Star Trek: The Motion Picture on DVD

[trevanian]

So you can squint and see the roof of the studio? Almost nobody noticed that on their 19" set 20-odd years back.

When I recently watched Jurassic Park I noticed that during the helicopter-flight to the island, you can see where the backdrop-screen ends in one shot with Hammond...

That's Speedyberg for you. There are setups in JP where technicians were in-shot and he printed them anyway, figuring ILM could paint the people out afterward.

 

[Grant]

Ah, the reason you only see a little of the sound stage in the SLV is because it's in 4 by 3 format.

ANY fututre release of the Trek movies will be in widescreen and the sound stage would be far more visible AND his alternate space-suit would be even more obvious on a screen larger than 19 inch. I watched it on a 25 inch screen & I noticed.

And now the people who prefer the DE are lumped in with some folks who rush out to see the latest blockbusters and AREN'T true Trek fans.

How arrogant & pathetic.

The main knock on TMP since day one has been it's slowness. SLV moves at a snails pace and throws in every scene but the kitchen sink and it's somehow better? Wise and Roddenberry would have never put in all that stuff back in '79. Even they could see that that stuff would bring the movie to a grinding halt.

So the 18% who prefer the SLV are the true Trek fans with better tatse.

Campy sound effects

 

[RyanKCR]

I never said that people who like the SLV are the only true Star Trek fans and tell me how the new sound effects are not campy.

 

[cardinal biggles]

He's responding to separate things you and Trevanian were saying about a page ago.

When you refer to the sound effects as "campy," I assume you mean the following definition: "Intentionally tasteless or vulgar, self-parodying." The sound effects aren't tasteless, they certainly aren't vulgar, and they'd only qualify as self-parody if you consider TOS — which is where the majority of them came from — to be self-parodying in the first place.

Do they fit with the rest of the film? No, and I wish that they'd used the sound effects devised for TMP in the first place and worked from there if they needed to come up with new ones. The fact is, though, that Paramount wanted to do this on the cheap, which means the sound effects budget probably provided just enough for them to drive over to the local FYE and buy a copy of the album with all the TOS sound effects... if it was on sale.

While the DE fixes a lot of what was wrong with the TE and the SLV, the limited budget introduced its own set of problems, the new sound effects being one of them. But they aren't campy.

 

[trevanian]

Ah, the reason you only see a little of the sound stage in the SLV is because it's in 4 by 3 format.

ANY fututre release of the Trek movies will be in widescreen and the sound stage would be far more visible AND his alternate space-suit would be even more obvious on a screen larger than 19 inch. I watched it on a 25 inch screen & I noticed.

And now the people who prefer the DE are lumped in with some folks who rush out to see the latest blockbusters and AREN'T true Trek fans.



How arrogant & pathetic.

The main knock on TMP since day one has been it's slowness. SLV moves at a snails pace and throws in every scene but the kitchen sink and it's somehow better? Wise and Roddenberry would have never put in all that stuff back in '79. Even they could see that that stuff would bring the movie to a grinding halt.

So the 18% who prefer the SLV are the true Trek fans with better tatse.

Campy sound effects

There's plenty of stuff in ALL cuts of the movie that bring things to 'a grinding halt.' Have you really SEEN tmp? There is stuff that breaks up the slowness in the SLV, and that is probably a good thing. Also the idea that action does not all take place on one plane (hence the tilting stuff while trying to avoid the first vger attack, which'd probably work better with some exteriors -- which WERE boarded by Abel -- had been added.)

The 'alternate spacesuit' is also seen closeup and fullscreen, not just in the rafters shot, so there's plenty more to be concerned with there than the brief cut in the SLV that you go on about.

I don't think I said anything about 'true' fans, and don't really care about the definition of said notion. I feel fine about grouping hivemind behavior with hivemind mentality, however.

If that make me arrogant about how pathetic you are, sorry. You've make a few decent posts, but an awful lot of ill-informed and offensive ones as well. Offensive is fine when appropriate, but coupled with ill-informed just makes you an abrasively annoying lunkhead, and that ain't cool.

EDIT ADDON -just realized you are the guy who is being so ... you ... in the TWOK thread on added/missing scenes. Man, you sure know how to prove my points for me.

 

[ScatmanRescueMe]

Why are people trying give orders & insulting heree instead of commenting on the movie? Hivemind??

People who like the DE are part of a hivemind'??

So the vast majority of the folks who prefer the DE are now part of a hivemind. Just keep throwing slurs, it just doesn't make your point any stronger.

