Star Trek: Phase II (the original)

[Therin of Andor]

I think McCoy, Scotty, Uhura, Sulu and Chekov (?) were all on board.

Yes. Walter Koenig was told that he would be wearing red, and heading Security. The red Starfleet Security shirts made for "Phase II" were repurposed for Orkans in "Mork & Mindy".

Of course, when a fully-recast Trek movie, with Really Big Names as Kirk and Spock (ie. the calibre of Paul Newman and Robert Redford), was being considered, Gene Roddenberry ran into Walter on the Paramount lot one day, and offered him the chance to play... Chekov's father. (This anecdote is in "Chekov's Enterprise", IIRC.)

I just pulled my copy of Star Trek Magazine from Dec. 2001, the TMP issue. It features an interview with Collins about the movie.

No Will Decker had been cast before "Phase II" turned into TMP.

"The Making of Star Trek: The Motion Picture" listed the short list of candidates for Decker. One of them was a young Andrew Robinson (the future Garak) and another was Tim Thomerson (the future Jay Allen, Barry's older brother, in the pilot of 1990's "The Flash").

 

[Pauln6]

Plus, it was a starring role, not a supporting part destined to be overshadowed by the original Star Trek cast week-to-week.

Apparently Decker and Ilia were among the most popular elements of the movie for general audiences although that's possibly because Kirk acts like a dick, Spock is blank for much of the story, and there needed to be a bit more humorous interplay involving McCoy - even some one-liners including the supporting cast might have helped such as that employed by Karl Urban's McCoy. It isn't possible to say if that same dynamic would have been replicated in Phase II but no doubt, like TOS, the writers would have bigged up the most popular characters going forward. Xon wouldn't have been Data so would he have been as popular as Spock-lite? If they were struggling to cast Decker and Collins wasn't on the radar, which of his contemporaries might have got the job instead? Would they have been able to win over audiences in the same way? Would they have considered a mixed race actor if they continued to struggle with casting?

I'm struggling to think of any high profile dashing male leads from that era, as the UK had more limited exposure to US TV shows. Can anybody think of potential leads that were on TV during this era?

Edit: Crossed with Ian above. I can see Tim Thomerson as being similar to Collins portrayal actually.

 

[Lance]

The corridors were 8' wide, just like TOS.

The phase II corridors? In the photos they look the same width, yes, but maybe with a lower ceiling? I recall thinking they look astonishly like the sets from TOS but just a little more compact somehow. But that could just be my interpretation

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I'm struggling to think of any high profile dashing male leads from that era, as the UK had more limited exposure to US TV shows. Can anybody think of potential leads that were on TV during this era?

Patrick Duffy (Man from Atlantis, Dallas) would have been awesome on Star Trek, as a Vulcan or a human.

 

[Henoch]

I'm struggling to think of any high profile dashing male leads from that era, as the UK had more limited exposure to US TV shows. Can anybody think of potential leads that were on TV during this era?

Instead of another white guy, it would have been interesting to add an African-American actor as the new major lead. For example, I think Lloyd Hayes was between jobs, and he even had TOS pedigree as Lt. Alden in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" plus has history in several novels. Commander Alden would be awesome as the new first office.

 

[Pauln6]

Instead of another white guy, it would have been interesting to add an African-American actor as the new major lead. For example, I think Lloyd Hayes was between jobs, and he even had TOS pedigree as Lt. Alden in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" plus has history in several novels. Commander Alden would be awesome as the new first office.

Decker had to be at least half white unless they redrafted his bio but I would have been down with that. They might have considered it after Herb Jefferson Jr being cast as Starbuck's slightly more sensible sidekick in BSG but the timing might be just out.

 

[Henoch]

Decker had to be at least half white unless they redrafted his bio but I would have been down with that. They might have considered it after Herb Jefferson Jr being cast as Starbuck's slightly more sensible sidekick in BSG but the timing might be just out.

Actually, it would have great to have Decker as the off-spring of an interracial marriage of Matt Decker and an African-American woman. One episode could have a mother visit akin to Spock's parents visit. A mid-1970's actor available for the role escapes me. Chance to make a new star from an unknown?

 

[Mysterion]

When we invent Rick & Morty's multiverse TV, one of the first shows I'm tracking down is Star Trek II.

I'm holding out for the alternate universe where the movies were rebooted with Matt Damon as Kirk, Gary Sinese as McCoy, and Billy Connolly as Scotty. Not sure who'd portray Spock in that version... maybe Live Schreiber.

 

[Mytran]

The phase II corridors? In the photos they look the same width, yes, but maybe with a lower ceiling? I recall thinking they look astonishly like the sets from TOS but just a little more compact somehow. But that could just be my interpretation

To my eye they're near identical to the ones in TOS, the only difference is that the wall panels are all the same width (approx 8 feet), whereas the original featured a greater variety

 

[Maurice]

Decker's "bio" could be changed in 5 seconds by changing his last name. Bang, done. Calling him "Decker" at all was fan service (and, frankly, had they ever said he was Commodore Decker's son, I bet Norman Spinrad would have gone to the WGAw and said, "Wait a sec, I created Commodore Decker" and stuck his hand out).

