Spoilers Star Trek: Lower Decks 1x02 - "Envoys"

[Noname Given]

Uh, that makes no sense. First of all, of course I know that LDS is set after DS9. Second, how can you blame DS9? I guess you don't realize that ENT and DIS were filmed after DS9?

But both take place 200 and 100 years prior (in Universe0, and a lot can happen in that time (IE - Section 31 was probably NOT a 'big secret' like it became by the 24th century) - but my point was that Bashir, O'Brien, and Sisko WANTED the get the knowledge RE Section 31 out into the open, so perhaps they have by 2380; so again, that's on DS9.

 

[Freman]

Liking the show so far, which I'm honestly surprised by. But they need to tone down Mariner a few notches. She's the one, to me anyway, that's stopping the show from being truly good Trek.

They did give her some good character development at the end though, so hopefully she's gonna stop being so obnoxious eventually.

 

[fireproof78]

It can be both obnoxious and good Trek

 

[Trekker4747]

That was a called a "Valentine to the fans."

Eh, same thing.

 

[Ometiklan]

But both take place 200 and 100 years prior (in Universe0, and a lot can happen in that time (IE - Section 31 was probably NOT a 'big secret' like it became by the 24th century) - but my point was that Bashir, O'Brien, and Sisko WANTED the get the knowledge RE Section 31 out into the open, so perhaps they have by 2380; so again, that's on DS9.

I no longer have any idea what are you arguing. The original issue was which series (if any) was responsible for screwing up the "status" of Section 31. The original premise was that it was DS9 that messed it up. That is literally impossible as it was the series that originated the concept, thus any inconsistencies are due to later series.

If you are instead trying to somehow argue that, in universe, Section 31 was not actually as secret as the staff on the space station Deep Space Nine thought it was - then again you must be 100% incorrect. All information presented in the S31 episodes indicates it was very secretive with no evidence to the contrary. Just because that doesn't align with common knowledge of Section 31 in the 22nd or 23rd centuries, doesn't lend any credence to the idea that S31 was well known in the 2370s. Now, in LDS it is openly known. Hence, in universe, the actions of the crew on Deep Space Nine revealed S31 to Starfleet at large

If you are somehow trying to indicate an additional concept or that it is all just a joke (due to the winking emoji), I am not catching your drift.

 

[fireproof78]

Eh, same thing.

Eh, I mean it can be but certainly there have been other nods to Trek's past in series that work very well. I credit "Trials and Tribble'ations" for getting me in to DS9.

 

[Lord Garth]

I no longer have any idea what are you arguing. The original issue was which series (if any) was responsible for screwing up the "status" of Section 31. The original premise was that it was DS9 that messed it up. That is literally impossible as it was the series that originated the concept, thus any inconsistencies are due to later series.

If you are instead trying to somehow argue that, in universe, Section 31 was not actually as secret as the staff on the space station Deep Space Nine thought it was - then again you must be 100% incorrect. All information presented in the S31 episodes indicates it was very secretive with no evidence to the contrary. Just because that doesn't align with common knowledge of Section 31 in the 22nd or 23rd centuries, doesn't lend any credence to the idea that S31 was well known in the 2370s. Now, in LDS it is openly known. Hence, in universe, the actions of the crew on Deep Space Nine revealed S31 to Starfleet at large

If you are somehow trying to indicate an additional concept or that it is all just a joke (due to the winking emoji), I am not catching your drift.

I'll make this as simple as 1, 2, 3.

Sisko and Bashir wanted to expose Section 31. They say so in "Inquisition" and "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges". In The Final Chapter, O'Brien helps Bashir to uncover Section 31's secrets. See "Tacking Into the Wind" and "Extreme Measures". Very likely, because of this, Section 31 was exposed afterwards.

 

[Freman]

It can be both obnoxious and good Trek

Oh no doubt. I don't mind a show being a bit obnoxious from time to time, but when it's one specific character doing it all the time, then that character starts to get on my nerves.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Boimler is portrayed as a little too dumb. I think the Mariner/Boimler thing would work a lot better if he actually was book smart, as opposed to her being a genius about everything and him being barely competent at basic tasks.

Mariner would be a lot more entertaining if all her entertainment weren't at her dummy friend's expense.

