Spoilers Star Trek Resurgence and Q-Zone

[Unimatrix Q]

Love this game and how it brought back the Tkon into the spotlight.

What I find especially interesting is that Resurgence's version of the Tkon seems to be at least partially based on the Q Continuum trilogy from @Greg Cox. Especially the way Tkon characters are named seems to be very similar to the novel.

And the radical subset of them in the game call themselves "Scions of the Flame", reminiscing the "Eternal Flame" as a symbol for their empire in Q-Zone.

Thoughts?

 

[Mike Doyle]

Which specific names do you think are similar? Guessing not the Portal’s.

The flame is the onscreen symbol of the T’kon

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Which specific names do you think are similar? Guessing not the Portal’s.

The flame is the onscreen symbol of the T’kon

Names like Manca ul Met (a tkonian name from Star Trek Resurgence) sound exactly like coming from the same language and naming conventions as the names of the Tkon characters of Q-Zone (e.g. Empress Glevi ut Sov).

 

[Stevil2001]

I would be pretty surprised if this wasn't down to something that @David cgc has talked about before—it's not that anyone working on Resurgence read Q-Zone, it's that they read the Memory Beta article "Tkon," which includes a list of all named Tkon characters.

 

[Extrocomp]

I would be pretty surprised if this wasn't down to something that @David cgc has talked about before—it's not that anyone working on Resurgence read Q-Zone, it's that they read the Memory Beta article "Tkon," which includes a list of all named Tkon characters.

The list of Tkon characters was only added to the article on 30 May 2023, after the game had already come out.

 

[Stevil2001]

The list of Tkon characters was only added to the article on 30 May 2023, after the game had already come out.

Ah, good catch. Someone did their diligence, then!

 

[Enterprise1701]

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/question-about-q-zone.149415/
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the-q-continuum-trilogy.180376/

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/star-trek-resurgence.312688/

Wow, it seems to have been many years since Greg Cox's TNG - The Q Continuum trilogy has been the title of a thread here, though I cannot guarantee my search was comprehensive as this site rejects "Q" and "Cox" as search queries.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/question-about-q-zone.149415/
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the-q-continuum-trilogy.180376/

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/star-trek-resurgence.312688/

Wow, it seems to have been many years since Greg Cox's TNG - The Q Continuum trilogy has been the title of a thread here, though I cannot guarantee my search was comprehensive as this site rejects "Q" and "Cox" as search queries.

It's really a shame, because these books still are among the best Trek novels and deserve a lot more love imho.

 

[Greg Cox]

It's really a shame, because these books still are among the best Trek novels and deserve a lot more love imho.

Thanks!

Needless to say, I've been following this thread with interest.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Thinking a bit about how much Portal looked like a human, although we still don't know if this was his real appearance, is it possible that humans and probably a few of the other humanoid species that really resemble baseline humans (but not the Klingons or the Cardassians who are genetically much more different) are descendants of Tkonian survivors?

Could probably partly explain Q's fascination about humans and also some of his benevolence toward humanity (shown for example by giving Picard and Starfleet a warning about the Borg in "Q, Who"). Maybe also fuelled by his regret for not stopping 0 and the others destroying the Tkon Empire, which he greatly admired.

 

[Extrocomp]

That would require ignoring a lot of fossil evidence. Human-looking species are extremely common in Star Trek, even existing in the Delta Quadrant.

According to Memory Beta, Tkon technology only responded to those with Tkon biology or those that were bioformed. That wouldn't be the case if humans were Tkon descendants.

 

[Christopher]

is it possible that humans and probably a few of the other humanoid species that really resemble baseline humans (but not the Klingons or the Cardassians who are genetically much more different) are descendants of Tkonian survivors?

TOS: "Return to Tomorrow" established that Sargon's people (known in the script as Arretians), who dated from around the same era as the Tkon (5-600,000 years ago), were likely the ancestors of many humanoid species, perhaps including Vulcans; but mercifully the script acknowledged that there's far too much scientific evidence of humans' evolutionary origin on Earth for us to have been seeded by "ancient astronauts." Like all humanoid species in the Trek galaxy, we descended from genetic seeds the Progenitors from "The Chase" planted in the primordial soup 4 billion years ago, but beyond that we evolved naturally on Earth (aside from a bit of interbreeding with Sky Spirits).

