neither did the Clone Trooper novels back in the day.) Also, see above.



Hold that thought.



A.) That's not how the Force works, and B.) if you're right, then the same applies for the adult material that you've labeled as "all-important."



Okay, first off, did you even read the books, because if not, then I'm not sure how much credibility your opinion has.

Now, the Survival Guide opens with Rey saying: "I don't know how I got here [on Jakku] or why." The Survival Guide is the only place where this is stated and that line is very important. It establishes that Rey has no idea who she is. This throws a whole new light on the comment to BB-8 that she's a "big secret," means that when she saw the Force vision of her being left on Jakku that it was the first time she "saw"/remembered the event. Heck, it even means that if she found her family, she'd be depending on them being able to identify her for the reunion to work. Without reading that book, a viewer as a vastly different (mis)understanding of Rey's backstory. So, yeah, important. (And as a bonus, we not only get to more info on what her life was like, we also get to see Jakku through Rey's eyes.)

Before the Awakening answered and provided a lot of context to many of the questions the viewers of Force Awakens had (since the simple answers are kind of easy to miss in the film proper). What was the political situation in the Galaxy? How did Rey learn to fly ships so well? How was Finn able to chose to defect so "easily"? We also get insights into the characters that affect the movie (for example, the book highlights why the friendship between Finn and Rey means so much to both of them and Poe is developed beyond the cool ace the movie shows.)

So, yeah, I'd say noteworthy, at least. They certainly expand the movie's world by a huge margin, more so than any of the adult stuff did.



They don't do Ewoks and Droids. A lot of the really obscure stuff is one-and-dones. Rebels has had a pretty wide representation on the market. While Star Wars may sell, it also has to be Star Wars that people want. Ergo, it makes sense that there's a demand for Rebels merchandise, which means that people like the show.




So? The two stories still work together to make a unified whole.



A.) You have provided zero evidence, only an opinion (and one not shared by fans and many critics). B.) When boiled down, your argument is essentially circular reasoning: "They make an awful show and lie about it and we know that they're lying because the show is awful."

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that you don't have evidence. You've only stated your opinions and made bizarre theories, which are not facts. If you don't like the show, fine, but can we please stop with the conspiracy theories here and limit the discussion to the established facts?



I can't see any difference.



Are you even hearing yourself here? This's exactly what I'm talking about.



That's a lot of supposition, given that there's no evidence that Zahn is comparing it to old cartoons and accusing him of lying because he (apparently) disagrees with you is hardly a good argument. (Once again, reality instead of conspiracy theories, please?)



Dude, I have had more respectful discussions before on stuff I disagree with, so I think you can do better (as I probably could).



Not cool. It's fair to say you don't like their work, but accusing them of lying is not polite and uncalled for without evidence.








I'm going to second JD; I don't think it's acceptable either. (And even if you were right, there are ways to talk about it and still be respectful.)



Hey, good for you that you're still enjoying it. I've found more enjoyment in the new stuff, but the there were some really good stuff in Legends. Suffice to say, the two coexist on my bookshelf and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I do have to admit that Jacen Solo never did anything for me, so I do like Kylo Ren a lot more (I'm one of those who found TFA to be more than worth ending Legends for). But that's just my opinion.

If you didn't read traitor and love Jacen we don't have any common ground to stand on-that was an amazing book by an amazing author with an amazing ending.

 

[JD]

They don't have to be important. but, they have to be good, and not ruin other stuff. Rebels is a terrible show that won't stay self contained and has to drag a bunch of the real SW stuff down with it.



Rebels doesn't change anything about TCW or the movie.



No, the adult stuff is the core of the universe outside of the movies. The movies come out once a year, the adult books get several releases a year that follow their own arena of the universe and fill stuff in. How they effect each other is, to me, the important stuff that builds the universe, even more then the movies. Not everything has to effect everything else, but when something important happens that does effect stuff, its in a general audience book.

Honestly, I think the comics are actually more important to the overall universe than the books have been. They seem to be giving us a lot bigger stories focused on the core OT characters, while the books seem to be smaller more personal side stories.

And I completely disagree. To me, everything they've done and said has formed and supported my opinion of them as incompetent liars out to make some money in the cheapest, laziest way they can get away with.

But what exactly has lead you to believe they are lying and lazy, I'm talking about exact quotes that can be proven as absolutely, 100% concrete lies, or proof that they are lazy. I'm not just talking about stuff you don't like, I'm talking about stuff that can be absolutely scientifically proven as lies. I'll admit the lazyness thing might be harder to prove, but if they're lying then that should be easy to prove. And I'm not talking about them saying something will be great and then you not liking it, that is just differences of opinion, unless you can prove they knew it was bad. And don't say it's obviously bad, because a lot of people seem to be liking it and if it was really obviously bad nobody would like it.
I understand you don't like the show, but just because you don't like the way things turn out doesn't mean they're lying or aren't trying, all it means is that they are doing things you don't like. I don't have a problem with you not liking the show, I will still disagree with you, but you taking things to a personal level with the people responsible for the shows takes me from disagreeing to being seriously pissed the hell off.

 

[kirk55555]

And I'm not talking about them saying something will be great and then you not liking it, that is just differences of opinion, unless you can prove they knew it was bad.

I think that counts. They're always talking big, about how they're fans and about how great their stuff is. But, the end result is characters completely mistreated and a generally crappy show. They can't say they're going to do Thrawn right, and then use him the way they've been doing. I'll admit its partially incompetence, but they know their own lack of quality. So, yeah, they're basically lying in every video and interview they do. Not unusual lies (wjhat terrible TV show has people working on it that will admit to it being garbage?) but still lying. The end result is everything I need for evidence. I'm not trying to convince anyone else, I'm just stating my opinion. I don't really care if some people like the show. I like Power Rangers, so I know that people like stuff that other people think is stupid/terrible. That doesn't mean I won't call it out as being a terrible insult to the SW franchise, it just means I'm not trying to change anyone else's opinion.

Also, you really have to back up the "A lot of people seem to be liking it". I don't have numbers, but I'd bet its not doing anywhere near as well in the ratings as TCW did.

Back on topic for a second, I finished A New Dawn. Overall, it was a good book that was really only held back by having to shove the two Rebels cliches into the story. The writer did the best he could, but no one could make Mentor cliche or generic rebel cliche into actual characters. He managed to make them tolerable though, which makes him the best writer to ever work on something connected to Rebels (a tremendously low bar to pass, I'll admit). If the story had been about, say, Luke/Han/Leia it would have been great. As it is, it was very good despite its forced Rebels connection. I'm glad I read it, I just wish it could have explored the story with strong SW characters. Still, a decent villain and supporting cast managed to carry the cliches through the story well enough. Hopefully the writer of this book will get to write some more SW novels without being saddled with the impossible task of having to use any of the Rebels cliches.