Star Trek VI: Made on the Cheap, and it hurts the film
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No problem with e effects and most of the sets. I didn't enjoy the engine room set being reused, but I understood the reasoning. All the problems I had were to do with the story and dialog. It was rushed into production and they were still a rewrite away from a final draft. I also overloaded on it because I loved it in 1991. When I got home video, I really hated the additional scenes. From that point on, my opinion of the film dropped really low. Then the Blu-Ray finally gave us the theatrical version and, lookie here, I fricking love this movie all over again. I couldn't believe how those little extra scenes cheapened or made cheesier this film. "Col. West" is too over the top and on the nose Ollie North, plus he has a really bad line; "Frankly, Mr. President, we'll clean their chronometers." Chronometers? Nick Meyer never hesitates to retro fit Trek technology to suit his 19th century nautical obsession, but for this line he sticks with 23rd century terminology?
Meyer further mucked it up with the Directors Edition DVD when he added the BOIINNGG! And b&w flashbacks to the mind meld, cuz we wouldn't remember who is who in this super-tough-to -follow mystery plot. Jeez.
Also, the "Klingon bitch" line from Scotty was awful. The fact that Valeris' ass made the wall wobble didn't help. Finally, making West the assassin in the Scooby-Doo ending made the whole plot nonsense. Really? You're gonna dress up a middle-aged old dude in a latex mask and heavy costume just so he can OBVIOUSLY get up in the middle of a speech with a briefcase and go to his perch? It makes more sense to have one of Chang's men do it, as it was done originally. There's no deed for West to personally be involved. Still though the whole "getting up in the middle of the speech with the briefcase" was still pretty bad. Security was pretty lax in the corridors.
All of that just made the film tougher to take seriously and when you have fat old guys in space, you need the rest of the movie to be pretty solid. And it was until the home video version.
Meyer further mucked it up with the Directors Edition DVD when he added the BOIINNGG! And b&w flashbacks to the mind meld, cuz we wouldn't remember who is who in this super-tough-to -follow mystery plot. Jeez.
Also, the "Klingon bitch" line from Scotty was awful. The fact that Valeris' ass made the wall wobble didn't help. Finally, making West the assassin in the Scooby-Doo ending made the whole plot nonsense. Really? You're gonna dress up a middle-aged old dude in a latex mask and heavy costume just so he can OBVIOUSLY get up in the middle of a speech with a briefcase and go to his perch? It makes more sense to have one of Chang's men do it, as it was done originally. There's no deed for West to personally be involved. Still though the whole "getting up in the middle of the speech with the briefcase" was still pretty bad. Security was pretty lax in the corridors.
All of that just made the film tougher to take seriously and when you have fat old guys in space, you need the rest of the movie to be pretty solid. And it was until the home video version.
While I can't say I much agree with your assessment of the film as a whole (I quite enjoy it). I do have to say that this is the main reason I never got the film on DVD.
I think the mind meld scene is a very tense and well directed scene, and I can't believe Meyer would break up his continuous shot by doing something so cheap.
This didn't bother me, because as I recall, the wall looked like a removable plate that could conceivably have some "give."
The part I don't really get is...
Take the engine room set, direct from TNG.
We know it, they know it, can't really re-dress it enough to fool anyone.
So why bother with it then?
It was just a glimpse really, panning across some faces.
Scotty looks on, we see the warp core. So what?
Had nothing to do with the plot, wasn't a vital scene or set,
so what the hell? Could have dropped it completely, doesn't change the film.
We don't ALWAYS have to see engineering.
It's as if that scene exists only for us to nitpick it to hell.
Take the engine room set, direct from TNG.
We know it, they know it, can't really re-dress it enough to fool anyone.
So why bother with it then?
It was just a glimpse really, panning across some faces.
Scotty looks on, we see the warp core. So what?
Had nothing to do with the plot, wasn't a vital scene or set,
so what the hell? Could have dropped it completely, doesn't change the film.
