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Spoilers Star Trek: Picard General Discussion Thread

Because it's hitting them harder than Discovery did. With DSC, it was just the general "What have they done to Star Trek?!" With Picard, it hits them closer to home. It's not general, it's specific. It's "What the Hell have they done to the Star Trek I grew up with?! #NotMyPicard!" The "criticisms" will be even more stringent, forced, and closed-minded. It hit them where it hurts for daring to be what it is and not something produced by Rick Berman that came out in 1994. Any similarities to Discovery (real or perceived) will drive them even further over the edge.

What's the solution tho? (I'm really wondering.) Even if Berman went back to Trek and even if he made a show again, they would complain all over again in no time (partly because, as someone said, hate brings more clicks, but also because the same people who complained about ENT and hated on Berman and Braga are the ones who demand for them to return now - but their loyalties would shift just as quickly again). Gene Roddenberry himself could come back and make another show and they'd hate it. Sure, they all love The Orville and whatnot, but that's because to them Orville looks like Trek without actually BEING in the Trek universe. It's easy to point at it and say "this is what we want for Trek". They can enjoy it without the burden of Trek canon behind it. The moment the Trek universe is the playground, canon (which seems to be EVERYTHING to them) plays a role, and that's where their "fun" stops.

I always wonder why they don't just go ahead and admit that THEY want to be in charge of Trek because obviously only THEY know what's best for it. /suuuure
 
Out of curiosity, which content providers are those? I'm getting vids from people I disagree with all the way down the line; I think the YouTube algorithm has figured out that I like to hatewatch stuff and then crap on it in the comment threads.
 
Out of curiosity, which content providers are those? I'm getting vids from people I disagree with all the way down the line; I think the YouTube algorithm has figured out that I like to hatewatch stuff and then crap on it in the comment threads.

LOL... The Critical Drinker is the person I listen to most as far as movie/TV reviews. Apparently he's a writer and he's able to articulate his thoughts and feelings pretty well in an often humorous way. Every once in a while, Nerdrotic. These two will sometimes do live streams together with others such as BowelsTrek or Doomcock, whom I really don't watch.
 
What's the solution tho? (I'm really wondering.) Even if Berman went back to Trek and even if he made a show again, they would complain all over again in no time (partly because, as someone said, hate brings more clicks, but also because the same people who complained about ENT and hated on Berman and Braga are the ones who demand for them to return now - but their loyalties would shift just as quickly again). Gene Roddenberry himself could come back and make another show and they'd hate it. Sure, they all love The Orville and whatnot, but that's because to them Orville looks like Trek without actually BEING in the Trek universe. It's easy to point at it and say "this is what we want for Trek". They can enjoy it without the burden of Trek canon behind it. The moment the Trek universe is the playground, canon (which seems to be EVERYTHING to them) plays a role, and that's where their "fun" stops.

I always wonder why they don't just go ahead and admit that THEY want to be in charge of Trek because obviously only THEY know what's best for it. /suuuure
To ignore them and let them tire themselves out. They expect to be argued with, to be challenged and to be maligned. It validates their position.

So, let them have their tantrum.
 
To ignore them and let them tire themselves out. They expect to be argued with, to be challenged and to be maligned. It validates their position.

So, let them have their tantrum.

Oh, I agree. Last thing I'd ever do would be to engage (hurr hurr) in conversation with any of them. And yeah, they love to play the "everyone is so mean to us for spreading nothing but hate about PIC" victims. (I have nothing against constructive criticism, mind, but these people have been getting on my nerves for months now with their hate videos and their lies and half-truths about Sir Patrick that all come from their precious "trusted sources"... aka 4chan and reddit.)
 
What's the solution tho? (I'm really wondering.) Even if Berman went back to Trek and even if he made a show again, they would complain all over again in no time (partly because, as someone said, hate brings more clicks, but also because the same people who complained about ENT and hated on Berman and Braga are the ones who demand for them to return now - but their loyalties would shift just as quickly again). Gene Roddenberry himself could come back and make another show and they'd hate it. Sure, they all love The Orville and whatnot, but that's because to them Orville looks like Trek without actually BEING in the Trek universe. It's easy to point at it and say "this is what we want for Trek". They can enjoy it without the burden of Trek canon behind it. The moment the Trek universe is the playground, canon (which seems to be EVERYTHING to them) plays a role, and that's where their "fun" stops.

I always wonder why they don't just go ahead and admit that THEY want to be in charge of Trek because obviously only THEY know what's best for it. /suuuure

They have a right to their opinion, no matter how shitty or hypocritical it is, as long as it doesn't cross over into slander or defamation of character.