Right now, yeah, he is the guy who gets vaporized or eaten or something in every episode to show there's a threat, he only avoids redshirting because he has a babysitter keeping a close eye on him. They should at least make him minimally competent.

 

[fireproof78]

Oh no doubt. I don't mind a show being a bit obnoxious from time to time, but when it's one specific character doing it all the time, then that character starts to get on my nerves.

Fair enough. Mariner straddles that line well enough for me. I love how she appears self-serving at times but has a genuine desire to help, even if it is obnoxious help.

 

[XCV330]

I'll make this as simple as 1, 2, 3.

Sisko and Bashir wanted to expose Section 31. They say so in "Inquisition" and "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges". In The Final Chapter, O'Brien helps Bashir to uncover Section 31's secrets. See "Tacking Into the Wind" and "Extreme Measures". Very likely, because of this, Section 31 was exposed after this.

exactly. it would be stranger if no one ever ever knew anything about sec31, which would imply that UFP society was even more dangerously occluded than DS9 let on.

not to mention Sec 31 had been known a century before, so even if it supposedly did not exist anymore. people might have known about it once. NKVD, Stasi, the Frumentarii.. all long gone secret police agencies. But we know about them. Not ALL about them in some cases, but we know about them.

An example of an agency coming to light is the NRO. it came into existance in the early 60's but wasn't publically known until the early 90's. Everyone knows it exists now, several decades on.

 

[Tuskin38]

The title of ep 3 is "Temporal Edict", so the screenshot of Mariner wearing gold and playing cards with the senior staff might be an alternate timeline?

Well the preview for the episode didn't seem to be a time travel episode, but everyone being on some sort of timed schedules.

 

[XCV330]

She's far from perfect. She's very flawed. Awesome? Nah. Maybe in her own head. Great? Time will tell.
She was more than willing to take a hit on her rep to help out Boilmer. So gotta disagree.

i think people are expecting some kind of positive character development as well. that's not really necessary, not in a positive sense, though they might go that route. This is a ship of fuck-ups. Not everyone is going to rise to medocrity from where they are now. Tendi and Rutherford might turn out just fine. Boimler is not good material, and Mariner is both too talented and too jaded for life in a fleet. She's going to spend so much time proving nepotism isn't how she succeeds that nepotism (and recruiting shortages) is probably the only thing keeping her from getting a dishonorable discharge. If there's a ship where the captain has such a good reputation he or she gets to request the best of the best, it ain't the Cerritos. I'm going to enjoy the blunders and not give a damn if their lives improve.

 

[dswynne1]

...With such things running on autopilot, what I'm really interested in is how Mariner's parents turn out. So far, we have seen Freeman do quite an evil queen act; there's not much there that we could easily predict about the background, the upcoming revelations, and the plot role played by Mom. And there's even less on Dad so far.

Timo Saloniemi

Out of all the characters, it's Mariner's backstory that is intriguing to me. Something must have happened, because we know that Mariner is capable of being a competent Starfleet officer, but doesn't give a darn about anything other than staying in Starfleet in order to please her parents (which I assume is the case, since she could easily resign her commission).

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Besides the Vendorian, Ariolo, etc., there were also a couple of Aurelians (or possibly Skorr)!

Top center and lower right:

And the ones behind the Evora here look like they could be Arcturians:

-MMoM

 

[Markonian]

Great images! Do we have any way of telling whether that's an Aurelian or a Skorr?

 

[matthunter]

Well the preview for the episode didn't seem to be a time travel episode, but everyone being on some sort of timed schedules.

This is what's known as me speculating before the trailer came out, and being wrong.

It happens.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Great images! Do we have any way of telling whether that's an Aurelian or a Skorr?

Not really, since the design of the latter was a straight-up re-use of the former by Bob Kline...but I'd wager Aurelians, since they were likely Federation members, whereas the Skorr seemed more ancient and mysterious and stand-offish. Plus, "Yesteryear" (TAS) is probably a better-remembered episode than "The Jihad" (TAS). (But could go either way...or even one of each?)

-MMoM

 

[cooleddie74]

I totally missed the Evora!

 

[BillJ]

I totally missed the Evora!

I missed them because I haven’t seen Insurrection in a good ten years.