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Star Wars Books Thread

This is the sort of thing I really wish we would learn more about. What does the public know and think? What's the official story?
Well just like in the real world I'd imagine every individual has their own perspective and opinions, many of them perfectly valid and shaped by their own experiences, even if they are misinformed.

For example, someone like Hera or Numma who grew up on war torn Ryloth saw first hand the valour and integrity of the Jedi and also watched what the Republic became after Palpatine declared himself Emperor. They likely didn't believe a word of the official story.

On the other hand, imagine someone who grew up on a mid-rim world that went untouched by the fighting but suffered in other ways. Like heavy rationing due to disrupted trade routes and delayed food shipments. Increased pirate and slaver activity thanks to a booming black market and more political and police corruption due to war profiteering and lack of oversight. Such a person would see the Empire as finally restoring order, getting the transports running on time, stamping out the criminal parasites. That the Jedi were blamed for all this probably wouldn't phase them.
Such a person had probably only ever heard about Jedi in stories. Some where they're heroic warriors with impossible supernatural abilities. Others where they're stuffy old religious zealots and charlatans who steal children and indoctrinate them in their ancient dogma.

Then think of a person from a Separatist world that were already told of the corruption and arrogance of the Jedi, the weakness of the senate. They might see Palpatine's Empire as succeeding where the Separatist Parliament failed. Wiping out the corruption and reuniting the galaxy in peace.

Now think of someone in Coruscant's middle class. Who's father was an honest man but passed over for promotion again and again under the republic thanks to the rampant corruption. But under the Empire, his talents were recognised and his family given the opportunities they deserved. Better, cleaner housing. A job at the Imperial Civil Administration Bureau and free education for the children at the Coruscant Imperial Academy.
As for the Jedi? Those snobby elitist wizards? Claiming to protect the galaxy while propping up an obviously corrupt Senate? Good riddance!

As to the official story, I think from a logistical point of view, the less the Empire needs to invent the better. Best to simply re-contextualise what is already there. So every Republic victory at their hands is a ruse to win over the locals, every Separatist atrocity is staged by their puppet Dooku and his corporate collaborators.
Even Palpatine's "kidnapping" could easily be said to have been an attempt by the Jedi to personally bring Palpatine into line and when he refused to bend to their nefarious demands, they tried to murder him in his own office.

I am curious if there's an official story concerning Anakin. If he was simply added to the list of the dead at the temple or credited with dying in defence of Palpatine. More likely his records were simply deleted with the rest of the Jedi, with no full accounting appearing in any official Imperial records.
 
I am curious if there's an official story concerning Anakin. If he was simply added to the list of the dead at the temple or credited with dying in defence of Palpatine. More likely his records were simply deleted with the rest of the Jedi, with no full accounting appearing in any official Imperial records.

As I understand it, he was officially considered dead, and Vader wasn't publicly know for quite some time.
 
As I understand it, he was officially considered dead, and Vader wasn't publicly know for quite some time.
Now that I think about it, I believe there's a line in the Vader comic about Anakin's DNA record being purged from all systems. No clue if the same is true for all Jedi as a part of suppressing all knowledge of them or a specific precaution to protect Vader's true history.

Either way I think it's likely his presence at the Senate building is not part of the official narrative. If it was otherwise it'd make him more of a prominent figure in history, regardless of whether he's cast as aiding Windu or standing up to him.
 
Just finished my reread of Tarkin. Its definitely a good book, and the sections about Tarkin's past didn't drag quite as much. I also read the short story after it, "Bottleneck". Tarkin teams up with an imperial named Vidian, a cyborg focused on merchant type things. It wasn't a bad story, with some good Tarkin stuff and Vidian, while not getting much, seemed interesting. it also mentioned the imperial officer from Aftermath, Rae Sloane.

The last part I'll be reading of this combined book, skipping over the saturday morning cartoon tie in novel that was included with Tarkin for reasons I'll never understand, is the short story "The Lever's of Power", which seems to involve Sloane again. The other two short stories were pretty good, so I bet the last one will be.
 
