Star Trek Into Darkness: More Explanations

[Jeyl]

I wish people would just be honest about why they dislike these films (they dislike the creators) instead of coming up with these insane reasons that don't make any sense.

Here's one. I think the message about how weaponizing Starfleet is wrong falls flat on it's face when the Enterprise has more torpedo launchers than all the previous Enterprise ships combined. Hard to argue your ships aren't ready for war when they can fire more torpedoes than the Enterprise D could on full spread.

 

[BillJ]

I wish people would just be honest about why they dislike these films (they dislike the creators) instead of coming up with these insane reasons that don't make any sense.

Here's one. I think the message about how weaponizing Starfleet is wrong falls flat on it's face when the Enterprise has more torpedo launchers than all the previous Enterprise ships combined. Hard to argue your ships aren't ready for war when they can fire more torpedoes than the Enterprise D could on full spread.

Starfleet was obviously already weaponized going all the way back to the 1960's with General Order 24 from A Taste of Armageddon. Then they were building warships in the late 24th century before there was even a war to be fought.

It's just another reason that makes no sense. Starfleet has always been armed to the teeth.

 

[OpenMaw]

But it was Khan's fault that it fucked up. Besides, Klingons.

Not quite. The Klingon was gonna stab Uhura right before Khan opened fire. If not for Khan, Uhura would likely have been dead or gravely injured.

 

[bullethead]

I wish people would just be honest about why they dislike these films (they dislike the creators) instead of coming up with these insane reasons that don't make any sense.

Here's one. I think the message about how weaponizing Starfleet is wrong falls flat on it's face when the Enterprise has more torpedo launchers than all the previous Enterprise ships combined. Hard to argue your ships aren't ready for war when they can fire more torpedoes than the Enterprise D could on full spread.

Starfleet was obviously already weaponized going all the way back to the 1960's with General Order 24 from A Taste of Armageddon. Then they were building warships in the late 24th century before there was even a war to be fought.

It's just another reason that makes no sense. Starfleet has always been armed to the teeth.

Not to mention the fact that weaponizing Starfleet is a sensible course of action after a founding world of the Federation got destroyed a year before. It's utterly eye rolling when Scotty complains about the mission being a military one when the ship already has anti-matter and directed energy weapons and they've used shuttles that were apparently designed for military purposes.

 

[FarStrider]

But it was Khan's fault that it fucked up. Besides, Klingons.

Not quite. The Klingon was gonna stab Uhura right before Khan opened fire. If not for Khan, Uhura would likely have been dead or gravely injured.

And here is another person who seems to have missed the fact that she stole the Klingon's knife and stabbed him with it. . .

~FS

 

[Set Harth]

But it was Khan's fault that it fucked up. Besides, Klingons.

Not quite. The Klingon was gonna stab Uhura right before Khan opened fire. If not for Khan, Uhura would likely have been dead or gravely injured.

And here is another person who seems to have missed the fact that she stole the Klingon's knife and stabbed him with it. . .

~FS

Uh, no. No one has missed that. It is irrelevant to the point that it was not Khan's fault that Uhura's attempt "fucked up", because we see that the Klingon was apparently going to stab her.

 

[OpenMaw]

And here is another person who seems to have missed the fact that she stole the Klingon's knife and stabbed him with it. . .

~FS

I'd appreciate it if you didn't lump me together with people that you seem to have a problem with. I'm not an idiot, thank you. There was a volley of phaser fire that distracted the Klingon, which Uhura took advantage of. Good for her, but...

The point is that Uhura, though incredibly brave, was not exactly succeeding at anything, and if not for Khan showing up to blow stuff up with his huge super-duper phaser cannon, she would have died along with the entire landing party.

 

[Commishsleer]

Too bad it didn't amount to anything extraordinary. When other characters do things like that, like Kirk and Spock going onto the Narada full of Romulans, they succeed. All Uhura does is delay a big fight which she also doesn't do much of anything.

I agree it was courageous of Uhura to do what she did, I just wish it amounted to something of equal value.

I wish people would just be honest about why they dislike these films (they dislike the creators) instead of coming up with these insane reasons that don't make any sense.

The 'real' problem is that this movie doesn't have Picard or Data in it IMO.
The other problems and inconsistencies are common to all Star Trek movies.

