Star Trek-RM: The Mark of Gideon… Grading/Discussion
- Thread starter AstroSmurf
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(Man, that line works for LOTS of things, doesn't it?) 
EXACTLY. All three of those are glaring reasons why this episode is almost totally worthless save for Odona and learning more about Kirk's background in terms of his past health issues. The Enterprise duplicate's size requirements alone are enough of a plot loophole to warrant sticking it to this dumb script.
Yeah, the more digitized and updated chronometers are always a welcome sight for sore eyes.
This is an episode which seems to make less and less sense the more one watches it, and conidering the intitial befuddlement of the first-time viewer, that's saying something. Kirk says the Gideonites drew blood from him without his being aware of it. When (and how) did they do this? How could the Gideonites build a replica in which even the personal items in Kirk's own quarters were authentic enough to fool him. How come Spock doesn't try to call Kirk on the communicator once he realizes he is missing?
too bad, because there's some really interesting ideas in this story buried in the muddled plot.
too bad, because there's some really interesting ideas in this story buried in the muddled plot.
Couldn't the Gideonites have gotten a sample of a dangerous virus or bacterium from another source and saved all this trouble? The script tries to be eerie and mysterious but the motivations for the Council's actions make no damn sense.
Even worse...Kirk takes her to his quarters to...well...you know.NiteTrek;1696877" said:
Surely the fine engineers of Gideon couldn't have know what was in Kirk's quarters?
My vote is for the scan/holodeck explanation of this one, although it's difficult to believe they could scan the big E so thoroughly without the scan being detected.
This episode has never been a favorite of any Trekker I've personally known in the flesh. The plot has so many loopholes and logical leaps of idiocy that its a wonder anyone anywhere likes it beyond the cute guest actress.
Ya think? When the Prime Minister learned about Kirk's having Vegan choriomeningitis (what, Star Fleet's handing out the medical records of its personnel to visiting interstellar dignitaries?), one would think he'd have found out he has a reputation as a ladies' man as well. Couldn't they have arranged for Odona to hook up with him during the negotiations and get a blood sample? Kiss Jimmy goodbye then infect a couple of volunteers to serve as sources of infection.
Really, it's simpler, cheaper and easier than building a replica Enterprise and draws much less attention.
One would think that the Gideonites had fairly complete records of many things Federation and Starfleet. The Feds are making a sales pitch, after all - Gideon would probably get all sorts of samples, and the Feds like to portray themselves as open and freedom-loving (as opposed to their chief competitors the Klingons) and would probably emphasize free sharing of information.
Given this, it wouldn't be that difficult to reproduce a starship to serve as a laboratory in which to study and exploit an abducted Starfleet officer for an extended period of time - no doubt a necessary step in getting the desired infectious effects when it's made clear the Gideonites are immune to pretty much everything. And surely it would be at least common courtesy to let a member world candidate view the detailed medical records of people they might receive on the surface of their world; it just wouldn't be a good start for negotiations if the negotiator killed a million natives with a sneeze. Gideon could certainly count on that.
One wonders if Gideon had any hope of interstellar contact unless somebody like Starfleet came to them. Perhaps it wouldn't be possible to run a space program if one's planet is starved of all other resources save manpower? A trap would seem the prudent choice, then. What other source for interstellar infections could these people possibly have?
Of course, it would speak of desperation that they kidnap a Starfleet starship captain as opposed to, say, the second mate of Harry Mudd's most recent rumrunner. But we could argue that Gideon had already tried a few such easy victims, with little result, and decided it had to risk going for Kirk and his superb disease right now.
And I still don't get the rather absurd objection that there wouldn't be room on Gideon to build a starship. People can't plausibly live literally shoulder to shoulder, even if they do bump against each other a lot in big cities and important buildings. And digging underground facilities the size of a starship should be trivially easy if only the surface of the planet were inhabited - and even easier if Gideon already had a tradition of building beneath the surface! The planet would need a population in hundreds of trillions, not mere billions, for the entire upper crust to be honeycombed so densely that not a single starship would fit in.
