Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x05 - "Fly Me to the Moon"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
What they should do in the final episode when it looks like the timeline ha been restored. Picard it seems is finally ready to accept love and he moves in to kiss Laris but before they do that they feel the presence of someone else in the room. They both look up and see Tuvix standing in front of them naked but Alive! Before Picard can say something Tuvix says. "I need your help mom and dad." Credits then start to roll and we are left wondering what the heck could that all mean!
It stretches suspension of disbelief just a little bit to have two 21st Century characters who look identical to 24th Century characters, but Isa Briones is back so I'll allow it.
I have to admit, seeing well-known Trek actors looking like regular people in the (almost) present is kinda breaking the illusion for me. I mean, I know they’re actors, have even seen some of them in person, but it hits different when they’re on screen like that.
*shrugs* I can't say it bothers me any. Except insofar as Allison Pill looked gorgeous in that dress.
Soji/Kora kinda makes sense because her face could just be something that Noonian programmed into Data.
All the Soongs looking identical is kinda weird. I’m guessing Adam screwed around with the Soong DNA so they would always look like him no matter who they mated with.
All the Soongs looking identical is kinda weird. I’m guessing Adam screwed around with the Soong DNA so they would always look like him no matter who they mated with.
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Amaris
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Same. I have a huge crush on Alison.
And Michelle.
And Santiago.
And Jeri.
And Orla.
And, uh, Evan.
Oh, and Annie! Can't forget Annie.
Also, Isa.
I think I mentioned Alison.
I'm pretty sure that's... no, no, also Patrick.
And definitely Kirk Thatcher. < loosens choker just a bit >
Seriously, that is a damn fine cast.
Yeah, I guess it makes sense if Isa Briones's face is just a recurring facial pattern in the Soong family history that Alton Soong might have chosen to use it as a template when he created Soji & Dahj and Jana & Sutra.
I mean, facial patterns literally can recur within families. My late mother looked damn near identical to surviving photos we have of her great-great grandmother from the early 1900s. There's a little bit of suspension of disbelief here, but it's not totally out of the realm of reality for there to be a lot of male Soongs who look like Brent Spiner (and, presumably, a lot of female Soongs who look like Isa Briones).
The name is another 12 Monkeys reference. In the show, Spearhead was a project set up to provide a secure location for surviving government and military leadership, as well as a place for scientists to work on developing a cure for the plague.
Noonian left an image of his grand mother in Data's head for Data to use when making his daughter, which he didn't.
Even if Adam is not Noonian, Adrik and Alton, or Flint, he could have genemodded himself Immortality, or cloned himself over and over again, with or without transferring consciousness. Of course if there is a transfer of consciousness, then Adam, when he was calling himself Noonian, put his daughters face into Data's deepest recesses.
I mean, sure. Or they could all be different characters who happen to look alike because they're played by Brent Spiner.
That was the assumption I made. See also: Werner mentions that Soong was in violation of the "Shenzen Conventions", which I took to be the Accord that ended the Eugenics Wars and established the ban on genetic engineering.
Introducing those as background elements that are just accepted by the characters and not explained overtly to the audience would be a good way of staying in continuity with TOS establishing that the Eugenics Wars happened in the 1990s without needing to actively depict the world of 2024 as being as fundamentally different from our real world as that history would imply.
My take after reading some of the posts on here, the lack of a mother for Kore implies genetic engineering and got me wondering. Is Kore the female equivalent of the male Soong? This would fit with the total narcistic persona of Adam Soong and it is not outside the realms of possibility that he cloned his descendants. The backstory they keep adding creates a lot of different possibilities.
Moving on I really think the Agnes thing is a total red herring, the Borg Queen we see has a mask and shield from all things around her, could this be Kore as the only thing that could save her if medical intervention fails is Borg nanoprobes to arrest her condition? Unsure how she ends up in the future but I am calling it now that she ends up being the Borg Queen as the only way to get her out of Agnes's head and save Kore as a deal everyone can live with.
The other thing that niggles me, I know Q exists in a different time plane to us, but watching episodes 1 - 5, why are we assuming that the Q we see in episode 5 is a later version of the Q we see in episode 2. For all we know events played out in episode 5 and ruined the future and then Q came into present 2401 and taunted Picard which is why he slapped him as he has minimal powers left and already knows how things will play out in 2024 as he has lived through them.