Anyway the alternate spacesuit is also seen in the airlock scene as well as the exterior shot, but in NO scenes in the theatrical or DE.
The continuity error as far as the spacesuit is unique to the SLV.
Yes all 3 versions have their advantages and weakness', but the SLV is the slowest (not just the longest) version which adds to the most common criticism of the movie in general.

Both should have never been added back in any official version.
It's one thing to point out movies where you can see a boom mike, a backdrop, an extra all seen by accident---

But to purposely reinsert scenes that were scrapped with totally blown continuity, is unexcusable.

Those are the perfect scenes for 'alternate/deleted' scenes in a DVD not ever to be put in the movie though.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Guys, can we agree to disagree? Let's keep it cool, all right? Thanks. ^^

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Here are my thoughts on all this:

- I will only buy the Director's Cut. If the first Blu-Ray isn't it, then I will steer clear. I much prefer the DE over any other version.

- Even so, the DE will probably show up on Blu-Ray soon. Assuming they still have the digital files of the new effects (and there's no reason not to), then those files could simply be re-rendered at the higher resolution.

- That being said, some of the scenes in the longer TV version should really be added back in. Scenes like the extended McCoy/Kirk bit ("As ship's surgeon, I am now discussing the subject...of command fitness."). And these scenes don't even have *any* effects, so adding them to a 'super DE' would seem a trivial task.

 

[Data Holmes]

Here are my thoughts on all this:

- I will only buy the Director's Cut. If the first Blu-Ray isn't it, then I will steer clear. I much prefer the DE over any other version.

- Even so, the DE will probably show up on Blu-Ray soon. Assuming they still have the digital files of the new effects (and there's no reason not to), then those files could simply be re-rendered at the higher resolution.

- That being said, some of the scenes in the longer TV version should really be added back in. Scenes like the extended McCoy/Kirk bit ("As ship's surgeon, I am now discussing the subject...of command fitness."). And these scenes don't even have *any* effects, so adding them to a 'super DE' would seem a trivial task.

There are about a dozen edits that could and should be undone if you ask me. Kirk's first viewer off, the a fore mentioned McCoy/Kirk exchange...

And restoring the original sound track, including the computer voice...

They need to do a proper job.

 

[RyanKCR]

Here are my thoughts on all this:

- I will only buy the Director's Cut. If the first Blu-Ray isn't it, then I will steer clear. I much prefer the DE over any other version.

- Even so, the DE will probably show up on Blu-Ray soon. Assuming they still have the digital files of the new effects (and there's no reason not to), then those files could simply be re-rendered at the higher resolution.

- That being said, some of the scenes in the longer TV version should really be added back in. Scenes like the extended McCoy/Kirk bit ("As ship's surgeon, I am now discussing the subject...of command fitness."). And these scenes don't even have *any* effects, so adding them to a 'super DE' would seem a trivial task.

There are about a dozen edits that could and should be undone if you ask me. Kirk's first viewer off, the a fore mentioned McCoy/Kirk exchange...

And restoring the original sound track, including the computer voice...

They need to do a proper job.

I would so love a DE that did that. Especially Decker's we all create God in our own image line being restored.

But the sound effects from the original need to come back.

 

[Tallguy]

I never thought of the DE as "campy". The new sound effects were very tasteful and understated. They were just from Generations, is all.

What had me scratching my head was that if the TMP sounds were too "cold" (or whatever), why did they keep them for TWOK? (Other than budgetary reasons.) So much for trying to keep a 1979 mindset. That said, I still think Mr. Lucas should be tied to a chair, Clockwork style, and made to watch the DE over and over and over until he realizes that if you HAVE to mess with an original, this is how to do it.

Heh. I think I'm going to write down my Star Trek: The Motion Picture: The a la carte Edition. What would be my ULTIMATE cut of TMP. I figure that the only thing I don't like in any edition are the mattes for Vulcan. (Although I like the 1979 matte better than the DE. Have I mentioned I don't like the DE Vulcan? 'Cause I don't like the DE Vulcan. Don't like it.)

 

[GodThingFormerly]

I figure that the only thing I don't like in any edition are the mattes for Vulcan. (Although I like the 1979 matte better than the DE. Have I mentioned I don't like the DE Vulcan? 'Cause I don't like the DE Vulcan. Don't like it.)

The problem with Vulcan (and the "wingwalk") is that Jeffrey Kaztenberg assigned a percentage of the matte paintings to Apogee, even though Matthew Yuricich and Rocco Gioffre assured him that they would be able to complete all the paintings required for ST:TMP in time for Trumbull to photograph and composite them. Coincidentally, the original Vulcan mattes - approved by both Wise and Roddenberry - were designed by Mike Minor:

...and here is a 1978 photo of Yuricich in his MGM office completing one of the Vulcan paintings which - thanks to Katzenberg's mismanagement - didn't make it to the screen:

TGT

 

[trevanian]

do we assume that these and other TMP trek paintings just got painted over for BRAINSTORM or BLADE RUNNER?