I tend to assume that the Arretians were the ancestors of the most humanoid-looking species like Vulcans, Betazoids, Deltans, Ocampa, etc., but certainly not of humans. I suggested in The Buried Age that the recurrent evolution of humanoids to a humanlike facial appearance is due to the evolutionary tendency toward neoteny, the preservation of infantile features (or lack of features) into adulthood. Humanoid babies in Trek tend to look more human than their adult forms (because it's impractical and cruel to try to put elaborate prosthetic makeup on a baby, and animatronics are expensive, though it's gotten easier to create alien babies in the CGI era), so our appearance can be taken as a simplified, infantile form without the distinctive features that other species develop as they mature. ("Humans have such weak foreheads," as an alien character observed in one of my early works.) So it stands to reason that the tendency toward neoteny would cause multiple humanoids to independently evolve toward a simplified appearance like ours, even if they weren't descended from the same humanoid forebears.

 

[CaptChris42]

Yeah, there's more to be mined about ancient Trek species and their links to each other. Arretians were definitely a big name in the past, roughly contemporary to the T'Kon (who also got a lot of exploration in the new Trek comic line, in Godshock in particular)

Also were around before the 'heyday' of the Iconians (although Star Trek Online extends their backstory considerably earlier)

We also have the Chodak, and the more obscure Azar, from Last Unicorn Games (who have similarities in their backstory, to maybe some of the above species, here and there)

 

[Unimatrix Q]

That would require ignoring a lot of fossil evidence. Human-looking species are extremely common in Star Trek, even existing in the Delta Quadrant.

According to Memory Beta, Tkon technology only responded to those with Tkon biology or those that were bioformed. That wouldn't be the case if humans were Tkon descendants.

Could be more about the mental signature of the Tkon than genetics, considering that at least some of their technology is based on psionics.

TOS: "Return to Tomorrow" established that Sargon's people (known in the script as Arretians), who dated from around the same era as the Tkon (5-600,000 years ago), were likely the ancestors of many humanoid species, perhaps including Vulcans; but mercifully the script acknowledged that there's far too much scientific evidence of humans' evolutionary origin on Earth for us to have been seeded by "ancient astronauts." Like all humanoid species in the Trek galaxy, we descended from genetic seeds the Progenitors from "The Chase" planted in the primordial soup 4 billion years ago, but beyond that we evolved naturally on Earth (aside from a bit of interbreeding with Sky Spirits).

I tend to assume that the Arretians were the ancestors of the most humanoid-looking species like Vulcans, Betazoids, Deltans, Ocampa, etc., but certainly not of humans. I suggested in The Buried Age that the recurrent evolution of humanoids to a humanlike facial appearance is due to the evolutionary tendency toward neoteny, the preservation of infantile features (or lack of features) into adulthood. Humanoid babies in Trek tend to look more human than their adult forms (because it's impractical and cruel to try to put elaborate prosthetic makeup on a baby, and animatronics are expensive, though it's gotten easier to create alien babies in the CGI era), so our appearance can be taken as a simplified, infantile form without the distinctive features that other species develop as they mature. ("Humans have such weak foreheads," as an alien character observed in one of my early works.) So it stands to reason that the tendency toward neoteny would cause multiple humanoids to independently evolve toward a simplified appearance like ours, even if they weren't descended from the same humanoid forebears.

That's true. But considering the sizes and technology abilities of these ancient empires, I guess it's possible that either the Arretians and/or the Tkon may have done some uplifting experiments on planets like Earth and Vulcan for example.

According to Resurgence the Tkon Empire encompassed many other species and planets. Perhaps they weren't averse to speed up and influence the evolution of them, not unlike the Changelings did with the ancestors of the Vorta.

 

[Christopher]

Yeah, there's more to be mined about ancient Trek species and their links to each other.

I resist the impulse to postulate "links" between species that have something in common, because it makes the universe feel smaller and more insular. The galaxy is immense. There are bound to be countless species that have similarities to each other by pure coincidence.

Although I did postulate in DTI: Watching the Clock that the cataclysmic war that destroyed the Talosians hundreds of thousands of years ago was the same one that destroyed the Arretians and involved other powerful telepathic species active at the time -- a "Telepathy War," if you will, to borrow a term from Marvel's 1990s Trek comics. I presumed a conflict massive and sweeping enough that it would've embroiled a wide range of different powers. I don't recall including the Tkon among the combatants, though.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

I resist the impulse to postulate "links" between species that have something in common, because it makes the universe feel smaller and more insular. The galaxy is immense. There are bound to be countless species that have similarities to each other by pure coincidence.

