Spoilers Star Trek: Prodigy 1x01/02 - "Lost and Found"

[Mark 2000]

I think that was just Dal being racist against rock people.

I think it's the internalized misogyny of the writers, but YMMV

This show is like 50 years overdue. We needed to get out of Starfleet a long time ago in this franchise. Picard made some headway in that direction but this show finally is Starfleet free, really.

I don't disagree. One of my goals with my webcomic was to do stories that were from a different perspective than a ship/crew. Out of 10 storylines, only three are the typical starfleet ship setting.

 

[Tuskin38]

it's the same composer, so if anything he’s ripping himself.

He only did the main theme, the credits say someone else is doing the actual series music.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I think it's the internalized misogyny of the writers, but YMMV

It is a pretty nasty and misogynist idea that a non-slender bodytype must be that of a male as well as brutish.

Which is what the concept is a push back for.

 

[Yistaan]

I think it's the internalized misogyny of the writers, but YMMV


I don't disagree. One of my goals with my webcomic was to do stories that were from a different perspective than a ship/crew. Out of 10 storylines, only three are the typical starfleet ship setting.

It is a pretty nasty and misogynist idea that a non-slender bodytype must be that of a male as well as brutish.

Which is what the concept is a push back for.

Life is difficult enough as it is without accusations on a public forum of real life people being misogynist or other-ist based on statements solely about fictional characters. If there's evidence of real life wrongdoing fine, but when talking about fictional characters on a kids' show, that's a serious accusation to be throwing around and could possibly be defamatory.

theforce net forum for that other Star franchise had people, including mods, eagerly engaging in that sort of thing and I'd like to think the people here on these boards are better than that.

Dredlock is a Gen. Grievous rip-off.

You fool, I have been trained in your Starfleet arts by Section 31!

 

[Charles Phipps]

Life is difficult enough as it is without accusations on a public forum of real life people being misogynist or other-ist based on statements solely about fictional characters. If there's evidence of real life wrongdoing fine, but when talking about fictional characters on a kids' show, that's a serious accusation to be throwing around and could possibly be defamatory.

theforce net forum for that other Star franchise had people, including mods, eagerly engaging in that sort of thing and I'd like to think the people here on these boards are better than that.

It should be noted that I am speaking of the metaphor in the show and not fellow posters. The aesop of the scene is "don't judge someone by appearances" which seems to be a blindingly obvious one to do in Star Trek. The young girl looks like an intimidating rock monster but is a sweet and kind person with a heart of gold. I feel like reading making the rock person a violent and brutish monster (good guy or not) is kind of feeding into the stereotype it is deliberately subverting.

I'm fairly sure some big and rough looking people (like myself) would have appreciated that as a child.

 

[Yistaan]

Dal (cuts down Drednok with a bat'leth, then tosses it away): So uncivilized!

Emperor Kahless (who shows up out of nowhere): Hey!

 

[Mark 2000]

It is a pretty nasty and misogynist idea that a non-slender bodytype must be that of a male as well as brutish.
Which is what the concept is a push back for.

Yeah. That's not what I said. It's misogynist to believe that no matter what the outward appearance of a woman, she has to be dainty and meek at heart. This concept feeds directly into that.

 

[Brobdingnag]

The idea that a female character should be dainty and sweet is also prejudiced. Here on Earth, we have species like the Black Widow where the female is like ten times the size of the male, and as a thank, you for sex the female catches the male and eats it. There's no reason why alien species should conform to humancentric paradigms.

 

[UssGlenn]

Yeah. That's not what I said. It's misogynist to believe that no matter what the outward appearance of a woman, she has to be dainty and meek at heart. This concept feeds directly into that.

Look, you can only subvert so many ideas at once before it starts eating it's own tail. You make her physically intimidating with a gruff personality to match, you've come back around to Butch stereotype.

 

[Sakonna]

Well, we also have Janeway and Gwyn, neither of whom I imagine will be filling a dainty or sweet role in this cast.

But do we even know that Rok-Tahk is a female character? Before the premiere I was unclear if this character was a girl, or a boy voiced by a female performer in classic Bart Simpson tradition. I felt no more clear on the character's gender at the end of the pilot. Did I miss the reference to Rok-Tahk being a girl instead of a boy?

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I see the point about Rok Tok. However, I didn’t see her as being dainty and meek, but rather as a young, shy unsure child. The character is 8 years old and voiced by the youngest child actor.

I felt Dal’s reaction was that he was expecting someone older and male, not a young girl.

 

[Brobdingnag]

Well, we also have Janeway and Gwyn, neither of whom I imagine will be filling a dainty or sweet role in this cast.

