Star Trek is a Batman Begins Reboot
- Thread starter The Super Brando
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I can't say I agree with that, really - it's no more different to the 'established' TOS-VOY timeline than ENT was - in fact, it seems a sensible continuation of the ENT designs. To the point in fact that I would postulate that was deliberate. It even has the 'phaser turret' concept that ENT used.
Well, it IS a different timeline. It was started by this Henry Starling guy, you know. Because of him introducing 29th century technologies, he broke a natural chain of events leading to original Kirk's universe. Thanks to Starling, they got no moonbases, no Nomad probe, no Eugenic wars, no Mars colonization until 2040s, no sublight interstellar flight, and thus, no Zephram Cochrane of Alpha Centauri. Since then, shit just adds up, resulting in Archer's Enterprise, Kelvin, Abramsprise built in Iowa, and so on, and so on, ad nauseam, ad vomitum.
Nero didn't really break anything, aside of a handful of old ships. The real cause is same as always: BLAME JANEWAY!
Nero didn't really break anything, aside of a handful of old ships. The real cause is same as always: BLAME JANEWAY!
It's okay; nothing much that's happened since TOS matters now anyhow. 
I see what you're saying, but it may be more a strategy than literal. They are supposedly wanted to re-reboot Superman, and they re-rebooted Hulk, in 20 years they'll probably have a Spiderman Begins movie... this time they did it but maintain some connect to the Trek before.
Its tough because I want to enjoy the film AND enjoy seeing Kirk and crew at the same time, but its like I'm watching another set of characters altogether. Its really NOT Kirk and crew. (Not THE Kirk and crew).
In fact, I kind of just wish they gave them all different names and didn't do it this way. But hey, that's been argued over and over... I would have enjoyed it if they were named Spirk, Kock, Scones and Botty just as well...um...wait...that doesn't really work I just caught that....
Its tough because I want to enjoy the film AND enjoy seeing Kirk and crew at the same time, but its like I'm watching another set of characters altogether. Its really NOT Kirk and crew. (Not THE Kirk and crew).
In fact, I kind of just wish they gave them all different names and didn't do it this way. But hey, that's been argued over and over... I would have enjoyed it if they were named Spirk, Kock, Scones and Botty just as well...um...wait...that doesn't really work I just caught that....
qft. Stop nitpicking, enjoy the movie.
But nitpicking is part of the fun. "It was great except I wish the ship was 2 centimeters longer!!"
I have to say I would agree with that and it's not for the reasons you sited but for one very different reason. If it was the spock from the known ST universe he might have considered using the guardian of forever to undo what Nero had done.
I'm with you. I didn't read anything about the film beforehand so while I was watching the movie it seemed very evident to me that this was supposed to be a re-boot not connected to the TOS universe. It was only when I came home and read some stuff on the Internet that I realized there was this debate. The main reason I thought this was a different universe were the characters ages. They are much closer in age in this movie than they are in the series. Besides what really is the difference between a non-TOS universe and a TOS universe where the Narada/Kelvin incident dramatically changed just about every single second of that universe's history.
I wouldn't say they tricked fans, but they presented this reboot in a way that would keep the crazies from freaking out.
But to your other point; I agree 100% that the core and heart of Star Trek and all the characters is present in this new movie. It might be a different universe with a different timeline and different past, but it's Star Trek in it's essence.
The Kelvin's appearance and the mention of Admiral Archer and his beagle suggest otherwise. All implications in the film are that ENT's timeline was preserved until the moment the Narada appeared.
I'm not sure how the Kelvin's appearance suggests this is the same timeline, since it's the Kelvin itself that suggests otherwise with it's different tech. And Admiral Archer is just a wink to the fans, and isn't established anywhere in the movie that it's Archer from ENT.
I don't think a starship large enough to carry a crew of more than 800 is in line with what we know of in TOS.
Here's more:
- In this universe the Romulan ancestry is commonly known, and seeing a Romulan face for the first time never once was a big deal.