Although I did postulate in DTI: Watching the Clock that the cataclysmic war that destroyed the Talosians hundreds of thousands of years ago was the same one that destroyed the Arretians and involved other powerful telepathic species active at the time -- a "Telepathy War," if you will, to borrow a term from Marvel's 1990s Trek comics. I presumed a conflict massive and sweeping enough that it would've embroiled a wide range of different powers. I don't recall including the Tkon among the combatants, though.

What I find a bit strange (just for in-universe reasons, the out-of-universe reasons are obvious) is that there are a lot of humanoids in Star Trek that resemble humans almost to a tee, while with the exception of the Mintakans so far we never met ones that 100 percently resemble other Star Trek humanoids, like the Klingons, the Bajorans or the Cardassians for example.

Think that's a reason why I think it would make sense for the really humanlike species to be related or genetically engineered by one of the Ancient Empires, probably long after the seeding of planets by the Progenitors.

 

[Christopher]

What I find a bit strange (just for in-universe reasons, the out-of-universe reasons are obvious) is that there are a lot of humanoids in Star Trek that resemble humans almost to a tee, while with the exception of the Mintakans so far we never met ones that 100 percently resemble other Star Trek humanoids, like the Klingons, the Bajorans or the Cardassians for example.

Well, there were some Alpha/Beta Quadrant makeups from TNG & DS9 that got recycled as Delta Quadrant makeups in VGR, so those could be cases of lookalikes of other species. I think it was the Promellian makeup in TNG: "Booby Trap" that got recycled as one or two other species later, though I implied in one of my books that those other species are surviving descendants of the Promellians.

As for Bajorans, they're probably related to the Ornarans and Brekkans from TNG: "Symbiosis," and the other "subtle nose ridge" aliens that Michael Westmore designed for episodes where they had a lot of alien guest stars and needed a simple makeup.

And I would argue that the Ocampa are probably Vulcanoids, since they're telepaths with pointed ears. I also think the Talarians from TNG: "Suddenly Human" may be a Klingon offshoot. They're a bumpy-headed warrior culture, and Klingons have a wide enough range of phenotypic variation that Talarians could easily be another variant.

 

[Avro Arrow]

What I find a bit strange (just for in-universe reasons, the out-of-universe reasons are obvious) is that there are a lot of humanoids in Star Trek that resemble humans almost to a tee, while with the exception of the Mintakans so far we never met ones that 100 percently resemble other Star Trek humanoids, like the Klingons, the Bajorans or the Cardassians for example.

I thought I remembered the Radun as a peace-loving species that looked like the Klingons, but I just checked the book and they are actually mentioned as originally being Klingon colonists. (From "millenia [sic] ago", somehow.)

 

[CaptChris42]

I resist the impulse to postulate "links" between species that have something in common, because it makes the universe feel smaller and more insular. The galaxy is immense. There are bound to be countless species that have similarities to each other by pure coincidence.

Although I did postulate in DTI: Watching the Clock that the cataclysmic war that destroyed the Talosians hundreds of thousands of years ago was the same one that destroyed the Arretians and involved other powerful telepathic species active at the time -- a "Telepathy War," if you will, to borrow a term from Marvel's 1990s Trek comics. I presumed a conflict massive and sweeping enough that it would've embroiled a wide range of different powers. I don't recall including the Tkon among the combatants, though.

Oh, I overall agree - but the shear number of such species to arise within a relatively small distance of Earth, Romulus and other nearby polities, and sometimes within a similar time period, does kind of invite that sort of speculation, from time to time.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Well, there were some Alpha/Beta Quadrant makeups from TNG & DS9 that got recycled as Delta Quadrant makeups in VGR, so those could be cases of lookalikes of other species. I think it was the Promellian makeup in TNG: "Booby Trap" that got recycled as one or two other species later, though I implied in one of my books that those other species are surviving descendants of the Promellians.

As for Bajorans, they're probably related to the Ornarans and Brekkans from TNG: "Symbiosis," and the other "subtle nose ridge" aliens that Michael Westmore designed for episodes where they had a lot of alien guest stars and needed a simple makeup.

And I would argue that the Ocampa are probably Vulcanoids, since they're telepaths with pointed ears. I also think the Talarians from TNG: "Suddenly Human" may be a Klingon offshoot. They're a bumpy-headed warrior culture, and Klingons have a wide enough range of phenotypic variation that Talarians could easily be another variant.

Good point about the Ornarans, the Brekkians and the Talarians. But the differences between the Ocampa and Vulcans are too big for them to belong to the vulcanoid species. Especially their life expectancy and some other aspects like the elogium and other physical differences are too big. Maybe I've forgotten something but we also never seen them having green blood.