So, I think this episode was a slight step down from last week's. I might still give this one an 8. But based on all the strong feelings I, and others here, have about the episode, enough to drive all this discussion, I think this says something about the improved quality of season 3 so far.
I liked a lot of it, but it feels a little like we are already spinning our wheels a little just in episode 2. Where I felt a lot of interesting things were set up last week, this week feels like those things weren't really developed very much, or maybe just weren't satisfying to me.
Most of us suspected Worf was the handler, so not a big surprise.
Jack seemed like he would be Picard's son, so not a big surprise (unless he's not!)
Vadic seemed like she would be a mustache-twirling villain, and she is (but a happy one), so not a big surprise. [Hope there is more to her later.]
Raffi's story didn't really go anywhere as her only lead is dead and she learned nothing else.
We spend the whole episode just staring out at Vadic's ship, listening to monologues, and waiting for a very extended hour to be up. There wasn't really any "ticking clock" feeling to make the timecrunch feel important. Picard, et al weren't really trying to "solve" the situation. It just turns on a last second invalid order from the retired Admiral and off we go.
So, I guess I am just looking forward to more progress next week. Maybe these first two episodes could have been condensed into one somehow, but I wouldn't want to lose the character work for Riker, Picard, Beverly (though she was sidelined for most of ep 2), Seven, and Jack. So, maybe just having more for our characters to do would have improved things. Only Picard does anything and that is only really ask jack some questions without serious followups.
Thought, I must say Stewart really felt more like Picard in this episode than in any previous episode or season. I just wish his scene where he tells Shaw to "stand up" could have been better. After that moment, Picard doesn't really get anything else to say or do, and kind of sheepishly exits the scene when Shaw's "confrontation" with Vadic ends badly. It was mostly just another monologue from Vadic, so another disappointment there.
And the most unnecessarily unlikely thing in this episode? That fact that Raffi's ex-husband lives on the same planet she is deployed to. Why did they need this? She could have called him via subspace and had 100% the exact same conversation with the exact same outcome without cranking small universe syndrome up to 1000%.
...It doesn't matter what they write at this point because I really doubt anything they reveal will satisfactorily resolve these issues for me. It's hard because I feel Prodigy and Strange New Worlds are doing a lot right, but Picard's just been one disastrous story after another after Season 1 ended (which while not great, was a solid story and still a plausible continuation of Picard's character)...
As other posters have pointed out, there are a lot of possible, character-driven reasons this all could have happened that would result in our characters not being undermined; i am hoping one of them is true.
While I don't think PIC has succeeded in hardly any of their plot lines (though individual scenes and episodes have been good), I do think this season feels more Trek-like to me so I hope it sticks the landing.
...You don't need to say 200 torpedoes this and 300 missiles that to convey the ship is powerful. It's over the top...
My problem, other than that the description went on way way too long (where is an "Enough, Data!" moment from TNG S1 when you need it?), was that they mentioned the Shrike had both torpedoes and "antimatter missiles"?...Don't you mean torpedoes? Torpedoes are just another word for missiles and they contain antimatter as a warhead (unless they are quantum torpodoes). Who wrote that dialog?
...So, last episode Shaw refused Picard's orders because he was retired but now he accepts Picard's superiority? Or did he simply have a change of heart because Jack is his son?...
This was the biggest issue I had with the episode. Yeah, hopefully the writers have some actual reason for Shaw to change his mind and suddenly be all gung-ho to save Jack while still risking the lives of all his crew! But my problem is more with the presentation of the moment in the show. Despite all the dramatic weight they put into the dinner scene in episode 1, there is zero weight given to this moment in episode 2. It's like there was no acknowledgement in the writing of this episode that that scene existed in the other. Shaw just gives up with no fanfare. There isn't even the typical Trek justification of Picard saying "per Starfleet regulation X.X, I reinstate myself to active status, and blah blah blah".