 

[Henoch]

Decker's "bio" could be changed in 5 seconds by changing his last name. Bang, done. Calling him "Decker" at all was fan service (and, frankly, had they ever said he was Commodore Decker's son, I bet Norman Spinrad would have gone to the WGAw and said, "Wait a sec, I created Commodore Decker" and stuck his hand out).

According to Wiki, "Spinrad wrote the script for an episode of the original Star Trek television series, titled "The Doomsday Machine" (1967). He also wrote an unproduced Star Trek script for Star Trek: Phase II." Didn't know that; I wonder if it is available for review. Does the writer give up all rights to the production company for anything in those scripts as part of his contract fee? Does the writer get anything from syndication? Just wanting to know if anyone knows the answers.

 

[Maurice]

If you create new characters for a given episode you do not lose all the rights to them. In fact, if the show re-uses said characters without you, you get paid. This is to protect writers from having their creations re-used without compensation. It's why any time the Guardian of Forever gets used or made into an ornament they have to cough up money to Ellison/his estate. It's also why you get Tom Paris instead of Nick Locarno.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

It's also why you get Tom Paris instead of Nick Locarno.

It used to bug me that VOY didn't use his original name; it took me a long time to figure that was the reason.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

If you create new characters for a given episode you do not lose all the rights to them. In fact, if the show re-uses said characters without you, you get paid. This is to protect writers from having their creations re-used without compensation. It's why any time the Guardian of Forever gets used or made into an ornament they have to cough up money to Ellison/his estate. It's also why you get Tom Paris instead of Nick Locarno.

Or T'Pol instead of T'Pau in ENT.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Or T'Pol instead of T'Pau in ENT.

I'm glad they didn't call her T'Pau. It would box in the character. She's never in real peril if we know she becomes an old lady. That's why Titanic was a box office flop.

 

[Jedi Marso]

What good are those clauses where the studio takes possession of all the 'intellectual property', so to speak? I thought once you submitted a manuscript and it was accepted, all the characters and such belonged to the studio. Obviously, that doesn't seem to be the case. Anyone?

 

[Maurice]

What good are those clauses where the studio takes possession of all the 'intellectual property', so to speak? I thought once you submitted a manuscript and it was accepted, all the characters and such belonged to the studio. Obviously, that doesn't seem to be the case. Anyone?

There's a difference between work-for-hire as in a staff writer like Coon, whose script ideas and characters created for the show become the property of the studio and freelancers submitting scripts, who have what are called "separated rights". It's a complicated relationship. For instance, Norman Spinrad sold his script "He Walks Among Us" to Star Trek in the 60s and it was never produced, but when he tried to self-publish it a few years ago he was stopped by IP owners because it's Star Trek, but if CBS were to produce anything based on that script even today they'd still have to pay him. This all exists because of UNIONS. The WGA is a very powerful force in Hollywood because no scripts no movies, so they negotiate contracts with the studios to protect the writers to make sure they are properly compensated for their work and derivatives of their work.

 

[johnnybear]

Stuart Sutcliffe and Pete Best are both most known for leaving the Beatles before they got famous.

Done.

I think I have heard of them somewhere before, yes, but they ain't Trek are they, Jonny?
JB

 

[BillJ]

That's why Titanic was a box office flop.

We knew the ship sank, we didn't know the fate of the characters, since they were actually made up for the movie.

The lead characters Jack and Rose (portrayed by Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Winslet) are completely fictional characters and are not based on any two people who were aboard RMS Titanic when the ship sank.

https://rmstitanichotel.co.uk/titan...the-historical-accuracy-of-the-movie-titanic/

 

[Lance]

There's a difference between work-for-hire as in a staff writer like Coon, whose script ideas and characters created for the show become the property of the studio and freelancers submitting scripts, who have what are called "separation rights". It's a complicated relationship. For instance, Norman Spinrad sold his script "He Walks Among Us" to Star Trek in the 60s and it was never produced, but when he tried to self-publish it a few years ago he was stopped by IP owners because it's Star Trek, but if CBS were to produce anything based on that script even today they'd still have to pay him. This all exists because of UNIONS. The WGA is a very powerful force in Hollywood because no scripts no movies, so they negotiate contracts with the studios to protect the writers to make sure they are properly compensated for their work and derivatives of their work.

Rights are a funny thing sometimes. There are loopholes where things fall through the cracks. On Doctor Who, the writer of the original Daleks scripts back in 1963 actually provided very little by way of description of the Daleks in his script. He simply specified that they not look human or like a human was inside them, and that they "glide" rather than have indentifiable methods of transport. That was pretty much all his script said. The whole iconic look and design was created almost entirely by a BBC staff production designer, but when the Daleks took off with the public imagination, the staff designer who basically interpreted those basic descriptions into the thing we call a Dalek today received nothing. To this day, royalties are paid to the writer for his conceptual idea, while the BBC corporation themselves own the visual 'look', all because the designer was on staff and therefore had no IP rights on the thing he created.