Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x07 - "Dominion"

[Tosk]

Something hardly talked about so far:
The crew just learned a reliable way of tracking and exposing the infiltrators!

What are the chances this will lead to a nice montage scene of all changelings Starfleet wide being ousted and exposed like Hydra agents in The Winter Soldier?

The tracking method Beverly came up with only works on Changelings that were part of Project Proteus. Ten Changelings.

Unless they make some excuse about 'contact with Proteus subjects infects other Changelings' or something. Which I guess could work, as Vadic can pass on her new ability, so maybe that downside is passed on too.

 

[jaime]

I think they outright said they can convert others… though it wasn’t clear if that meant other changelings, or anyone with a grudge. Most likely other changelings, as it appears to clearly involve consent whereas otherwise they could just gloop and zombie people.

Its looking more and more like Jack is not what anybody thought.

 

[RuleofAcuisition17]

Why did Altan Soong program Lore's personality as part of the new Data-like android? Lore is completely evil. Wouldn't Altan completely erase any remaining trace of Lore so he could never terrorize or hurt anyone else again? There is no "best" part of Lore. He's all bad.

Lore's problem was he couldn't cope with the emotions, Data could, and would get an emotional chip in the later seasons and it even became a point of contention between the two. Lore was more "corrputed" by emotion than outright evil.

I think it would be likely the Enterprise was very active in the war.

Doing a TNG movie on the dominion war would have devalued the DS9 story IMO, as would shoehorning the Ent in to an episode, let's face it if they had asked Jonathan Frakes would have been up for a guest appearance later on as acting captain or something like that.

If DS9 was filmed today I reckon without a doubt we would have some visuals of the enterprise I the final battle as we all love an Easter egg these days.

We did have a movie set During the War. It was called Insurrection.

The Enterprise was basically kept as an "in reserve" ship in the same way her earlier one would be during the Earth-Klingon war.

The whole plot revolved around planet and its healing properties which would've saved literal billions of lives during the harshest conflict The Federation had ever faced.

I think they outright said they can convert others… though it wasn’t clear if that meant other changelings, or anyone with a grudge. Most likely other changelings, as it appears to clearly involve consent whereas otherwise they could just gloop and zombie people.

Its looking more and more like Jack is not what anybody thought.

They do, Vadic, or the others link with them and it passes on the ability. Likely using the self same infection vector the S31 plague did. It's very obvious from the Ro Laren documentation this numbers into the hundreds.

 

[jackoverfull]

Matalas said we were supposed to see Vadic's point of view. Sorry I do not

For the first time I do. She’s angry, she’s in perpetual pain and she wants revenge. In a way she’s Star Trek’s darth Vader and I hope that, like him, she eventually can be reached.

Why did Altan Soong program Lore's personality as part of the new Data-like android? Lore is completely evil.

no, he isn’t. He’s deranged, for sure, and dangerous, but in a way he’s very human and very scared.

I'm not sure I fully understand Vadic situation. Is she "assigned" or locked into a state of goo or human and nothing else because of the S31 experiments ?

the experiments made her able to mimic solids to a much deeper level but she’s in perpetual pain as a consequence.

 

[jaime]

Lore is the perfect thing next to the changes, his whole thing is that biologicals didn’t accept him, an Android — which sent him nuts and turned him psycho basically. Especially after his father rejected him rather than helping him. It’s also the theme on S1, where data’s third daughter is more like her uncle. Fear, turning into swift offence as the best defence. Basically — the Dominion but with solids.

It’s possible Lore may regard Picard as family, once he learns he is a synth.

 

[jackoverfull]

We did have a movie set During the War. It was called Insurrection.

The Enterprise was basically kept as an "in reserve" ship in the same way her earlier one would be during the Earth-Klingon war.

I think it is set shortly after the war, the son’a supposedly provided white to the dominion (somehow).

 

[gvn2fly]

What is the deal with the other masked changelings? Why do they all stay in that shape with masks? Why do they use guns when they can use tentacles to grab Jack? They can also turn their "limbs" into spears.

 

[Mike Doyle]

What is the deal with the other masked changelings? Why do they all stay in that shape with masks? Why do they use guns when they can use tentacles to grab Jack? They can also turn their "limbs" into spears.

Because they’ve been experimented on to not be as malleable. It’s explained several times.

 

[Annorax849]

The first scene with Data/Lore reminded me of "Masks." Also, we've seen a lot more Changeling deaths on Picard than we ever did on DS9, right? I mean on-screen, not counting the virus,

 

[Timelord Victorious]

I can only think of 4… the imposter Odo killed on the Defiant, the Martok spy, the infant changeling and the one from the crashed ship the Jem’Hadar sacrificed themselves over at the end.

 

[SAndrews10]

Someone in another thread said this was the episode that ends trek for them. In that it’s all woke, that we should now feel bad for the dominion as they were correct the federation was indeed another group of solids hell bent on killing them all. The show is trying to make us hate our own people and our own heroes or something like that. So I guess the next time you rewatch the dominion war arc on DS9 we should be rooting for the founders next time?

 

[jackoverfull]

Someone in another thread said this was the episode that ends trek for them. In that it’s all woke, that we should now feel bad for the dominion as they were correct the federation was indeed another group of solids hell bent on killing them all. The show is trying to make us hate our own people and our own heroes or something like that. So I guess the next time you rewatch the dominion war arc on DS9 we should be rooting for the founders next time?

this someone sounds like someone who never understood a thing about Star Trek.

 

[Mike Doyle]

this someone sounds like someone who never understood a thing about Star Trek.

Far too woke. Trying to say that war might be bad for people on both sides.

