Star Trek-RM: The Enterprise Incident… Grading/Discussion

[zopman]

Unless, of course, the camera is not absolutely locked to the Enterprise during the entire shot. The ship and the camera start off at the same speed, but then the Enterprise speeds up and peels off.

That's my point! That's NOT what happens!! The camera stays the same distance from the Enterprise, but the Enterprise slowly changes (rotates) its direction (RELATIVE TO THE CAMERA!!), so the star's movement should change (again, RELATIVE TO THE CAMERA!!), BUT THEY DON'T!!! So the Enterprise ends up looking like it's moving SIDEWAYS!! AR-R-R-R-R-RGH!!

They had a similar shot setup in "The Ultimate Computer - RM," where the Enterprise turns & pulls up behind another starship, & the star movement was spot-on correct! It was a great shot & added excitement to the sequence. So they know how to do it, but they didn't this time!! That's my point!

 

[Kail]

Pretty good. I liked that they threw in a Bird of Prey and added Romulan markings to the battlecruisers.

Wow, Kelso, that's inspired. Where could they have gotten an idea like that?
http://www.startrekanimated.com/tas_comic05_cover.html

 

[Professor Moriarty]

B+ for the episode, below average for the remastering. "The Enterprise Incident" was one of the few bright spots in season three, although the blatant sexism in this episode mars the viewing experience forty years later.

The visual F/X work was disappointing. Don't get me wrong; as I said over at trekmovie.com I think CBS Digital has done a sublime job on the background matte shots they've tackled. Unfortunately, the name of the series isn't Matte Trek. Overall, I just don't think that the space shots have been up to par with the planetside visuals, and the CGI in this episode did nothing to change that opinion.

 

[Maurice]

...Spock replies "I believe the Romulans have developed a cloaking device which renders our tracking sensors useless." So these two episodes don't contradict each other; rather, the second one builds on the first.

Indeed, it depends on how you inflect the line, doesn't it? It's Nimoy's delivery that creates the confusion. I'd love to see how the line is punctuated in the shooting script.

"I believe the Romulans have developed a cloaking device which renders our tracking sensors useless."

...is different than...

"I believe the Romulans have developed a cloaking device; which renders our tracking sensors useless."

The latter says they've developed a cloaking device [new thing], the former says they've developed a new kind. I mean, if he said "I believe the Romulans have developed a bomber which renders our radar useless," we'd take that to mean they made a stealthy airplane, not that they invented the airplane.

 

[Kelso]

Pretty good. I liked that they threw in a Bird of Prey and added Romulan markings to the battlecruisers.

Wow, Kelso, that's inspired. Where could they have gotten an idea like that?

I feel confident that Mike Okuda reads our comics and takes detailed notes.



Seriously.


No?


Oh well.

 

[Timo]

Hell, Starfleet even classified most of the details about the Delphic Expanse and the Xindi Crisis. And the Expanse was a region of space 2,000 light years across that countless species lived inside of or at least knew about! If Starfleet brass can classify the details of an entire region of outer space then simple cloak technology most people never even saw would be a piece of cake.

Just out of curiosity, is this for real? Did we hear somewhere that Starfleet would have classified the Expanse and the Xindi?

I mean, if it's just the fact that these are not mentioned again in Trek, it might have something to do with the adjoining fact that the Expanse no longer exists. Cloaks, however, continue to exist in the 23rd century, as (not!) seen, so lack of reference to them would be a somewhat different matter.

(Whether the Xindi still exist... I vote yes. Their nine starbases, one of them near Xindi Sabu; the mention of the possibly proximal Xindi Kabu system; and the outrageous attack of the Feline Xindi against Spock, Sulu and Uhura to obtain a stasis box... Obviously they are still alive and a-kicking, although probably no longer a prime threat to the Federation, and indeed probably an ally as far as "The Battle" suggests.)

So, what would Starfleet keep under wraps, even hiding it from its own personnel? Time travel, probably. Captains Esteban, Stiles and Terrell need not have known the first thing about the slingshot maneuver, lest they be tempted to use it, for evil or for well-intentioned evil. But the Famous Pulaski Mindwipe had not yet been perfected, so Kirk would retain memory of the trick.

Yet keeping cloaks under cloak doesn't seem logical, not when they are rather ubiquitous not only in ENT but eventually in TOS as well. But keeping certain details of the Romulan War secret would make sense, when given the politically delicate fact of who the enemy really was.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Cyrus]

the outrageous attack of the Feline Xindi against Spock, Sulu and Uhura to obtain a stasis box

Those were Kzinti (and it's not canon anyway )

 

[Timo]

YOU try pronouncing "Xindi" with a mouth full of fangs!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

the outrageous attack of the Feline Xindi against Spock, Sulu and Uhura to obtain a stasis box

Those were Kzinti (and it's not canon anyway )

It's more canon and consistent than ENT.