They're going to be negative no matter what. What's useful is to know what they're complaining about. Do they have a point, do they have to distort things, or are they just outright trash-talking and sounding ignorant? If they have to stretch and make shit up, they have nothing. If that's the best they can come up with to attack Picard, then we know the show is standing on solid ground. They see Alex Kurtzman as The Enemy and are trying to hit him with everything they've got. If they have more, or they had better, they would've used it. So all of this is very good to know.

EDIT: Not the same thing but people have trash-talked me before. Including some who thought it was behind my back. I don't dignify them with a response because then that would give them a legitimacy they don't deserve.

Alex Kurtzman, CBS, and the Star Trek cast and crew must feel the same way about situations that apply to them. They're the bigger people.
 
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Oh, I agree. Last thing I'd ever do would be to engage (hurr hurr) in conversation with any of them. And yeah, they love to play the "everyone is so mean to us for spreading nothing but hate about PIC" victims. (I have nothing against constructive criticism, mind, but these people have been getting on my nerves for months now with their hate videos and their lies and half-truths about Sir Patrick that all come from their precious "trusted sources"... aka 4chan and reddit.)
But, you won't prove them wrong, and won't shut them down. Facts are irrelevant in this case, and if it crosses a line of slander or defamation (as @Lord Garth notes) then there is legal recourse for people to utilize.
 
During Discovery's first season, I had a theory that the Romulans were behind everything (T'Kuvma's mission, pushing the Klingons against the Federation by providing cloaking technology), which I still believe but is less and less likely to ever be shown to us, especially now that the Romulans (seem to be)/are the Big Bad of Picard.

But after watching the two episodes of Picard, I decided to reverse this theory and wonder: What if the Klingons are the bad guys of Picard? And in doing so, I stumbled upon a dark, horrible theory that I will get to in a little bit.

So, first: how and why would the Klingons be the bad guys in Picard? We see that the Romulans, specifically the Zhat Vash, are doing nefarious things. But it's all been shown to us and tied up in a neat bow. Something more must be revealed, beyond Maddox, the Synths, the Romulans, and their connection with the Borg Cube.

In All Good Things, which Picard is heavily based on (combadges, Picard's illness and retirement), the fate of the Romulan people is to be conquered by the Klingons. In the current continuity, the Romulan star blew up, and they apparently survived the conquest somehow. Could the Klingons be attempting to conquer the Romulans? Could they be behind the supernova?

No. There's no evidence of that. They did lose their moon to mining, but it's unlikely the Klingons could do an unprovoked attack on the Romulan star, and the Romulans apparently had two years to flee after the star begin acting wonky.

And there's been no mention or reference to the Klingons except for one: Worf. Worf was referenced in the second episode as a comrade of Picard's who would jump at the chance to help him (I dispute this, but Picard doesn't). In the first episode, we actually see an image of Worf (a still from Sins of the Father, I believe) alongside Picard on the news. So they're subtly reminding us of Worf's existence more than any other TNG character (except Riker).

In All Good Things, Worf was a Klingon Governor. He had a similar posting in Star Trek Online. This conflates with DS9's conceit that he left Starfleet (or at least, active service) following the Dominion War, and would be at the service of the Empire. As a respected member of the Chancellor's House, this is likely.

So, when Worf inevitably appears (note: CBS has been surprisingly emphatic that Dorn is not in Picard, despite him accidentally signing an autograph for the cinematographer alongside all of the Picard cast...), his role will likely be in connection to the Klingon Empire and the Klingon conspiracy.

Worf hates Romulans. They murdered his family and attacked his colony when he was a young boy. But he's a moral man, you say? Well, every other episode, he had to be pushed into doing the ethical thing (note: not Klingon honor) when it came to donating blood to a Romulan or not murdering that kid. But he still killed Duras. He will set aside his Starfleet values for the values of his House, his people.

Twenty years surrounded by Klingons may have warped Worf's mind. Starfleet values may hold little to him, in regards to the Empire. He respects Picard, as his superior for so many years, but if Picard were to ask him to work with the Romulans, he will say no.

Worf is a security expert. He's also a strategist. He knows the costs of war, and how to wage one. The Romulans are in disarray, some clinging to Borg cubes, some hiding in plain sight within Starfleet. Now is the time to strike. Worf, and his allies in the Klingon Empire, are planning to conquer what parts of the Romulan Star Empire they don't already control.

But that leads to an insidious thought. What if Worf is behind the synth attack, in order to stop Starfleet from helping the Romulan people? What if he kidnapped Maddox (who he knew from the TNG episode) and used him to reprogram the synths? What if Worf actually used a tricobalt Dominion weapon to destroy the Romulan sun (which he nearly witnessed in DS9)?