Timo Saloniemi
Given this, it wouldn't be that difficult to reproduce a starship to serve as a laboratory in which to study and exploit an abducted Starfleet officer for an extended period of time - no doubt a necessary step in getting the desired infectious effects when it's made clear the Gideonites are immune to pretty much everything. And surely it would be at least common courtesy to let a member world candidate view the detailed medical records of people they might receive on the surface of their world; it just wouldn't be a good start for negotiations if the negotiator killed a million natives with a sneeze. Gideon could certainly count on that.
One wonders if Gideon had any hope of interstellar contact unless somebody like Starfleet came to them. Perhaps it wouldn't be possible to run a space program if one's planet is starved of all other resources save manpower? A trap would seem the prudent choice, then. What other source for interstellar infections could these people possibly have?
Of course, it would speak of desperation that they kidnap a Starfleet starship captain as opposed to, say, the second mate of Harry Mudd's most recent rumrunner. But we could argue that Gideon had already tried a few such easy victims, with little result, and decided it had to risk going for Kirk and his superb disease right now.
And I still don't get the rather absurd objection that there wouldn't be room on Gideon to build a starship. People can't plausibly live literally shoulder to shoulder, even if they do bump against each other a lot in big cities and important buildings. And digging underground facilities the size of a starship should be trivially easy if only the surface of the planet were inhabited - and even easier if Gideon already had a tradition of building beneath the surface! The planet would need a population in hundreds of trillions, not mere billions, for the entire upper crust to be honeycombed so densely that not a single starship would fit in.
Timo Saloniemi
No one's arguing that...it's reproducing a specific ship that's so unbelievable.
I might be able to reproduce a 2005 Ford Focus, given the time and resources to do so. I could not, however, with any reasonable success, reproduce your 2005 Ford Focus that you have driven around for three years. See the difference?
I'm reminded of the scene in Mirror, Mirror where McCoy notices subtle changes in the sickbay of the mirror universe Enterprise. "I spilled acid there" and such. How could they reproduce the Enterprise in such exquisite, perfect detail so the Kirk wouldn't notice the difference?
Convoluted...but more entertaining and sensible than the actual script for damn sure.
Trying to come up with sensible excuses for the plot just causes crushing headaches. I gave up a while ago. I don't need the premature aneurysm.
Here's my two cents. The Gideonites could have used some sort of memory scanner to probe Kirks mind and then used holodeck technology to re-create the ship, based on those memories? The process could even be assumed to be done in "real time" so as to re-create the ship even as Kirk is walking through it, thus taking up relatively little space in reality?
Could be. But this episode gives no indications the ship is a projected simulation of any kind...it apparenlty exists as a solid object. And a BIG ONE on a crushingly overpopulated planet that supposedly has no spare room to breathe or think.
If the Gideonites possessed good quality VR techniques, one would think they would be using those extensively for recreation. Instead, this one hyperimportant government project involving open spaces is so rare that people deliberately endanger it by peering in through the windows for a glimpse of the emptiness...
And I still insist it's inane to think that vast open spaces could not be built on an overpopulated planet. They could build three hundred Astrodomes beneath each of their cities if they wanted - their planet's crust is an inexhaustible reserve of real estate. Their problem is not anything so naïve as crowdedness, despite appearances; it is the sum total of the negative effects of high population, and that sum total won't decrease merely by building more spaces underground.
Timo Saloniemi
And I still insist it's inane to think that vast open spaces could not be built on an overpopulated planet. They could build three hundred Astrodomes beneath each of their cities if they wanted - their planet's crust is an inexhaustible reserve of real estate. Their problem is not anything so naïve as crowdedness, despite appearances; it is the sum total of the negative effects of high population, and that sum total won't decrease merely by building more spaces underground.
Timo Saloniemi
This episode makes my ass bleed.
A perfect, and highly appropriate, summation. Couldn't have said it better myself.This episode makes my ass bleed.
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