But do we even know that Rok-Tahk is a female character? Before the premiere I was unclear if this character was a girl, or a boy voiced by a female performer in classic Bart Simpson tradition. I felt no more clear on the character's gender at the end of the pilot. Did I miss the reference to Rok-Tahk being a girl instead of a boy?

For all we know he/she/they could even be androgynous.

 

[jackoverfull]

He only did the main theme, the credits say someone else is doing the actual series music.

good point. I guess they want to be coherent then.

 

[Noname Given]

It was something. I guess I approached it wrong. About 50% of lower decks episodes, I can show my 4 year old (after pre-watching) and she enjoys them. This premiere scared her with it's themes. The villain is too evil and dominant of the theme in the show for a star trek + kids show.

I don't think it's skewed/aimed at kids as young as 4. After seeing it, they seem to be aiming for 10-12 year olds here.

Lie others have said it's a quite different take on Trek - and after 18 years of recycled Berman Trek era stories/plot structures/setup, that's NOT a bad thing. I'll give the Kurtzman era this - he's not just constantly recycling the same old basic premise and Trek setup with each show he greenlights, so yeah (IMO) that's a plus and probably why someone is always screaming "NOT TREK" at some point.

I honestly never liked ST: V (gave up watching it past "The 37's" - and never cared for how the Janeway character was written in the episodes I did sit through). What I saw here at least made me want to give the show at least one or two more episodes to see just where they take it.

And yes, there are (IMO) parts poof the setup that are ridiculous - IE with the resources at his disposal IF the ship was exclusively what the villain was looking for - yes, he should have found it sooner. When the 'Hero' finds it by accident, and manages to walk all over the mine to recruit the 'crew' before the villain and his cohorts even know what's going on - OR - if they did, they let him continue without moving in immediately to secure the ship...But hey, that's both a part of a show like this and even in more 'mature' Star Trek, we've had even more ridiculous 'idiot ball' plot contrivances.

I was going to give it a pass, but curiosity got the better of me; and yeah, overall, it's not the worst Star Trek by a long shot and was a fairly fresh take so far. I gave it an 8.

 

[Mark 2000]

Look, you can only subvert so many ideas at once before it starts eating it's own tail. You make her physically intimidating with a gruff personality to match, you've come back around to Butch stereotype.

I don't really know what you mean by "butch stereotype". I don't see anything wrong with a large girl even with a child's voice that simply doesn't cross her knees and twiddle her fingers like Shirley Temple.

 

[Tuskin38]

The Star Cluster that Dal mentions, 'The Window of Dreams', that's from Voyager
https://twitter.com/GoodAaron/status/1454098150738694151

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I think the setup for the show is fantastic.

The dialog though is so clearly aimed at a Nickelodeon audience as opposed to Lower Decks being broadly accessible to kids and adults, I’m not sure I’m interested in watching it.

 

[Yistaan]

I think the setup for the show is fantastic.

The dialog though is so clearly aimed at a Nickelodeon audience as opposed to Lower Decks being broadly accessible to kids and adults, I’m not sure I’m interested in watching it.

I just don't see how Lower Decks is accessible to kids as all. Even as an adult (late 30s) I found it so bad that I just quit it outright mid episode 5. I never did that with any Trek show, not even Voyager or Enterprise.

Prodigy seems to be accessible to both kids and adults to me.

 

[Tuskin38]

I don't think it's skewed/aimed at kids as young as 4. After seeing it, they seem to be aiming for 10-12 year olds here.

in Canada they rated it PG. Though I can't remember what the exact disclaimer was.

I found it so bad

How many episodes did you watch? because it got a lot better, especially Season 2.

 

[Noname Given]

That Zero was telepathic caught me off-guard as well. I recently re-watched Is There in Truth no Beauty specifically for the purposes of preparing for Prodigy, and I really don't recall any mention of it there. It was Miranda Jones who was the telepath. If Kollos was telepathic, why did they need Doctor Jones?

The whole point of the Federation interaction with the Medusans was finding someone who could completely/effectively mind link with a Medusan so that they (as non-corporeal beings) could be used as navigators/crew on Federation starships.

Her going with Kolos to the Medusan homeworld to achieve that is the entire plot of the episode and why she's so upset, and at first unwilling to help Spock, because he successfully did what she was expecting to do. They do both have 'interactions' with the Medusan before the incident where the ship gets trapped in 'The Barrier'. As Medusans have no mouth or vocal cords, they'd have to have some telepathic ability to be able to achieve such a link.
^^^
As to why Zero's telepathic abilities are now more 'fully functional'; hey, it's 120+ years since the events of TOS S3 - "Is There In Truth No Beauty"; so one can assume the Medusans and the Federation DID find ways to more effectively telepathically communicate.