Worf is the most prolific Star Trek character. He has seen everything that went on in TNG and the back half (good half) of DS9. He knows the Borg, he knows the Dominion. He has defeated both. He is the franchise's biggest proponent of overwhelming force, kept in check for a time by Picard and a little by Sisko. But no longer. With the Chancellor's approval, Worf has free reign to do as he pleases for the good of the Empire. For his own twisted good of Starfleet. And against the Romulans he despises with all his soul.

La Forge is alive, despite evidence in the comics to the contrary. I think somebody called and gave him a heads up.
 
I think they really kicked the arse out of the klingons in Discovery - pretty boring to have them be a big part of Picard.
 
This conflates with DS9's conceit that he left Starfleet (or at least, active service) following the Dominion War, and would be at the service of the Empire. As a respected member of the Chancellor's House, this is likely.
I would have to revisit it but I thought he was sent as an Ambassador to the Kronos.
 
I think they really kicked the arse out of the klingons in Discovery - pretty boring to have them be a big part of Picard.

Season 2 of Discovery involved a lot of "fixing" Season 1's "mistakes". They redid the Klingon design to be more in line with other shows.

Picard offers them an opportunity to return to the classic TNG-era Klingon design to much-lauded applause. They showed Worf in that archive photo, and Kurtzman has gone on record that, if Worf were to appear, he would look like in TNG (except older).

This isn't the Klingons as the bad guys: it's an unexpected heel turn of a major character (the most prolific character in all of Star Trek) ultimately resulting in a Picard vs. Worf dramatic showdown.
 
I would have to revisit it but I thought he was sent as an Ambassador to the Kronos.

Federation Ambassador to Qo'noS (who could go targ hunting with Picard), and he showed up in uniform with no explanation (other than maybe going to Riker's wedding) in Star Trek Nemesis four years later, but my assumption was that he left active Starfleet service to serve (as a Federation diplomat) in Klingon space. And, per All Good Things, this could be what leads him to becoming the Governor of H'atoria.

The novels have him resigning his Ambassadorship to rejoin Starfleet, and becoming Picard's XO, but no canon source supports this. All we know right now is that the two Romulans are familiar with him (at least by reputation), and he might be a big enough figure to post his image with Picard on the Federation News Network.
 
Federation Ambassador to Qo'noS (who could go targ hunting with Picard), and he showed up in uniform with no explanation (other than maybe going to Riker's wedding) in Star Trek Nemesis four years later, but my assumption was that he left active Starfleet service to serve (as a Federation diplomat) in Klingon space. And, per All Good Things, this could be what leads him to becoming the Governor of H'atoria.

The novels have him resigning his Ambassadorship to rejoin Starfleet, and becoming Picard's XO, but no canon source supports this. All we know right now is that the two Romulans are familiar with him (at least by reputation), and he might be a big enough figure to post his image with Picard on the Federation News Network.
I really liked the ambassador angle for him and I really dislike the idea that he would have given up, at least so quickly.
 
Federation Ambassador to Qo'noS (who could go targ hunting with Picard), and he showed up in uniform with no explanation (other than maybe going to Riker's wedding) in Star Trek Nemesis four years later, but my assumption was that he left active Starfleet service to serve (as a Federation diplomat) in Klingon space. And, per All Good Things, this could be what leads him to becoming the Governor of H'atoria.
He definitely seemed to be back to being a regular part of the crew by the time of Nemesis, if he hadn't I would have expected there to be some kind of an explanation for why he was back aboard, like we got in First Contact and Insurrection.
I'm really hoping he became Captain of the Enterprise after Picard got promoted.
Trek Collective has posted some new character bios for the Picard characters that reveal quite a bit of new information.
Hugh is the executive director of the Borg Reclamation Project on "The Artifact"
Elnor is an orphan who was raised by an all female Romulan religious order called Qowat Milat
Agnes Jurati is an ex-Starfleet Officer.
 
During Discovery's first season, I had a theory that the Romulans were behind everything (T'Kuvma's mission, pushing the Klingons against the Federation by providing cloaking technology), which I still believe but is less and less likely to ever be shown to us, especially now that the Romulans (seem to be)/are the Big Bad of Picard.

But after watching the two episodes of Picard, I decided to reverse this theory and wonder: What if the Klingons are the bad guys of Picard? And in doing so, I stumbled upon a dark, horrible theory that I will get to in a little bit.

So, first: how and why would the Klingons be the bad guys in Picard? We see that the Romulans, specifically the Zhat Vash, are doing nefarious things. But it's all been shown to us and tied up in a neat bow. Something more must be revealed, beyond Maddox, the Synths, the Romulans, and their connection with the Borg Cube.

