Star Trek: Online
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Speaking as someone who has played the internal beta (blah blah NDA whatever) this couldn't possibly be father from the truth, and anyone who seriously believes STO is just Champions reskinned probably digs large sections of their brain out of their skull with a spatula while collecting their drool in a Kool-aid man shaped jug as a pastime.
So you're telling me that you don't blow up a borg cube with a miranda class in the tutorial, and that things don't take dozens of phaser shots to kill?
Well if they keep to their timetable the beta will be opened to everybody in 3 week time then we shall all see.....i personally I'm keeping my expectations down low so as not to be Star Trek Legacy type disappointed, i am expection combat to be similar to Star trek Starfleet command 3 which when it worked online with about 10 people attacking a AI starbase or ships was really quite enjoyable, i have no idea how land based combat will work.
Thespeckledkiwi
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Again, they did this totally wrong and I think they kind of rushed it because of SW: OR
I don't know about the Borg cube (there could be an in-game reason for that, like a simulation -- let's also remember that according to the Devs, a Borg Cube is enough for a massive player event), but considering that it took a lot of phaser blasts to take down Khan's (exposed) Miranda over two battles, I'd say the dozens-of-phaser-blasts is a fairly silly excuse, esp. given the nature of MMOs.
To wit, in World of Warcraft, you can take dozens of stabbing injuries and still live. In City of Heroes, you can get bludgeoned by dozens of blows and still live. In the Matrix Online, you can be shot by dozens of bullets and still live. What's the big deal here?
I think we should give STO a chance. Right now it's our only shot at a decent Star Trek video game on the nearby horizon. And they can always make improvements post-launch.
Oh yeah, let's forgive them for not releasing a good game if it doesn't turn out so well, because they can always fix it afterwards.
It doesn't matter if you unshit something shitty.
Look at SWG - they managed to make it kinda cool again after the infamous gameplay adjustments, but noone gives a rats ass because they still remember the shittyness.
It doesn't matter if you unshit something shitty.
Look at SWG - they managed to make it kinda cool again after the infamous gameplay adjustments, but noone gives a rats ass because they still remember the shittyness.
If it's got a solid base at launch with room for improvements and expansion at launch, isn't that what makes for a good MMO and gives it a long shelf life?
If they put everything into it right away at the beginning and there's nothing left to put into it after it's been released, there's only so much you can do with it once the developers are done. Hence why there's no developer support for any of the old Trek games out there anymore and why half this forum is devoted to getting old games to work with newer versions of windows.
I'm tired of you negative trekkies. From dissing the new movie that saved the franchise from the dumpster to now nitpicking every single flaw of this game before we've even had a chance to test drive it in open beta, I'm almost thinking of converting to Star Wars where they seem to have an easier time adjusting to new things added to their franchise.
If they put everything into it right away at the beginning and there's nothing left to put into it after it's been released, there's only so much you can do with it once the developers are done. Hence why there's no developer support for any of the old Trek games out there anymore and why half this forum is devoted to getting old games to work with newer versions of windows.
I'm tired of you negative trekkies. From dissing the new movie that saved the franchise from the dumpster to now nitpicking every single flaw of this game before we've even had a chance to test drive it in open beta, I'm almost thinking of converting to Star Wars where they seem to have an easier time adjusting to new things added to their franchise.
I wasn't referring to ship to ship battles, where lots of shots make sense.
I was referring to shooting Klingons on a planetary surface, which has never taken dozens of shots and 5 or 6 minutes to happen. Even Roga Danar and his phaser resistant cellular structure only withstood 2 phaser shots. Admiral Quinn with purple bug critter installed only took 2 to take down as well.
I could buy that a Gorn might take more shots than that to kill.. what with them being resistant to giant foam rocks.. and of course, there's the borg and their shields. (but with no shields are taken down in 1 shot)
Standing around for 5 minutes while your character repeatedly shoots a klingon until it drops is not fun.
Star Trek isn't any of those properties. Star Trek is Star Trek. The objective of a Star Trek MMO should be to experience the virtualized universe of Star Trek as completely as possible given the technology..
and sure, you have to make some adjustments because it's a game.. but Cryptic is trying to cram Star Trek into a fantasy MMO model, which will never work.