 

[Philo]

B+ for the episode, below average for the remastering. "The Enterprise Incident" was one of the few bright spots in season three, although the blatant sexism in this episode mars the viewing experience forty years later.

The visual F/X work was disappointing. Don't get me wrong; as I said over at trekmovie.com I think CBS Digital has done a sublime job on the background matte shots they've tackled. Unfortunately, the name of the series isn't Matte Trek. Overall, I just don't think that the space shots have been up to par with the planetside visuals, and the CGI in this episode did nothing to change that opinion.

Agreed, completely. The space shots have been average to middling throughout this whole endeavour. Even when the storyboarding or design work has been inspired it's always been let down by the rendering. Considering TOS has been made fun of for looking fake, it's sadly ironic that it looks moreso now. At least TOS's original effects didn't look out of date when they were new.

That said, I do appreciate the budget concerns and it has been a lot of fun to see what kind of stuff they come up with. It's just a shame that it had to be so half-assed.

 

[Warped9]

^^ This all comes down to the fact that the new f/x are not being made to look consistent with TOS' overall aesthetic. The new f/x are replete with things that couldn't or wouldn't have been done even with the best of available resources in the mid '60s.

To do new f/x right for TOS would have required not really just more time and money, but a wholly different mindset. As it is you have a committee mindset that's putting whatever shit they feel like doing for often arbitrary reasons.

I'm curious about the new f/x in one way, but with rare exception I think they've done an absolutely horrible job in remastering the episodes. The space shots in particular are so obviously not what the original creators might have envisioned and so obviously exactly like the type of f/x done in contemporary Trek.

This isn't about putting TOS on a pedestal. It's about taking into account the overall look of the series which was inarguably distinctly different from later Treks.

More specifically: imagine remastering the f/x of a film like Forbidden Planet with contemporary f/x like those in contemporary Trek.

 

[Philo]

Actually, that hasn't really bothered me. I've actually been surprised at how much they've adhered to the TOS aesthetic. There are some major violations but for the most part I've been okay with it. That is, except for the starfields. TOS's starfields were really beautiful and realistic looking. The new ones are incredibly boring and lack contrast. The stars are grey and washed out.

My major complaint with the effects is that nothing is even remotely photorealistic, and that's what I meant by fake. The originals at least looked like real objects.

EDIT: I should say though that where I do agree with you, Warped9, is where they're not treating this as some sort of special edition but rather as an actual replacement. There's simply nothing that excuses leaving the original editions off of the HD sets.

 

[Warped9]

My major complaint with the effects is that nothing is even remotely photorealistic, and that's what I meant by fake. The originals at least looked like real objects.

I agree. This has been a major sticking point with me as well.

When one says new f/x look cartoony it's not meant literally. For me to say something looks cartoony I mean to say it looks 2D and lacking in a sense of substance as if an actual object had been photographed. It's possible to attain this with cgi, but it takes a lot of time and skill.

 

[Philo]

It's true. These days I keep saying that video games are looking more and more like movies and movies are looking more and more like video games.

 

[Cyrus]

the outrageous attack of the Feline Xindi against Spock, Sulu and Uhura to obtain a stasis box

Those were Kzinti (and it's not canon anyway )

It's more canon and consistent than ENT.

It's been a long time since I have seen TAS (and I like it btw), but consistency was never a strong point for TOS. As for canon, I was talking about the official canon not the personal canon stuff. And that part of my post wasn't intended to be taken seriously anyway (hence the smiley). But don't let any opportunity to take a cheap shot at a spin-off show go to waste. As long as it makes you feel better it's OK with me.

 

[Warped9]

"Official" canon is meaningless. If TPTB can ignore what came before (and they repeatedly have) then why should some of us care about whatever TPTB may claim is "official?"

It's also part of the reason I don't participate in many discussion around here anymore outside my specialized projects. I love TOS, but one can no longer have a TOS discussion without someone parachuting in some latter Trek references that as far as some are concerned have zero bearing on the discussion at hand.

 

[cooleddie74]

I'm just glad the D7s still look like D7s...and nobody "sexed" them up to look "cooler" the way the new movie Enterprise has been mildly retconned to "live up to modern sensibilities and tastes."