There are similar shortcuts in other moments of this episode like when Seven is trying to convince Shaw to save Riker and Picard or when Picard is arguing with Shaw. It feels like (to me) they needed one more pass on the scripts to get to a good solid argument/justification/structure to some of these moments that would have made them feel real but now feel a little rushed, convenient, or just wrong.
Shaw did seem to be a bit genre savvy in that he kept giving Picard an opportunity to pull a rabbit out of his hat before the deadline rather than sending Jack over the second he found out he actually was a wanted man. Apparently, he may not like cowboys, but he recognizes their utility when you've got an out-of-control cattle herd...
I wish this were the case. I didn't get that impression from Shaw when i first watched it. I will look for this upon a rewatch.
Section 31 should be the laughingstock of the galaxy for anyone who's heard of them after it was revealed the head of Starfleet Intelligence was a Romulan spy...
I just wanted to point out that we don't really know the status of S31 post-DS9. They could have actually been disbanded or fell apart after the death of Slone. Plus since the PIC S1 Romulan storyline didn't make a lick of sense in the first place, I just ignore all of it in terms of considering the implications for Star Trek. [The super secret embedded Romulan head of Starfleet Security just bails on her undercover status for no reason? Her adjutant is also an undercover Romulan who also bails on her embedded mission for no reason? After this whole plot is revealed, confirming Raffi's "wild conspiracy theories", Raffi's husband still thinks she is a conspiracy-addicted druggy?]
...Seven's appeal to Shaw should not have been a shallow threat/point, but something better. "Captain, I respect your decision to protect the lives of the crew, but I know these men & they would not be out here doing this if lives were not at stake. I know that if the roles were reversed, they would not hesitate to help us. Whatever you think of them, these men have a lot of experience in situations like this, as do I. Even though we are outgunned, the crew is well trained and able, as is the Captain. It is a risk, and your call, but we can do the right thing here and get out of this. We don't have to defeat them, just get clear and back to Federation space. "...
I agree on this 100%, but they didn't have enough time to allow for a longer argument, they used all that screentime to list all the armaments of the Shrike.
I think the situations are different He refused Picard's orders to pivot from his orders from Starfleet and go to another location for no reason. In this case, they are in a decision where they are in immediate danger and involves sending someone to be murdered. I'm sure he also knows there are no guarantees Vadic won't destroy them anyway even if they turn in Crusher. He's deferring to Picard's experience here.
Shaw refuses to divert the ship. Then he refuses to go along with Picard wanting to protect Jack. Then he decides to project Jack. I don't see how anything has changed from when he refuses to protect Jack to when he does. In both cases Shaw's crew is at risk to save one criminal. At first that criminal is only related to Crusher and Shaw doesn't care. When Picard pulls (his non-existent, according to episode 1) rank, Shaw just says "why are you doing this?". Then Picard reveals Jack is his son. Then Shaw seems to react as though "oh, if this is a father/son thing, then I guess it makes sense" and jumps to support Picard's wishes, but saying the results will be on Picard's head. Since the only changes in the circumstances are that Jack is Picard's son and Picard claimed non-existent Admiral authority - I hope Shaw is bending because of the former (based on some as-yet-to-be-revealed character issue) and not the later (which totally contradicts what happened at dinner in episode 1).
...That would have been a good pitch to Shaw from Riker/Picard/or Seven.
I agree. But I don't think this show has the time for well-reasoned arguments (though, it has shown more willingness to try than compared with seasons 1 or 2, or with DIS).
Section 31 has been a sigh-inducing bore since DSC took the concept and well, took it and did things with it. The less it shows up from this point forward the better.
I'm cool with it existing. DS9 and ENT used the concept just fine and I'm not utopian and rainbow hugs enough to think societies like 22nd century Earth and later the Federation wouldn't have an agency like that. But the current incarnation of the concept just isn't entertaining.
I agree that S31 has been silly outside of DS9 and ENT (and LDS's depiction is still TBD).
I don't think that's the case at all.