I'll play it, my Star Trek nerdiness requires that I at least play the initial period that comes with the box.. but I'm not going to excuse a crappy Star Trek game just because it's one of the few Trek games we get these days.
As for fixing it.. even if they were able to fix it after release, it's too late. Age of Conan had a very successful release, but the game wasn't finished.. and although they did eventually fix a lot of those initial problems, by that time nobody was playing the game anymore.. and Age of Conan had a gameplay system that worked. STO's is still broken.
Nope.
The launch of an MMO is largely irrelevant. To be successful, an MMO needs to have a solid design, compelling gameplay, and an obvious potential for continuous expansions.
STO lacks crafting of any kind, which in itself will eventually result in failure. It is XP and grind based, a model that people are bored with because of WoW, and it has amazingly crappy graphics.. Bridge Commander had better graphics and it came out years ago.
If that weren't enough, STO has zero endgame content, and no signs of any of it appearing in the future. They can't even manage to finish the Klingon content.
There's what? 50 years of Star Trek stuff they could put in? I don't think anyone expects them to cram 50 years of Trek into the game, but they do need to build a strong foundation from which to add stuff later. Right now, their foundation is garbage, and they'll have to server merge before the end of 2010.
Maybe a miracle will happen between now and the release, and suddenly all that stuff that STO is missing will appear.. but looking at how crappy Champions Online is, I'm gonna say that's unlikely.
AN MMO is a persistant world that never stops development. If you do stop development on an MMO, it just gets stagnant and dies.
There's no support for old trek games because those old trek games are not MMO's. There is no money in updating Birth of the Federation or Klingon Academy with a patch.
For the record, I liked the new trek movie.
However, I know MMO's and I know Trek, and I can tell you that this game is doomed from the beginning.. I know people want to like it, I want to like it too.. but the truth is that it's just not that good a game, and people will get bored with it after 2 or 3 months.
You're right though, the open beta will open everyone'e eyes.
Spoken like someone who has never played Star Wars Galaxies.. and anyways, after the Jar Jar disaster, I think Star Wars fans are pretty much steeled against the worst that can happen.
That's a pretty big if. Right now it doesn't seem dissimilar enough from other MMOs to stay afloat for particularly long. Standing out is the key. Right now, it looks very similar to a lot of the competition, ship combat nonwithstanding. Now, if they'd gone completely innovative on gameplay and not rushed things to try and gut-punch SWTOR before inevitably being trampled by it, we'd be getting somewhere.
I'm an avid gamer and I know a rushed game when I see one. Crptic wants this out the door as soon as possible, and that rush is going to kill potential content, kill gameplay refinment, basically kill any advantage STO could have at launch were it given a reasonable development period.
And for the record, I liked the new movie. Didn't love it, but I saw no reason to hate it.
To be frank with you, no Star Trek game has ever been very accurate, nor should they be. Having someone drop a player with a single blast in an MMO itself would be of no fun. Come up with a list of the most acclaimed Trek games ever, either personally or critically, and you'll find a boatload of inaccuracies. (and, in some sense, every Star Trek game ever made is a "fantasy" of some sort, as well. And no one likes dying very much even in a fantasy).
Since video games are a far different medium than film or television, I think a little leeway with the mechanics is required here. So what if Star Trek isn't those properties? So what if it takes a series of phaser shots to down someone?The same logic applies:
-in any dungions & dragons type film, someone dies with a single stab wound
-in comics and comic films, human heroes can be killed with a simple wooden bat
-in the Matrix films, good guys go down with a single shot
...and yet no one complains about the lack of realism in their respective MMOs. Hell, World of Warcraft keeps growing and a live action film is in progress. What are the odds that there will be characters in the film that will go down with one single attack, as opposed to the dozens of blows in the game?
