given that I hated that ending (Data with a death wish? When they could build him a new body?!) I’m loving this development.
works for me!
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x07 - "Dominion"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Here's the thing...Cortez isn't going on and on about it in a vacuum. It takes two to tango. When somebody is dogpiled on and repeatedly challenged for having their opinion, it's a natural response for them to defend their opinion. These things wouldn't go on for pages and pages if the people who are enjoying the show knew how let other people not enjoy the show without shouting them down.
It's easier to give people looks when you're not wearing a hair band over your eyes.
… they could have just blockcaded the wormhole. Those 2000 ships they lost for example would easily be able to do that. End of threat.
(and it was so easy the Federation could do it also).
If there was a rogue group of CIA officers performing terrorists acts in furtherance of American interests, the US government was aware of their existence, and American officials were conspiring to help them with those operations, would anyone really believe the United States wasn't responsible for their actions or held responsibility for stopping it?
Same dynamic whenever you read about a rogue group of police officers within some city departments that beat the hell out of suspects and are stealing money from drug dealers. Do people accept the excuse that "well that's not really the LAPD, that's just some bad apples going off on their own"?
The responsibility ultimately lies with those that condone their actions and have an ability to stop it.
Yeah or just don't click on the thread that says "Episode 7" or "the episode I haven't seen yet". I personally haven't posted any spoilers but I had the common sense to come onto the thread AFTER I finished watching the episode!
Those fragments are not what make up data's current consciousness In PIC. Before Data sacrificed himself in NEM he uploaded his entire consciousness to B4 and B4's body was stored at daystrom as we could see in the previous episode. So it is essentially the 'whole' of data bar the emotion chip. It's arguable that Data was able to form new emotional type pathways in his positronic matrix to at least mimic the effects of his emotion chip which would explain his 'confusion' when seeing Picard and Geordi. On the other hand his apparent emotional response following his revival could simply be the side affects of the other Soong androids being present in his brain.
They were bad guys in DSC Season 2 as well. No one liked them.
Time to dig up exact dialogue. To clear this up one way or another in general.
The Deep Space Nine Transcripts - Inquisition (chakoteya.net)
BASHIR: So, why don't you tell me who you are? Who you work for?
SLOAN: I would think it's obvious. The same people you work for. The Federation. Starfleet.
BASHIR: You don't expect me to believe you're with Internal Affairs, do you?
SLOAN: No, of course not. Internal Affairs is a competent department, but limited.
BASHIR: So which department are you with?
SLOAN: Let's just say I belong to another branch of Starfleet Intelligence. Our official designation is Section thirty one.
BASHIR: Never heard of it.
SLOAN: We keep a low profile. Works out better that way for all concerned.
BASHIR: And what does Section thirty one do, apart from kidnapping Starfleet officers?
SLOAN: We search out and identify potential dangers to the Federation.
BASHIR: And once identified?
SLOAN: We deal with them.
BASHIR: How?
SLOAN: Quietly.
BASHIR: So if I had been a Dominion agent, what would have happened to me?
SLOAN: We wouldn't be standing here having this conversation.
BASHIR: And Starfleet sanctions what you're doing?
SLOAN: We don't submit reports or ask for approval for specific operations, if that's what you mean. We're an autonomous department.
BASHIR: Authorised by whom?
SLOAN: Section thirty one was part of the original Starfleet charter.
BASHIR: But that was two hundred years ago. Are you telling me you've been working on your own ever since? Without specific orders? Accountable to nobody but yourselves?
SLOAN: You make it sound so ominous.
BASHIR: Isn't it? Because if what you say to me is true, you function as judge, jury and executioner, and I think that's too much power for anyone.
SLOAN: I admit it takes exceptional people to do what we do. People who can sublimate their own ambitions to the best interests of the Federation. People like you.
BASHIR: Me?
SLOAN: You have all the qualifications to be a very useful member of Section thirty one.
BASHIR: A few minutes ago, you were calling me a traitor and now you want to recruit me?
SLOAN: Well, you're intelligent, you're resourceful, you've always been fascinated by covert operations. Why else would you spend so much time in Quark's holosuites playing spy?
BASHIR: You're serious.
SLOAN: We're on the same team. We believe in the same principles that every other Federation citizen holds dear.
BASHIR: Yet you violate those principles as a matter of course.
SLOAN: In order to protect them.
BASHIR: No, I'm sorry, but the ends don't always justify the means.
SLOAN: Really. How many lives do you suppose you've saved in your medical career?
BASHIR: What has that got to do with anything?
SLOAN: Hundreds? Thousands? Do you suppose that those people give a damn that you lied to get into Starfleet Medical? I doubt it. We deal with threats to the Federation that jeopardise its very survival. If you knew how many lives we've saved, I think you'd agree that the ends do justify the means. I'm not afraid of bending the rules every once in a while if the situation warrants it, and I don't think you are either.
BASHIR: You've got the wrong man, Sloan.
SLOAN: I don't think so. In time, you'll come to agree with me.
BASHIR: Don't hold your breath.