It's finding out why Picard is doing what he's doing, and discovering that he has a son, suddenly.
There could be something in Shaw's background that sympathizes with that aspect.
Ergo the sudden change of heart.
I agree. I hope this is the reason ultimately. But the way it is performed in the episode is more like that Picard actually has command authority, but that after the reveal of his relationship Shaw is more willing to be an active participant than before.
My opinion on the big reveal?
It’s a cover. It’s actually a clone of Jack Crusher, and Picard knows this, and pretends it’s his son because he wants to protect his “old Friend” after not being able to on the Stargazer. He felt he owed it to both Jack and Beverly. And Riker recognizes Jack as Jack, and that’s why he asking Picard about the obvious.
Well that’s my hope anyway. But as long as whatever the truth is is entertaining, I don’t care.
That would be better, in my opinion, than the tired trope of long lost, unrevealed son. Plus TNG already approached this (and subverted it) in S7(?). It would be a shame to fall back on this laziness after all that.
Of course. For my "headcanon" I like to think he lost a bet. But the obvious implication in Nemesis is that Picard was bald when young, so that's why Shinzon is bald when young.
But "Tapestry" conflicts with that Nemesis scene. In the flashbacks, Picard has hair. [Also, kid Picard in "Rascals" also has hair, but he is younger than a just commissioned ensign, so probably doesn't really count.]
I am a bit confused by the behavior of her relatives. I always assumed that Raffi first became addicted because no one believed her that Romulans were responsible for the Synth Uprising and these forces caused her to lose her security clearance and her family to subsequently abandon her . Actually, her son should apologize to her. She was right and was also rehabilitated after the events of season one.
Exactly. Unless, Starfleet covered up the truth (Wolf 359 was an inside job!) and no one knows the most significant events of the last 30 years were due to super secret Romulan spec ops teams and anti-synth death squads. But then again, Raffi goes around openly stating her full intel credentials into her communicator on a public street and arguing loudly with her husband telling him she works for Starfleet intelligence, so I don't think they are running a tight ship.
- As for Shaw, I don't care for the inconsistent writing of his character. He's perfectly happy to let Riker and senior Picard die, until 7 of 9 says: "...or be known for letting two Starfleet Legends die..."); and he's also willing (and still IMO in character when he is willing to trade Jack Crusher to save the 500 in his crew; BUT suddenly once it's reveled Jack is Admiral Picard's son - SUDDENLY he seems to be okay with sacrificing his ship and crew?
...
Yes. Exactly. Though I think his willingness to work with Picard is only tempered by the idea that Jack is Picard's son. He seems to initially react as though Picard actually has command authority.
- I was never a ST: VOY fan (still think it's the worst Trek series), gave up watching it regularly after S1 but I've since seen some of their later seasons episodes with 7 of 9 and the ST:VOY finale Endgame. But yeah, I've really liked the 7 of 9 character version they have had in PICARD since S1 and Jerry Ryan comes across as a much better more nuanced actress then she ever did in ST: VOY (IMO). Continuing to enjoy her character.
Jeri Ryan was always good and Seven one of the best characters on VOY. It was clear that the writers liked writing for Seven and actually did a good job, whereas they couldn't care less about 50% of the other regular characters.
Further minor non-canon complaints:
Overuse of phrases like "picard is so great, riker is great, they are so decorated, they are legends" etc. cringeworthy fan service...
I don't think the problem is with "fan service". It's with too much telling and not showing. DIS has this problem 10-fold and for a slightly different reason than PIC. DIS doesn't have the interest or the time (given the limited number of episodes and the serialized stories) to do the character building moments and scenes to "show" the audience how great a character like Michael is, so instead they shortcut it by having someone openly state the same. PIC doesn't have to take that shortcut because it has the 9 seasons, 4 movies, and 40+ years of in universe time that justifies how much these guys are heroes, but for some reason the dialog is just written a little too directly. [Robot Devil: "You can't just have your characters state how they feel! That makes me feel angry!]