 

[Quantum21]

A barely eeked out 7.

How much does this Data cheapen the top notch ending for Data in season 1?

Its not unwelcome to see him as a fan, but again, once that's over and you use actual brain cells instead of manufactured, stimulated nostalgia it doesn't settle well.

This is the first time Vadic feels like a character. Nowhere near Khan...as we were led to believe, but at least now there's something there.

Why are Starfleet crews so helpless? That doesn't sit well.

Kind of impatient for SNW or Discovery at this point. When is the fan film over?

 

[Tomalak]

We did have a movie set During the War. It was called Insurrection.

The Enterprise was basically kept as an "in reserve" ship in the same way her earlier one would be during the Earth-Klingon war.

The whole plot revolved around planet and its healing properties which would've saved literal billions of lives during the harshest conflict The Federation had ever faced.

I think it is set shortly after the war, the son’a supposedly provided white to the dominion (somehow).

Yeah. It's a little muddled because it was released during DS9's seventh season, but the context seems to place it afterwards, with the war in the past tense.

There's no stardate so it's still open for some debate. I used to think it was mid-season 7 due to the release date and Worf still being posted to DS9, but now I think it's more likely to be afterwards.

There is a line in Penumbra (I think) that the Son'a are Dominion allies, which makes sense because in the film they produce Ketracel White for the Jem'Hadar. So if Insurrection is after the war it makes more sense that the Federation would be trying to make peace with them, rather than dealing with an active Dominion ally.

My personal head canon is that it's set during the events of What You Leave Behind - between the Dominion fleet surrendering and the signing of the armistice on Deep Space Nine. I guess Winn and Dukat were in those caves for weeks.

 

[Citiprime]

Someone in another thread said this was the episode that ends trek for them. In that it’s all woke, that we should now feel bad for the dominion as they were correct the federation was indeed another group of solids hell bent on killing them all. The show is trying to make us hate our own people and our own heroes or something like that. So I guess the next time you rewatch the dominion war arc on DS9 we should be rooting for the founders next time?

And those people are dumb as a rock, and show they either never watched DS9 or were too stupid to get the themes of DS9.

The entire crux of DS9 as a series in using the Dominion War was questioning how “good” the Federation actually is. The situations and stories put the institutions and characters that exist in a quasi-Utopian paradise and shows how either the Roddenberry idealism does or does not hold under considerable moral predicaments.

The fact the show goes there, and shows that there’s ambiguity and times where the cracks shows, gives it a realism. But overall, I think DS9 reaffirms Roddenberry’s values by showing that even though the characters and Starfleet make mistakes, they still want to live up to that vision of humanity that’s at the center of Star Trek.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Since I'm that person's target, here are my hopefully last comments about this.





Fact: Many episodes have been released around 11:05, 11:07, 11:10, some around 11:30, and some as late as 11:50, but the vast majority of CBSAA/P+ streaming episodes were released between 11:00 and midnight Pacific Time going all the way back to when Disco was moved from Sunday afternoon to Wednesday night. Therefore, following your post here, we are 100% right, because it was the normal time, and certainly not earlier than any ever. You not knowing this despite it happening weekly for years is entirely your problem.



Fact: I have posted pictures of everything I found noteworthy as soon as the episodes are out for years, including those last 6 episodes. The time when you open a thread is entirely your choice. If you opened all the previous threads for the past 80+ episodes later, and now opened this one 'too early', no one else is to blame.


...writes the poster who also writes:

@Flux Capacitor finally dropped the issue. I suggest that you do so as well.

 

[Tomalak]

The Founders always had a point, to some extent. The Federation probed their territory despite being very clearly warned off, gave the Romulans the location of the Founder homeworld, which they subsequently attempted to obliterate with help from the Cardassians.

We know they were developing the virus pretty much immediately, introduced it before the war even began and then withheld the cure.

 

[Lord Garth]

Yeah. It's a little muddled because it was released during DS9's seventh season, but the context seems to place it afterwards, with the war in the past tense.

There's no stardate so it's still open for some debate. I used to think it was mid-season 7 due to the release date and Worf still being posted to DS9, but now I think it's more likely to be afterwards.

There is a line in Penumbra (I think) that the Son'a are Dominion allies, which makes sense because in the film they produce Ketracel White for the Jem'Hadar. So if Insurrection is after the war it makes more sense that the Federation would be trying to make peace with them, rather than dealing with an active Dominion ally.

My personal head canon is that it's set during the events of What You Leave Behind - between the Dominion fleet surrendering and the signing of the armistice on Deep Space Nine. I guess Winn and Dukat were in those caves for weeks.

I think the events from WYLB didn't unfold in Real Time. Dukat and Winn would've starved to death. I think those scenes take place after the battle at Cardassia Prime and were only intermixed with the wartime scenes for the sake of story flow. In other words: I think the parallel storylines are non-linear with each other.

I break it down as:
Insurrection
Worf missing
"Penumbra" through "Dogs of War"
WYLB Dukat/Winn before they go to the Fire Caves
WYLB Dominion War Scenes
WYLB Aftermath Scenes, Dukat/Winn in the Fire Caves
Rest of WYLB

 

[Timelord Victorious]

The timeline is certainly interesting.
If those 10 changelings were the original test subjects for the virus (as opposed to tissue samples from Odo himself), that would mean that they were captured in or before season 4 of DS9.
Odo was infected during his stay on Earth and passed it on when being judged by the Great Link.

Mai the question is, when and how was S31 able to get hold of 10 changelings more or less at once when they didn’t even officially know they were in the process of infiltrating Earth?

There were only a total of 4 changelings on Earth back then.
Capturing 10 is impressive.