I am still uncertain what the point of this was though, was Q changing the timeline just to be a dick, or was there a very valid purpose for it, such as Kore becoming the Borg Queen and travelling through time and if this does not happen, then Picard and co do not travel back in time to enable her to become the Queen in the same paradox as First Contact. Is she a newer, softer Queen who actually wants some form of accord and this is the big lesson for Picard?
Moving on I really think the Agnes thing is a total red herring, the Borg Queen we see has a mask and shield from all things around her, could this be Kore as the only thing that could save her if medical intervention fails is Borg nanoprobes to arrest her condition? Unsure how she ends up in the future but I am calling it now that she ends up being the Borg Queen as the only way to get her out of Agnes's head and save Kore as a deal everyone can live with.
The other thing that niggles me, I know Q exists in a different time plane to us, but watching episodes 1 - 5, why are we assuming that the Q we see in episode 5 is a later version of the Q we see in episode 2. For all we know events played out in episode 5 and ruined the future and then Q came into present 2401 and taunted Picard which is why he slapped him as he has minimal powers left and already knows how things will play out in 2024 as he has lived through them.
I am still uncertain what the point of this was though, was Q changing the timeline just to be a dick, or was there a very valid purpose for it, such as Kore becoming the Borg Queen and travelling through time and if this does not happen, then Picard and co do not travel back in time to enable her to become the Queen in the same paradox as First Contact. Is she a newer, softer Queen who actually wants some form of accord and this is the big lesson for Picard?
The guest stars this season have been beautiful. Sol Rodriguez and Penelope Mitchell.
That implies his mother; which, please, God, no.
I've seen a few people here complaining that the ICE storyline wasn't connected to the main plot, but I think those complaints are missing the point. First of all, it was primarily a character storyline, designed to help us get to know Rios a bit better and to spend some time exploring Seven and Raffi's relationship. Not everything has to always be about the plot. Second of all, it introduced the character of Theresa, who may well come back into play again later. (Rios left his comm badge at the clinic, too. Is that significant, or will it be a loose thread left dangling?). And thirdly, that storyline did support the main plot in that it separated Seven, Raffi and Rios - the three most physically competent and able characters - from Picard and Agnes, so that Picard went in search of the Watcher alone, which left Agnes alone with the Borg Queen. The plot needed to keep those three away from the others in order to get where it needed to go, so they were spun off into a little side story of their own, in which we got to spend a bit more time getting to know them and their relationships, and that was fine.
The main problem with the ICE storyline in this episode was that it ended so abruptly and felt a bit anticlimactic. After all the build up of Raffi and Seven being afraid for Rios, neither one actually spoke to him at all after his rescue - their scenes outside the bus were shot separately. Covid bubbles strike again. If the three of them had had a scene together to express relief and ask what the hell happened, exchange a bit of banter, the storyline might have felt a bit more rounded and complete - in much the same way that we really needed at least one scene between Raffi and Elnor in 2.01 to show us their new bond, instead of just telling us about it, so that Raffi's grief would feel more meaningful now (a bit like how they gave Rios and Seven a couple of comm conversations in eps 1 and 2 in which they weren't even in the same room yet completely established that, having met and formed a rapport in S1, they have since become good friends - and having mentioned that, I am now fascinated by the fact that Seven has been living on La Sirena with the merged Rios holos and how that plays into her relationship with the real Rios...). This season is better at the character work, in general, than season one was, but it still doesn't always join the dots.
The main problem with the ICE storyline in this episode was that it ended so abruptly and felt a bit anticlimactic. After all the build up of Raffi and Seven being afraid for Rios, neither one actually spoke to him at all after his rescue - their scenes outside the bus were shot separately. Covid bubbles strike again. If the three of them had had a scene together to express relief and ask what the hell happened, exchange a bit of banter, the storyline might have felt a bit more rounded and complete - in much the same way that we really needed at least one scene between Raffi and Elnor in 2.01 to show us their new bond, instead of just telling us about it, so that Raffi's grief would feel more meaningful now (a bit like how they gave Rios and Seven a couple of comm conversations in eps 1 and 2 in which they weren't even in the same room yet completely established that, having met and formed a rapport in S1, they have since become good friends - and having mentioned that, I am now fascinated by the fact that Seven has been living on La Sirena with the merged Rios holos and how that plays into her relationship with the real Rios...). This season is better at the character work, in general, than season one was, but it still doesn't always join the dots.
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I don't think so. If you notice, the Borg Queen's voice changed to a more female voice when she says, "Picard, look up", which suggests to me maybe he was lost in thought about his mother and mistook what the Borg Queen said. I dunno. He didn't look up though.