The last part I'll be reading of this combined book, skipping over the saturday morning cartoon tie in novel that was included with Tarkin for reasons I'll never understand,

I would guess it was included because it might be *shock* good? For horror that Lucasfilm might think it a worthy novel to pair with Tarkin. :vulcan:
 
With Rogue One getting closer, I've been in a Star Warsy mood of late, so I've decided to read through all of the canon novels that I haven't read yet. So far I've only read Heir to the Jedi (which I thought was mediocre) and Lords of the Sith and Battlefront: Twilight Company (both of which I enjoyed). For no reason in particular I've decided to read the rest of the novels in chronological order, so I started in on Dark Disciple recently.

I'm only a few chapters in but I like it so far. Quinlan Vos was one of my favorite EU characters and I was happy to see him make it into The Clone Wars, though I was bummed that he was only in one episode, so this book's definitely making up for that. Vos and Asajj Ventress are certainly an...interesting pairing. I'm looking forward to seeing how things develop as the book unfolds.

After I finish that, I'll move on to Ahsoka (which just came out), then Tarkin, A New Dawn, Lost Stars (I guess this is a YA novel but I've heard good things, and on Wookieepedia it's included with the main line novels instead of with the young reader stuff), Aftermath, Aftermath: Life Debt, Bloodline, and then I should have Catalyst finished up in time for Rogue One. :techman:
 
IMO, both 'Lost Stars' and 'Ahsoka' somewhat stretch the definition of what I usually think of when I hear the term "young adult".
These don't seem aimed specifically at young teenagers like the old EU YA books, but are just crafted so that they can still be enjoyed by younger and older readers alike. Pretty much like the films then, really.
 
Just finished my reread of Tarkin. Its definitely a good book, and the sections about Tarkin's past didn't drag quite as much. I also read the short story after it, "Bottleneck". Tarkin teams up with an imperial named Vidian, a cyborg focused on merchant type things. It wasn't a bad story, with some good Tarkin stuff and Vidian, while not getting much, seemed interesting. it also mentioned the imperial officer from Aftermath, Rae Sloane.

Funny thing, "Bottleneck" is a tie-in to A New Dawn.

The last part I'll be reading of this combined book, skipping over the saturday morning cartoon tie in novel that was included with Tarkin for reasons I'll never understand, is the short story "The Lever's of Power", which seems to involve Sloane again. The other two short stories were pretty good, so I bet the last one will be.

I think the two were combined because they occupy a similar timeframe and theme, the Empire consolidating its power and early resistance. The novel is also quite good, but I'm starting to sound like a broken record on that, aren't I?
 
Funny thing, "Bottleneck" is a tie-in to A New Dawn.

But its written by a different writer, and has absolutely no saturday morning cartoon characters in it, so even if it has some connection to the Rebels "novel", it gets a pass as far as my reading it.

I think the two were combined because they occupy a similar timeframe and theme, the Empire consolidating its power and early resistance. The novel is also quite good, but I'm starting to sound like a broken record on that, aren't I?

I figured it was just to make a big book reprinting two books and make some money off people who wouldn't touch a kids cartoon book (I bought my copy used from Amazon, like I do all the books I buy, so they're not getting any money for Rebels related things from me :shifty:), but have been holding out for Tarkin in paperback. Then again, the people in charge of the SW new canon might be deluded enough to think the saturday morning cartoon book fits with an actual SW novel, but I'd feel better thinking it was just a cheap way of making people buy Tarkin on paperback at a slightly higher price by putting a few short stories and a chunck of worthless filler with Tarkin. I'd prefer to think that the people in charge of the books are money focused instead of outright delusional.[/quote][/QUOTE]
 
I finished Ahsoka recently. Pretty good, the author definitely did a pretty good job writing the character so that it was easy to visualize her as though this were a Clone Wars episode or something.
 
But its written by a different writer, and has absolutely no saturday morning cartoon characters in it, so even if it has some connection to the Rebels "novel", it gets a pass as far as my reading it.

Didn't know it was a different writer (although John Jackson Miller is one of the better Star Wars writers, IMHO, . However as far as the "saturday morning cartoon characters" go, Count Vidian was the big bad of A New Dawn.

