Star Trek was my moral compass growing up- was it yours?

[Chrisisall]

I got my moral values from my parents and life itself, not a TV show, no matter how great Trek is.

ENNNHHH, wrong answer Hans.
You get your morals from any kind of input there is that you pay attention to. If you see a kid get beat up by bullies in a schoolyard, you have an inner response. You might file away a decision that oppression is a bad thing, or that weakness is a bad thing, or that peeps need a beating now & then or any number of other things. THE SAME THING can be attained in a fictional way, then applied to the real world using the appropriate inner reality-adjusters we all possess. You CANNOT be a Trek fan and have had no inner reactions to the rights & wrongs, justices & injustices portrayed in particular episodes.
When you first saw Private Little War, did you question Kirk's decision to arm the Hill people, even for a moment, like McCoy did? Being a Trek fan (and therefore clearly intelligent) means to think. Thinking... gentlemen, thinking is our business. To say a form of entertainment, especially one as thought-provoking as Trek often can be, has no measureable effect on your thinking, perception or morals is tantamount to relegating it to the trash heap- counting it as empty intellectual calories.

I reject your simplistic take on this phenomena sir, with all due respect.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

In a manner, I agree.

But Trek was hardly moralistic; the stories were always ankle-deep and everything was right at the end; no consequences whatsoever. The only morality play I remember of trek is the choice Sisko made regarding assassinating the Romulan ambassador. But then, that was beyond my early teens, it no longer had influence on my view of such a situation.

Still a Trek fan though, I'm just not worshiping it that much.

 

[Chrisisall]

But Trek was hardly moralistic; the stories were always ankle-deep and everything was right at the end; no consequences whatsoever.

One name: Edith Keeler.

The only morality play I remember of trek is the choice Sisko made regarding assassinating the Romulan ambassador. But then, that was beyond my early teens, it no longer had influence on my view of such a situation.

No obvious or instantly recognizable one at any rate. Again, IMO.

That's one thing I've not defined in this thread- how old do you have to be to have a significant effect impressed upon your engrams?
I was absorbing TOS from age six onwards. If you meet up with Trek after puberty hits (let's say), then it's a different ballgame; many of your morals have been much more "cemented" into your psyche IMO. In that case, you more or less consider the questions and/or solutions raised, as opposed to the direct absorbtion possible in little kids. For instance, I absolutely drank in the concept that it didn't matter if a girl was green or not- later in life I found myself dating females of any & every colour (I mean the real Earth colours, of course). That's Trek in my subconscious, all the way. I actually grew up (until age 10) in lilly-white-land, there was no other examples of inter-ANYTHING.
I could site other personal examples, but I intend to discuss, not write a book here.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Good points, the age does matter.

 

[Chrisisall]

Good points, the age does matter.

So, in a limited way, we reach?

 

[KimMH]

Trek did offer me a lot to think about but it is not my religions/personal philosophy. I do think TOS had more of a handle on the moral compass thing - maybe the world seemd more black and white or I was just younger. MUCH younger . . .
(yah, I'm old)

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Good points, the age does matter.

So, in a limited way, we reach?

In a limited way, I secede the point to you, good sir.

 

[Chrisisall]

Trek did offer me a lot to think about but it is not my religions/personal philosophy. I do think TOS had more of a handle on the moral compass thing - maybe the world seemed more black and white or I was just younger. MUCH younger . . .
(yah, I'm old)

Well, Trek made me question the nature of the use of power/force as applied to right & wrong issues, had me consider the idea that tolerance for differences was necessary for a diverse world, instilled in me my interest in real-life NASA adventures, and let me go black & still come back!

But in the religion/philosophy area, the series Kung-Fu had the most impact for me. The neo-Buddhist beliefs espoused in that show are with me to this day.

 

[Maurice]

But Trek was hardly moralistic; the stories were always ankle-deep and everything was right at the end; no consequences whatsoever.

One name: Edith Keeler.

And at the end everything was back to normal. She was sacrificed just like all the other people who died to wrap up the episode and maintain the status quo. It's not like it affected Kirk deeply...we never heard of her again, and he went right out and had romances again.

 

[Chrisisall]

She was sacrificed just like all the other people who died to wrap up the episode and maintain the status quo. It's not like it affected Kirk deeply...we never heard of her again, and he went right out and had romances again.

Oh PUH-LEEZE.
45 minute stand-alone episodes MUST use shorthand to do what they do. If you want to see the real, long-lasting effects on the peeps involved in a medium that allows for it, read the Crucible books, K?
*shakes head with that Warner Bros. cartoon sound effect*

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

One name: Edith Keeler.

And at the end everything was back to normal. She was sacrificed just like all the other people who died to wrap up the episode and maintain the status quo. It's not like it affected Kirk deeply...we never heard of her again, and he went right out and had romances again.

My significant other for many years was not a fan of a number of Harlan Ellison's recurring, uh, motifs. One time a friend and I were waxing enthusiastic over "A Boy And His Dog" and she exploded (she was normally very mild tempered). She pointed out that us guys liked to find depth and poetic statements about love and sacrifice in these HE stories that repetitively sacrificed the life of a woman to some ideal - or some emotional need - of the male protagonist.

D'oh!

Much as I admire City above all other Star Trek, she was not wrong.

Moral conclusions drawn from experience and reality are apt to be limited and easily lead us astray if not continually reevaluated as more reveals itself throughout our lives; how much dicier is it to draw such stuff from essentially immature pop culture stories that are hardly intended by their authors to substitute for either living or a real education?

Or, to quote Ellison in another context, "Star Trek was never anything but a glorified shoot-em-up, and confusing it with the Bhagavad Gita only muddies its waters."