In All Good Things, which Picard is heavily based on (combadges, Picard's illness and retirement), the fate of the Romulan people is to be conquered by the Klingons. In the current continuity, the Romulan star blew up, and they apparently survived the conquest somehow. Could the Klingons be attempting to conquer the Romulans? Could they be behind the supernova?

No. There's no evidence of that. They did lose their moon to mining, but it's unlikely the Klingons could do an unprovoked attack on the Romulan star, and the Romulans apparently had two years to flee after the star begin acting wonky.

And there's been no mention or reference to the Klingons except for one: Worf. Worf was referenced in the second episode as a comrade of Picard's who would jump at the chance to help him (I dispute this, but Picard doesn't). In the first episode, we actually see an image of Worf (a still from Sins of the Father, I believe) alongside Picard on the news. So they're subtly reminding us of Worf's existence more than any other TNG character (except Riker).

In All Good Things, Worf was a Klingon Governor. He had a similar posting in Star Trek Online. This conflates with DS9's conceit that he left Starfleet (or at least, active service) following the Dominion War, and would be at the service of the Empire. As a respected member of the Chancellor's House, this is likely.

So, when Worf inevitably appears (note: CBS has been surprisingly emphatic that Dorn is not in Picard, despite him accidentally signing an autograph for the cinematographer alongside all of the Picard cast...), his role will likely be in connection to the Klingon Empire and the Klingon conspiracy.

Worf hates Romulans. They murdered his family and attacked his colony when he was a young boy. But he's a moral man, you say? Well, every other episode, he had to be pushed into doing the ethical thing (note: not Klingon honor) when it came to donating blood to a Romulan or not murdering that kid. But he still killed Duras. He will set aside his Starfleet values for the values of his House, his people.

Twenty years surrounded by Klingons may have warped Worf's mind. Starfleet values may hold little to him, in regards to the Empire. He respects Picard, as his superior for so many years, but if Picard were to ask him to work with the Romulans, he will say no.

Worf is a security expert. He's also a strategist. He knows the costs of war, and how to wage one. The Romulans are in disarray, some clinging to Borg cubes, some hiding in plain sight within Starfleet. Now is the time to strike. Worf, and his allies in the Klingon Empire, are planning to conquer what parts of the Romulan Star Empire they don't already control.

But that leads to an insidious thought. What if Worf is behind the synth attack, in order to stop Starfleet from helping the Romulan people? What if he kidnapped Maddox (who he knew from the TNG episode) and used him to reprogram the synths? What if Worf actually used a tricobalt Dominion weapon to destroy the Romulan sun (which he nearly witnessed in DS9)?

Worf is the most prolific Star Trek character. He has seen everything that went on in TNG and the back half (good half) of DS9. He knows the Borg, he knows the Dominion. He has defeated both. He is the franchise's biggest proponent of overwhelming force, kept in check for a time by Picard and a little by Sisko. But no longer. With the Chancellor's approval, Worf has free reign to do as he pleases for the good of the Empire. For his own twisted good of Starfleet. And against the Romulans he despises with all his soul.

La Forge is alive, despite evidence in the comics to the contrary. I think somebody called and gave him a heads up.
Picard: Mr. Worf, you have a lot of explaining to do.

Worf: You dishonorable d'blok! First you try to evacuate the Romulan jagh who murdered my family!

Picard: Mr. Worf, surely after all these years you can't hold all Romulans responsible for...

Worf: Then you hire Tal Shiar spies to work in your vineyard! Spies who ordered the Khitomer massacre!

Picard: Hmm, I guess Laris and Zhaban did neglect to mention that part of their careers...

Worf: So I reprogrammed the androids to wipe out your Romulan "rescue" fleet, and ensured all Romulans would die the dishonorable deaths they deserve! And now, I will kill you where you stand! :klingon:
 
As long as we don't see the Romulans nor hear about them in the Georgiou/Pike timeframe they can do what they want. T'Kuvma's Klingons got cloaking technology from somewhere and it wasn't from the Klingon Empire.
 
Even positive-review videos often have misleadingly negative headlines just to grab those sweet clicks.

I'm pretty sure that RedLetterMedia are actually fans of the new series, they just saw all the backlash coming, and are still suffering from their overwhelming praise of The Force Awakens, so they use their occassional reviews for joke peddling and some hidden soft praise.
 
I'm pretty sure that RedLetterMedia are actually fans of the new series, they just saw all the backlash coming, and are still suffering from their overwhelming praise of The Force Awakens, so they use their occassional reviews for joke peddling and some hidden soft praise.

TFA was the last video I watched by those a-holes and I wouldn't call it "overwhelming praise."

But since I have paid them exactly zero mind since then, I can't comment on anything else you said.
 
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