I figured it was just to make a big book reprinting two books and make some money off people who wouldn't touch a kids cartoon book (I bought my copy used from Amazon, like I do all the books I buy, so they're not getting any money for Rebels related things from me :shifty:)...

A New Dawn is not a a kids cartoon book. It's as adult-targeted as Tarkin (and a more interesting story, IMHO). If you don't want to buy Rebels stuff, fair enough. I don't buy X-Wing stuff, since the series doesn't sound that interesting to me.

...but have been holding out for Tarkin in paperback.

There is a regular paperback with just Tarkin, too.

Then again, the people in charge of the SW new canon might be deluded enough to think the saturday morning cartoon book fits with an actual SW novel...

As stated before, the New Dawn novel isn't a cartoon story and hold its own with Tarkin, but what do I (who read the frakking thing) actually know, right?

...but I'd feel better thinking it was just a cheap way of making people buy Tarkin on paperback at a slightly higher price by putting a few short stories and a chunck of worthless filler with Tarkin.

My theory is that the target audience are either completists or people who want both novels for a good price. (And, as I pointed out before, the stories are at similar places in the timeline, so they do make a logical pairing.)

I'd prefer to think that the people in charge of the books are money focused instead of outright delusional.

I'm sure a pro book company knows what they're doing.
 
Didn't know it was a different writer (although John Jackson Miller is one of the better Star Wars writers, IMHO, . However as far as the "saturday morning cartoon characters" go, Count Vidian was the big bad of A New Dawn.

Putting a character in a kids cartoon book/tv show doesn't automatically make them a lame, basic character for young kids. Darth Vader isn't a terrible two dimensional cartoon character, and neither is the Emperor or Tarkin or Ahsoka or Thrawn. People can take good characters and do them badly, but it doesn't make the original character bad. The Rebels cast were terrible cardboard cut outs from their very inception, nothing can fix that.


A New Dawn is not a a kids cartoon book. It's as adult-targeted as Tarkin (and a more interesting story, IMHO). If you don't want to buy Rebels stuff, fair enough. I don't buy X-Wing stuff, since the series doesn't sound that interesting to me.

Why would anything with the cartoon characters is anything other then a kids book? The character's are too two dimensional to be in anything else, and you don't make a normal novel with cartoon characters on the cover when the characters are from a cartoon for 5 year olds. Its like writing a book about Barney being a psychotic killer, its ridiculous. When a character is specifically designed for a young demographic, you don't start putting them in books for older people. Not that any writer on Earth could make Hera or Kanan (or any of the other Rebels cast) into actual good characters, but its not something that makes any sense to attempt in the first place.

Now, maybe they tried to stick those bland, generic saturday morning cartoon characters into a book with a story too mature for the normal 5 year old demographic, but if they did that makes New Dawn possibly the biggest screw up in Star Wars book history. At that point it might be worth checking out just to see the car wreck of a "novel" that tries to make two kids tv cliches fit into a normal SW story. Not that I will (I'm not a masochist) but that would give it a reason to be read, I guess.


As stated before, the New Dawn novel isn't a cartoon story and hold its own with Tarkin, but what do I (who read the frakking thing) actually know, right?

In your opinion its not, which is fine. My opinion differs, obviously.


My theory is that the target audience are either completists or people who want both novels for a good price. (And, as I pointed out before, the stories are at similar places in the timeline, so they do make a logical pairing.)

I know why a consumer would buy them, I was talking about why the collection was made in the first place. I bought it because, used, it was only about $1-2 more then the Tarkin paperback, and I was willing to spend that difference to get the short stories. The cartoon "novel" is useless filler (although it might have a use if I ever run out of toilet paper :shifty:)

I'm sure a pro book company knows what they're doing.

Because being a professional book company makes them infallible? As much as I love the books of the old EU, its not like it didn't have some huge mistakes when it came to real world stuff (like basically forcing the best SW writer, Karen Traviss, away from SW books forever). The SW books are, in the end, run by people. People aren't infallbile, and its not like they have top quality people running the new canon. I have faith in individual writers, but not the people running the new canon (especially since Dave Filoni is pretty much part of that group).
 