SLOAN: All I ask is that when you get back to Deep Space Nine, you consider what I've said.
BASHIR: What if I decide to expose you?
SLOAN: Let's just say I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
The very next scene, at the end of "Inquisition"...
ODO: I'll say one thing for this fellow Sloan, he's clever. He timed the Doctor's abduction to coincide with his trip to the medical conference. That way, he wasn't missed.
BASHIR: Yes, he's clever.
KIRA: We went over Julian's quarters but we couldn't find any residual transporter signatures. So either they got him off the station some other way, or they have transporter technology that we can't detect.
BASHIR: Captain, is there any word from Starfleet about Sloan or Section thirty one?
SISKO: There's no record of a Deputy Director Sloan anywhere in Starfleet. And as for Section thirty one, that's a little more complicated. Starfleet Command doesn't acknowledge its existence, but they don't deny it either. They simply said they'd look into it and get back to me.
BASHIR: When?
SISKO: They didn't say.
KIRA: That sounds like a cover up to me.
BASHIR: I can't believe the Federation condones this kind of activity.
ODO: Personally, I find it hard to believe they wouldn't. Every other great power has a unit like Section thirty one. The Romulans have the Tal Shiar, the Cardassians had the Obsidian Order.
BASHIR: But what does that say about us? When push comes to shove, are we willing to sacrifice our principles in order to survive?
SISKO: I wish I had an answer for you, Doctor.
KIRA: Maybe we should do some checking, try to track down this Sloan ourselves.
ODO: That won't be easy. If he's right and Section thirty one has existed since the birth of the Federation, they've learned to cover their tracks very well.
SISKO: We don't have to find them. They'll come to us. You said that Sloan tried to recruit you.
BASHIR: I turned him down.
SISKO: He doesn't strike me as a man who takes no for an answer. And next time he asks you to join his little group, you will say yes.
ODO: Well, congratulations, Doctor. Looks like you're going to get to play a spy after all. Only this time, for real.
ODO: I'll say one thing for this fellow Sloan, he's clever. He timed the Doctor's abduction to coincide with his trip to the medical conference. That way, he wasn't missed.
BASHIR: Yes, he's clever.
KIRA: We went over Julian's quarters but we couldn't find any residual transporter signatures. So either they got him off the station some other way, or they have transporter technology that we can't detect.
BASHIR: Captain, is there any word from Starfleet about Sloan or Section thirty one?
SISKO: There's no record of a Deputy Director Sloan anywhere in Starfleet. And as for Section thirty one, that's a little more complicated. Starfleet Command doesn't acknowledge its existence, but they don't deny it either. They simply said they'd look into it and get back to me.
BASHIR: When?
SISKO: They didn't say.
KIRA: That sounds like a cover up to me.
BASHIR: I can't believe the Federation condones this kind of activity.
ODO: Personally, I find it hard to believe they wouldn't. Every other great power has a unit like Section thirty one. The Romulans have the Tal Shiar, the Cardassians had the Obsidian Order.
BASHIR: But what does that say about us? When push comes to shove, are we willing to sacrifice our principles in order to survive?
SISKO: I wish I had an answer for you, Doctor.
KIRA: Maybe we should do some checking, try to track down this Sloan ourselves.
ODO: That won't be easy. If he's right and Section thirty one has existed since the birth of the Federation, they've learned to cover their tracks very well.
SISKO: We don't have to find them. They'll come to us. You said that Sloan tried to recruit you.
BASHIR: I turned him down.
SISKO: He doesn't strike me as a man who takes no for an answer. And next time he asks you to join his little group, you will say yes.
ODO: Well, congratulations, Doctor. Looks like you're going to get to play a spy after all. Only this time, for real.
It was, well written, sentimental, perfect.
This is zombie writing now.
More nostalgia
it’s a new body anyway and the androids in season 1 obviously could feel (although those were organic, this possibly isn’t), so it can have its own emotion chip or whatever makes emotions possible. And a fancy eye projector that data’s old body never had!
Was also a nice call back to Nemesis with the "I always imagined you a little taller" line
"Nostalgia"? I don't remember the episode of TNG where Data and Lore share the same body. This isn't zombie writing, it's doing something they haven't done before.
There's no way they were going to have a TNG Reunion without Brent Spiner or Data. They did it in just about the only way they could. He's back but he's not back. At the end of the day, they're machines with files that can be copied as long as the information exists somewhere. The Daystrom Institute isn't going to abandon the most advanced AI they know of, especially once the ban on developing AI is lifted.
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Not a bad comparison. Maybe she can be reached, but can she be redeemed? What always bothered me at the end of Return of the Jedi is Yoda and Obi Wan standing beside the youngling slayer. They would never forgive him.
That's right. It looks so plastic. In VOY it looked much more natural.
No. Data's second "death" was written horribly. They fixed the problem here and now we can have Brent playing data aged with his memories directly from the original data instead of the weird more convoluted reason we got in season one.
The molds may have been lost. Also, materials have changed in the past several decades.
Spock's changed from movie to movie all the way up to STID. It's nothing new and not as bad as it could have looked.
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