Lastly, let's also remember that the game is highly anticipated, partly because it's being marketed to a much wider crowd who aren't as hardcore Trekkies as we are and frankly don't know who someone like Donar is and probably don't care. Trying to be as inclusive as possible means stretching the lore just a bit in exchange for gameplay. Getting killed in an instant because of one misstep, especially in an MMO where lesser computers are bound to have a bit more lag than other players, will certainly turn players away. If there's a lag issue and an enemy is kill-stolen by a single shot, or if your player dies because of that lag issue, you will get frustrated and eventually drop the game. With MMOs, you need a concensus of sorts, the most perfect balance that you can strive for. One shotting NPCs or players right from the start is counterproductive to that.
"IT'S STAR TREK! IT MUST BE PERFECT!" Well, perfection is in the eye of the beholder. We all know Star Trek is special and that a game of this order should be held to a higher standard, but let's also remember all the other factors that go into making a game, such as the very nature of online gaming itself.
That's because they didn't have personal shields. Ground Combat NPCs in STO, however, do.
It's 30 years after Nemesis and almost 40 years after the Dominion War. Ground Combat has simply evolved.
You know fuck all, you haven't even played the game yet.
STO will do just fine because the majority of Trek fans who will pick it up and have a good time with it aren't sperglords who cry ruin and decay at every opportunity. No game (especially one beholden to an existing property) is perfect and while this one has it's fair share of flaws, it's loads of fun. You get to explore, engage in combat and basically craft all your shit around your personal preferences. Of course none of this matters to you, because you've already made up your mind based on whatever horseshit you've concocted.
The losers crying the loudest about STO's "failure" are the ones that consistently seem to have no idea what the fuck they're talking about. "Oh, I'm an avid gamer! I know all about MMOs! I literally piss in bottles so I don't have to get out of my chair during raids!" Fuck you people, it's always the same dipshit complaints over and over again and when your dire predictions are always ignored you conveniently find other things to bitch about. I suggest you quit poopsocking for an hour or two and maybe go outside and talk to a girl or something.
To the rest of you reasonable folk, ignore this fuckass and listen to a guy who's actually played the game: It's fun, it feels like Star Trek and I don't see myself getting bored with it any time soon.
Of course allowances must be made because it's a video game. My point was that taking 5 minutes to kill one Klingon is not fun, especially as there is nothing for the player to do for those minutes except sit and watch the phaser shoot over and over.
I'm not looking for perfection, I'm looking for a playable game that won't get boring after a week.
Okay, I can buy that as a plot excuse why it takes so much time to kill a klingon, but waiting for things to die still isn't fun.
Really? You seem to know an awful lot about me. Have you been stalking me?
Oh my, now look who's talking like they have played the game. Way to follow up one statement with one completely contradicting you.
Not to really nitpick here, but there is no crafting in STO at all. As for exploration, It's not like you're going to go where no man has gone before here. You can visit the entire universe in less than 24 hours.
and I've already talked about the combat, so I won't repeat myself there.
I'm glad you are psychic. Perhaps you can pay for that STO subscription by giving readings.
I've spent 12 years playing and working on various MMO's. I mean, it's cool you don't care and everything.. but maybe.. just maybe.. those people who have played MMO's for a long time know what they're talking about, it's really not that difficult a market to understand if you spend any time around it at all.
Dude, you're talking about a video game. Time to calm down a little, breathe through the nose and so forth.
For the record, I've preordered the game, and I hope you do too. I just don't hold out much hope of it being very good.
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First thing that came to mind on seeing that combat video was Bridge Commander when you use the outside views, the tactical layout is alone the same lines.....seems to have a bit of previous Trek games.....3D graphics looks like Bridge commander/Legacy.......shields from the Command series....weapons charging also from the Trek command series of games.
But that's a plus, i love Bridge commander and the Command games..
But that's a plus, i love Bridge commander and the Command games..
Don't you think you're exaggerating with the 5 minutes, too? I mean, no MMO has a level 1 grunt that takes that long to kill. Have you played the game?
(and really, in all the gameplay footage we've seen, official and unofficial, we only see a few seconds of sustained combat in any given scene. So where are we getting the 5 minutes from?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiABzxLfLvM
It takes about 45 seconds for 5 guys to take down a klingon in this video.. so I guess it's actually closer to 4 minutes for one guy, give or take.
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