- In the original Trek incarnation the Federation in the 29th century had advanced time-travel technology, and they monitored the timeline specifically for massive changes like this. They would have prevented the events of this movie.
- The technology of the Kelvin is just so different. The design is so different.
- The most convincing argument I think is out-of-universe; the fimmakers and studio wanted to reboot Star Trek without outright saying they are disregarding old Trek and starting fresh like Batman Begins.
Also on a side note, I loved everything about this movie. I'm completely ok with a reboot like BB, because it was done so freaking well. I hope this new universe continues on for a long time.
The producers, writers and actors - plus the studio have decided that Nimoy is playing the original Spock. THE END.
The design arguments are too silly to get into - the reason it looks different is because it's a $150 million film made in 2009 and the designers thought that those designs were cool.
sometimes a cigar is a cigar.
The design arguments are too silly to get into - the reason it looks different is because it's a $150 million film made in 2009 and the designers thought that those designs were cool.
sometimes a cigar is a cigar.
What do you mean? $150m wasn't enough to recreate the look of the show?
That was too funny, I can't stop laughing!
No. No one wanted to replicate the look of the original show.
I wouldn't say no one wanted to, looks like some idio... people did.
The key word here is you "think"! I was asking what made you so utterly convinced that this cannot be. You proved my point that all of this is fan conjecture that has, with this film, been rendered moot, if we want to start the "canon" debate again. It's now canon that the Kelvin had 800 people aboard. End of story.
The Romulan ancestry is known in the Enterprise time as it would be, I assume if they destroyed one of your starships 20 years ago. Did anyone in the Kelvin sequence say anything about Romulans?
Oh, come on! Seriously, you're scraping the barrel of arguments if you're using some obscure one-off VGR episode to argue your point. If anything, the time-travel can of worms was opened there with the ridiculous notion of a "time police", not here.
Yeah, that's true. This is only my thoughts on this whole reboot thing. I can't get CSI to prove it's a Batman Begins movie, but I think that's what it reasonably looks like.
I can't remember, actually. But I do remember that Uhura intercepted a message that the Klingons were attacked by one massive Romulan ship. And now that I think about it, Kirk did mention that the Kelvin was attacked by Romulans, and everyone seemed to know that the Romulans were the ones who destroyed the Kelvin.
Either way, I don't remember at all in ENT where they found out what the Romulans looked like. That would have been out of line with what we know from TOS anyway. So here in this movie, you have them seeing the Romlans 'for the first time', looking exactly like Vulcans, and nobody thinks anything about it.
I don't think that's the first time they've seen Romulans, and they already know about the ancestry, because this movie isn't pre-TOS or post-ENT, because it's an entirely different rebooted universe.
^^ I still disagree. After all, the Narada Romulans didn't look like either Romulans or Vulcans, what with the tattoos and such. Also, the only person to see them was killed (Robau). Nevertheless, it is conceivable that the data gathered by the Kelvin was enough to identify them as Romulans, after which Starfleet might've sought out the Romulans to ask them politely why they let this big-ass mining ship destroy their precious starship. Remember what Starfleet did after the Xindi attacked Earth out of the blue?
I know there's an interview that Orci and Kurtzman gave to Trek Today where they outright said that up until the events of the movie, the only person's origin story that truly changed was Kirk's. That is, Scotty, Sulu, Spock, etc, their origins all happened pretty much the same regardless of the movie as their lives up to the movie had nothing to do with Nero's attack on the Kelvin.
Despite the writers' claims to the contrary, the new movie IS a reboot, but the idea that it's a TOTAL reboot - ala 'Batman Begins' - is a false one. The film does the same thing that 'Casino Royale' did for the James Bond franchise, rebooting and rejuvinating the property while still incorporating or referencing elements from previous iterations. The primary difference between 'Casino Royale' and 'Star Trek', however, is that ST offers an explanation - multiple explanations, actually - for its derivations, while CR did not.
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