 

[Chrisisall]

My significant other for many years was not a fan of a number of Harlan Ellison's recurring, uh, motifs. One time a friend and I were waxing enthusiastic over "A Boy And His Dog" and she exploded

But.. that girl was a manipulative bitch & deserved to be dog food!!!

She pointed out that us guys liked to find depth and poetic statements about love and sacrifice in these HE stories that repetitively sacrificed the life of a woman to some ideal - or some emotional need - of the male protagonist.

D'oh!

Much as I admire City above all other Star Trek, she was not wrong.

Stories of sacrifice are inevitably drawn along the lines you describe. Look at Tomb Raider 2, where the female protagonist is forced to sacrifice the male character she feels deeply for to secure the common good (Read: save Earth).

Moral conclusions drawn from experience and reality are apt to be limited and easily lead us astray if not continually reevaluated as more reveals itself throughout our lives; how much dicier is it to draw such stuff from essentially immature pop culture stories that are hardly intended by their authors to substitute for either living or a real education?

Whoa whoa whoa right there spinach chin, the intent is to entertain & draw a paycheck. Anything beyond that is art. And the art of making us THINK & RE-EVALUATE our human condition is rare, & to be appreciated IMO.
Savvy?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

But.. that girl was a manipulative bitch & deserved to be dog food!!!

That's not even a little bit funny. Is that the grasp of "morality" that comes from reading science fiction stories and watching tv?

Stories of sacrifice are inevitably drawn along the lines you describe. Look at Tomb Raider 2, where the female protagonist is forced to sacrifice the male character she feels deeply for to secure the common good (Read: save Earth).

No, that's just excuse-making.

Stories of sacrifice are somewhat more moving when the protagonist actually sacrifices him or herself, not when they Feel Real Bad about having thrown someone else into the volcano. Jesus notably did not consign Peter or Judas to crucifixion on Friday.

I suppose that's another reason that I've never bought into the "dramatic superiority" of Kirk stopping McCoy from saving Keeler instead of Spock having to intervene - what Kirk did in the final version was tough for him to do and he suffered for it (until the end credits) but it wasn't extraordinarily noble or heroic.

 

[Chrisisall]

That's not even a little bit funny.

Oh come on, it is... a little! Don't go all PC on me!

Is that the grasp of "morality" that comes from reading science fiction stories and watching tv?

No, it's a twisted sense of humour that we, as civilized peeps, can indulge in in a fantasy setting to slake the bloodthirsty side of our animal proclivities.

Stories of sacrifice are inevitably drawn along the lines you describe. Look at Tomb Raider 2, where the female protagonist is forced to sacrifice the male character she feels deeply for to secure the common good (Read: save Earth).

No, that's just excuse-making.

No, that a counter-example to demonstrate the other side of the masogyonistic coin.*damn, no spell-check on this unit*

Stories of sacrifice are somewhat more moving when the protagonist actually sacrifices him or herself, not when they Feel Real Bad about having thrown someone else into the volcano.

You don't think a piece of Kirk died with Edith? You heartless monster, you.

Jesus notably did not consign Peter or Judas to crucifixion.

Peter or Judas weren't the ones God wrote to die- a lot depends on the author. Like Ripley in Alien3, God wanted to make a statement about SELF-SACRIFICE, that's not the intent of a continuing story regarding a character intended to live other adventures.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Oh come on, it is... a little! Don't go all PC on me!

Don't play the "PC" card - that's thoughtless jargon and means nothing.

Peter or Judas weren't the ones God wrote to die- a lot depends on the author. Like Ripley in Alien3, God wanted to make a statement about SELF-SACRIFICE, that's not the intent of a continuing story regarding a character intended to live other adventures.

Okay, you evaded the point rather than addressing it. Maybe this is meant to be humorous as well. There's not much reason to continue discussing the topic, then. You're welcome to your morality-derived-from-TeeVee. Ta.

 

[Chrisisall]

Maybe this is meant to be humorous as well. Always.There's not much reason to continue discussing the topic, then. You're welcome to your morality-derived-from-TeeVee. Ta.

Wanna be serious? I think V For Vendetta is a supreme example of an entertaining, yet MOVING story of self-sacrifice for the greater good. Unfortunately, Trek deals with established & ongoing characters that aren't going by the wayside to make a point (except the death of Spock & Data, both of which were ludicrous IMO).

Dennis, I like ya, don't go away angry or anything. I'm flip sometimes, but that's my way. Think of me as a *slightly* more intelligent version of Ash from Army Of Darkness.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

I think V For Vendetta is a supreme example of an entertaining, yet MOVING story of self-sacrifice for the greater good.

I agree with you on that. So, the conclusion is: in order to view moving morality plays, do not watch Star Trek; watch something else.

 

[Chrisisall]

I agree with you on that. So, the conclusion is: in order to view moving morality plays, do not watch Star Trek; watch something else.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Everyone here should read "Beam Us Home" by James Tiptree AKA Alice Sheldon. It's about a boy who grows up believing he was sent to Earth by Captain Kirk to explore, learn, but never interfere. He joins the Air Force because he wants to eventually be an astronaut, but war breaks out. Sick by some kind of biological weapon and having lost all hope, deciding he crazy all along, he takes his plane, flies it at top speed straight up, and calls out what he thinks are going to be his last words, "Beam me up, Scotty..."

...then he gets a bit of a shock.

Now there's a kid whose moral compass was Star Trek.

 

[Chrisisall]

Now there's a kid whose moral compass was Star Trek.

Here's a different moral compass:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/85839/the-tonight-show-with-conan-obrien-shatner-does-palin