You obviously have no idea what the words two dimensional character actually means, because if you did then there is no way you would be using those words to describe the Rebels character.
I also really, really hope you aren't responsible for kids because you also clearly have no idea what would actually be age appropriate for 5 year olds.
 
You obviously have no idea what the words two dimensional character actually means, because if you did then there is no way you would be using those words to describe the Rebels character.
I also really, really hope you aren't responsible for kids because you also clearly have no idea what would actually be age appropriate for 5 year olds.

Rebels is TV-Y7, but I think that's a pretty high rating. There was worse stuff shown at lower ratings then the things Rebels does when I was a kid. In the end, Rebels is space Aladdin having adventures with comedy relief characters and a few bland "adult" characters. The average Disney movie is less "age appropriate" for young kids then Rebels.

As for "two dimensional characters", I know exactly what it means. If Disney printed a dictionary, one of the Rebels cast would be pictured next to the definition. Its just like cartoons back in the day before the quality bar was raised Stuff like Captain Planet or things that came out before my time like He-Man are what I think of when I think "two dimensional cartoon characters". While they can have more violence in modern cartoons, from a characterization standpoint Rebels is definitely in the Captain Planet/He-Man/etc style. You have a cast of characters, and they are all cliches/have one or two main character traits and that's about it. Its a style that isn't nearly as popular anymore, stuff like Batman: The Animated series really raised the bar, but the Disney Marvel cartoons use this style and Filoni obviously likes it. It probably makes his job a lot easier, he (and his minions) have to put a lot less effort into Rebels writing then they did TCW.
 
Well, most of the Disney movies coming out now are PG, so that would put them at about the same level as Rebels. Even most of the older ones are pretty dark and violent for kids under 5, so that's really not helping your case.
Are you sure you're watching Star Wars: Rebels? Because what you are describing is not even close to what I've been watching. This is almost starting to sound to me like you are actually watching a different show, because the stuff you are saying is really starting to sound like a whole different show and not just a difference of opinion about the same show. When I first posted that, I was being sarcastic, but now I really am starting to wonder.
 
As for "two dimensional characters", I know exactly what it means.

Okay. Define the two-dimensional characters that are Hera and Kanan, and see how many three dimensional takes on them come out from those that aren't blinding themselves simply because the show is a cartoon.
 
Just out of curiosity, which one of us would the other Rebels viewers on here say are closer to how you feel on these issues? I only ask because I'm not a parent, and I'm not always great at judging characters.
 
Well, most of the Disney movies coming out now are PG, so that would put them at about the same level as Rebels. Even most of the older ones are pretty dark and violent for kids under 5, so that's really not helping your case.
Are you sure you're watching Star Wars: Rebels? Because what you are describing is not even close to what I've been watching. This is almost starting to sound to me like you are actually watching a different show, because the stuff you are saying is really starting to sound like a whole different show and not just a difference of opinion about the same show. When I first posted that, I was being sarcastic, but now I really am starting to wonder.

I watched the show where Ezra the super awesome space version of Aladdin is a street kid with attitude who meets generic adult mentor #4565 (Kanan) and the mentor's friends and ends up teaming up with them and quickly getting a level of force ability that would make RotJ Luke look pathetic. Ezra travels with Kanan, generic heroine #456 Hera, a fake mandalorian who happens to be the standard grafitti artist (with added explosions) and the worst droid in the history of the Star Wars franchise (and I will defend that statement as not being even slightly hyperbolic, Chopper is freaking terrible).

The characters go have generic adventures while fighting pathetic dark side force users every so often. Mostly its just bland adventures that involve space whales, Ezra learning lessons every kid character has been learning in cartoons since long before I was born and stuff like that. There is more violence then you'd see back in the day, but less then you'd see in a SW movie and the action is pretty poor. Every character is exactly the same from episode 1 until I dropped the show after the space whales (It seems like Ezra has switched from unrealistically gifted street kid to angsty teen, which is probably the most "development" the show will ever have, changing what cliche a character represents). I couldn't tell you anything Steve Blum or fake Mandalorian did of note (that one of the other characters couldn't have easily done) in any of the episodes I watched.