We don't ALWAYS have to see engineering.
It's as if that scene exists only for us to nitpick it to hell.
Here's a question I've always had about the TNG reused Engine room set. Why does it matter if they reused it? It didn't bother me in the slightest, and I always felt they redressed it enough.
And even if they didn't, so what? Since these ships are more or less similar in ways you'd think they'd have similar interiors.
And even if they didn't, so what? Since these ships are more or less similar in ways you'd think they'd have similar interiors.
Exactly -- even in modern RL ships/cutters, most of the interior bulkheads are non-structural and made of a composite, sandwich-style material.
*Censoring comment about being the wall in that situation.*
Cheers,
-CM-
Except for one small clip during the final battle where a poor CGI of the Enterprise side is used, the effects were on par and exceeding 1991 standards. Even today the effects and production quality don't feel dated. Cobra
What shot is that?
Voyager they wanted one that they could walk completely around, I quite like that set and warp core myself.
UC The Warp core is probably my only dislike about the whole movie. Why would Scotty be so impressed about the D's Warp core if its the same as his?
Maybe someone will insert a different core with CGI one day, disguise it a bit. Not that hard to do, these days.
Engine rooms 80 years apart, and a much bigger ship. Compare the TMP Enterprise 's engine room to its successor.
Actually, I do like it the film very much, but only the theatrical version. I really don't think the added scenes were necessary or added anything particularly positive.
I can buy that, but without having to delve into it, it just looked very cheap to have the wobbly wall / plate tremble as soon as she hit the ground.
As far as the Engine Room set, the only real problem I had with it involved the awful acting. Doohan's smug smile seems odd, but the technician next to him looking at the warp core incredulously really sticks out. I mean, were they expecting the ship to blow up and Scotty beat the odds and saved them? There is no motivation for those reactions.
I liked the glimpse of engineering we got in STV. They redressed the corridor where Scotty bangs his head to make it look like it's running alongside the horizontal warp core from TMP and WoK.
As a little kid, uncomprehending of partially-built sets, I was desperate to know what the rest of that engine room looked like.
(btw, that STV corridor was reused as late as season one of Voyager, where it was part of an alien power plant, and in the very next episode was part of a Vidiian base when Neelix's lungs were stolen)
As a little kid, uncomprehending of partially-built sets, I was desperate to know what the rest of that engine room looked like
.(btw, that STV corridor was reused as late as season one of Voyager, where it was part of an alien power plant, and in the very next episode was part of a Vidiian base when Neelix's lungs were stolen)
It's a model, but this is the infamously bad shot. I'm pretty sure it's the lighting that does it, though I think there might be some issues with the way the camera moves, as well.
There was some CGI used in TUC, but only for computer displays like this one.
It's the lighting, and the fact that the way the shot is cut in it's not immediately apparent that it's the POV of the circling Bird of Prey and not the Enterprise spinning.
I believe the ships in that shot are small models, not CGI.
My mistake. I'd assumed that was what it was, but looking it up, it appears the CGI in TUC was limited to the Praxis explosion and the shapeshifting effects.
That was the shot I was referring to. I know that STVI used models for the ships. I thought that this specific clip used basic CGI seeing how the ship didn't appear real and looked really crude. I don't know why they didn't redo this clip. It was pretty obvious that it looked lousy. The rest of the ship shots are pretty good.
^^^I always figured that shot was CGI as well. Interesting to find out it wasn't.
I recently watched Undiscovered Country again (the pure theatrical version no less) with this thread in mind. All through the movie it didn't appear to me that it was low budget at all. Meyer was able to make a great movie despite the limitations of the budget. In my opinion at least.
I recently watched Undiscovered Country again (the pure theatrical version no less) with this thread in mind. All through the movie it didn't appear to me that it was low budget at all. Meyer was able to make a great movie despite the limitations of the budget. In my opinion at least.
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