 

[GodThingFormerly]

do we assume that these and other TMP trek paintings just got painted over for BRAINSTORM or BLADE RUNNER?

I suspect that the glass plates upon which Yuricich and Gioffre painted their mattes for the film remained the property of MGM (RA&A's 70mm equipment was still in crates when principle photography began on ST:TMP so Paramount had to make arrangements for Y&G to use MGM's matte facilities), and the studio's policy was to have some art department flunky burn the paint off with a blowtorch after photography so the plates - which were apparently rather expensive - could be reused for subsequent films. On the other hand, there was absolutely nothing to stop Rocco Gioffre from recreating them from the original concept art in Photoshop.

TGT

 

[Herbert1]

TGT, are you saying that Yuricich's matte paintings never made it to the screen because Katzenberg didn't believe that they would be ready in time and assigned a duplicate project to Apogee?

 

[gomtuu20]

I have it on DVD and on VHS and I'm willing to sell. I have found the director's edition to be far superior to anything that ever came before. It is now a finished movie. In any event, the director's cut has the deleted lines in one of the specials.
Keep in mind, that there was the theatrical version, then the VHS version that just kind of had all the extra scenes in them, not all of them finished. For example, the theatrical version never even had the scene where Kirk is going outside the ship when Spock is going into V'ger with the jet pack. You will notice that the set is clearly visible and that it was meant to be finished with fx later on. It never had the fx added because it was not used in the theatrical release, but it was included on the VHS as a "special edition". In the theatrical version, it just cuts to where Kirk is already waiting there in his spacesuit to catch Spock.

 

[Maurice]

For example, the theatrical version never even had the scene where Kirk is going outside the ship when Spock is going into V'ger with the jet pack. You will notice that the set is clearly visible and that it was meant to be finished with fx later on.

This was mentioned upthread by Grant, and it's something we all know.

 

[Therin of Andor]

It never had the fx added because it was not used in the theatrical release, but it was included on the VHS as a "special edition". In the theatrical version, it just cuts to where Kirk is already waiting there in his spacesuit to catch Spock.

Actually, the matte painting was never finished because they'd already redesigned the spacesuits, rendering the footage unusable! Thus, in the ABC TV version (aka the "Special Longer Version" on VHS), Kirk leaves the ship in one helmet and returns in another.

 

[Data Holmes]

It never had the fx added because it was not used in the theatrical release, but it was included on the VHS as a "special edition". In the theatrical version, it just cuts to where Kirk is already waiting there in his spacesuit to catch Spock.

Actually, the matte painting was never finished because they'd already redesigned the spacesuits, rendering the footage unusable! Thus, in the ABC TV version (aka the "Special Longer Version" on VHS), Kirk leaves the ship in one helmet and returns in another.

I thought the suits were changed just so that they would match up with those little figures that they used for long shots like at Epsilon nine.

Spock is still in the old suit in sickbay after the trip out. The suits are in the background when spock neck pinches the tec in the airlock...

The only place where the new suit design shows up is in the a fore mentioned Epsilon nine sequence, the enterprise launch sequence, and the spock walk sequence.

I think it was done so that Trumble could shoot the sequences in miniature, and just superimpose the image of spock's face and head on miniture.

I also think that the only thing changed with the suits were the chest and helmet part. The red and white "body glove" part was the same.



At least that's my opinion. I liked the "memory wall" suit design more myself, over the Spock walk suit design.

 

[Maurice]

I thought the suits were changed just so that they would match up with those little figures that they used for long shots like at Epsilon nine.

No, the little figures around Epsilon Nine and the drydock are re-use of the miniature Spock and Spock's spacesuit, not the other way around.

Spock is still in the old suit in sickbay after the trip out.

Spock's not in a spacesuit in sickbay (click to see). Do you actually LOOK before you make these claims?

The suits are in the background when spock neck pinches the tec in the airlock...

Yes, but that's the only place they appear in the theatrical and DE editions, and not a continuity problem per se, because they could be suits for other purposes.

I also think that the only thing changed with the suits were the chest and helmet part. The red and white "body glove" part was the same.

The suits were totally redone, because everyone hated the previous suits, which some people referred to as the "Sparklets" suits because of their water-cooler looking helmets. They were reportedly hot and uncomfortable and not well ventilated.