The writing is universally terrible, in ever aspect (characters, moments, episode plots, overall plot, etc). The writers also seem to have a vendetta against the actually good characters of the SW Universe, killing the best TCW character and making an abomination very, very loosely based on the best SW villain (not just of the old EU, but ever). No old character was treated well on the show, and are only used to either ruin them as characters or get a ratings boost. All the new characters were specifically made to not really be characters, just simplistic tropes to make five year olds on the channel for 20 minutes.

So, yeah, I definitely watched Rebels. I wish I could get all the wasted time back, but at least I have a solid foundation to talk about SW product so bad it makes the prequels look like the OT.

Okay. Define the two-dimensional characters that are Hera and Kanan, and see how many three dimensional takes on them come out from those that aren't blinding themselves simply because the show is a cartoon.

Kanan is the mentor. He's a former padawan who survived the Clone Wars. He always questions himself but is the standard heroic teacher who will always get his lesson across, even if he sometimes has to suffer to motivate the hero. He had a bit of the "reluctant teacher" trope, but that went away before probably episode 3-4.

Hera is the tough boss who sometimes pretends to not be the boss but definitely is. She's the character who breaks up the boring, standard fights between the angry comedy relief and Ezra/Chopper. She is also a pilot and mechanic. She's stubborn, and has a personal family history against the empire. That is all we ever get from her in the first season and a half.

My descriptions actually make them sound more complex then they are. I put a bit of their history in the descriptions mostly because they're backstory is most of their character.
 
Well, that right there pretty much blows up the idea that they are not fully formed three dimensional characters. If that was the case you wouldn't even be able to get that amount information out.
Where are you watching Rebels? Is it the airings on TV or an official Disney source, or a torrent site or something like that? Could you have maybe stumbled across a ripoff show someone is pretending is Rebels?
The names and basic information sound the same, but nothing else matches up with the show I've been watching, and I've been watching the show on Disney Channel and on the DVDs from Netflix, and both seem to match each other and the stuff I've seen online so I'm pretty sure it's the real deal.
I'm really trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, and see if there's a reason why you're saying things that contradict literally everything I have heard other people say and what I've experienced myself.
 
Well, that right there pretty much blows up the idea that they are not fully formed three dimensional characters. If that was the case you wouldn't even be able to get that amount information out.
Where are you watching Rebels? Is it the airings on TV or an official Disney source, or a torrent site or something like that? Could you have maybe stumbled across a ripoff show someone is pretending is Rebels?
The names and basic information sound the same, but nothing else matches up with the show I've been watching, and I've been watching the show on Disney Channel and on the DVDs from Netflix, and both seem to match each other and the stuff I've seen online so I'm pretty sure it's the real deal.
I'm really trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, and see if there's a reason why you're saying things that contradict literally everything I have heard other people say and what I've experienced myself.


Actually that doesn't "blow up" the idea that they're two dimensional characters. For example:

Ma-Ti is from the amazon and was raised by a Shaman. Ma-Ti wields the powers of heart to create caring, sympathy, etc. into people and make them care about the Earth. Ma-Ti is the youngest and most impressionable member of the Planeteers. He owns a pet monkey named Suchi. His small size (because he's the youngest) has made him feel inferior to the planeteers at times. He likes 1940s detective fiction, and tends to be emotional.

I just gave a description of a character from Captain Planet. I had to use wiki's for it since I haven't seen the show since I was pre-10, but its all easily found and seemingly deep info on a character from a show that no one will argue was anything more then generic saturday morning material with barely any characterization. You can sometimes write a lot of words about very simple, two dimensional characters.

As for the second part of your post, it feels like you're just attacking me personally at this point. I obviously watched Rebels. There is only one Rebels (thank god). The exact thing you watched, assuming you watched the real show and weren't accidentally watching the bizarro world version of Rebels :rolleyes:
 
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