 

[FarStrider]

Not quite. The Klingon was gonna stab Uhura right before Khan opened fire. If not for Khan, Uhura would likely have been dead or gravely injured.

And here is another person who seems to have missed the fact that she stole the Klingon's knife and stabbed him with it. . .

~FS

Uh, no. No one has missed that. It is irrelevant to the point that it was not Khan's fault that Uhura's attempt "fucked up", because we see that the Klingon was apparently going to stab her.

How do we know her attempt "fucked up"? We don't, because Khan interfered. Uhura obviously knows Klingon language and culture: stabbing the lead Klingon with his own knife probably would have earned her a lot of respect from those in his command (and lost him a lot of face), making her someone they would bargain with. (See TNG episode "A Matter of Honor" for an example) You can say her attempt "fucked up", but you might not be right.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't lump me together with people that you seem to have a problem with. I'm not an idiot, thank you. There was a volley of phaser fire that distracted the Klingon, which Uhura took advantage of. Good for her, but...

The point is that Uhura, though incredibly brave, was not exactly succeeding at anything, and if not for Khan showing up to blow stuff up with his huge super-duper phaser cannon, she would have died along with the entire landing party.

I didn't call you an idiot. But you, like everyone here, has their own biases. We don't know if the Klingon would have stabbed her or was trying to scare her, or to draw her companions out of their ship, or cut her in a test of her own honor since she is the one who brought it up. . . like I said, we don't know if she was succeeding because Khan interfered. It's your bias that says she wasn't succeeding at anything.

~FS

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

But it was Khan's fault that it fucked up. Besides, Klingons.

Not quite. The Klingon was gonna stab Uhura right before Khan opened fire. If not for Khan, Uhura would likely have been dead or gravely injured.

And here is another person who seems to have missed the fact that she stole the Klingon's knife and stabbed him with it. . .

~FS

IN.THE.BALLS.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Do we know for a fact that Klingon balls are located there?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I'm pretty sure Jadzia would have let us know in some coy way if they were not.

 

[OpenMaw]

I didn't call you an idiot. But you, like everyone here, has their own biases. We don't know if the Klingon would have stabbed her or was trying to scare her, or to draw her companions out of their ship, or cut her in a test of her own honor since she is the one who brought it up. . . like I said, we don't know if she was succeeding because Khan interfered. It's your bias that says she wasn't succeeding at anything.

~FS

The argument was that somehow Khan ruined the situation. That's not what the movie shows us or leads us to believe. It actually shows us quite the opposite.

It's pretty clear given the body language and attitude present in the Klingon that he didn't believe what she said and was going to kill her. If there was any honor in it, he would not have tried to stealthily draw his knife.

The only 'bias' I have in this regard is simply knowing how Klingons and humans don't exactly get along in this era, and in the reboot it's only worse thanks to Marcus.

Everything from the music to the editing tells us he's going to kill her up until the moment Khan stops them.

 

[Kemaiku]

Here's one. I think the message about how weaponizing Starfleet is wrong falls flat on it's face when ...

When in the very first pilot they flat out stated the Enterprise's phasers could blast away half a continent quickly and effectively without any effort?

Never mind that in TOS the Photon torpedoes were last resort weapons of devastating power that could cause far more destruction.

That GO-24 meant using them in tandom to destroy a whole freaking planet for disagreeing with Starfleet directives?

Yeah. Total teddy bears.

 

[SeerSGB]

Here's one. I think the message about how weaponizing Starfleet is wrong falls flat on it's face when ...

When in the very first pilot they flat out stated the Enterprise's phasers could blast away half a continent quickly and effectively without any effort?

Never mind that in TOS the Photon torpedoes were last resort weapons of devastating power that could cause far more destruction.

That GO-24 meant using them in tandom to destroy a whole freaking planet for disagreeing with Starfleet directives?

Yeah. Total teddy bears.

One of the more screwed up messages in TOS was how Kirk consistently put the well being and safety of 400+ people over the lives of millions (billions) whenever they destabilized some planet's govt. or destroyed some super computer.

"Yeah, I know we technically invaded your sovereign territory and violated your "god's" taboos...but we've got the bigger guns", "You're free! Oh sure you're planet's weather is now wonky as shit cause we killed the computer that stabilized it for you and gave you near perfect health, you know nothing about how to take care of yourselves or about illness or child birth, much less taking care and raising a child, and cause of us you were introduced to the concept of murder and jealously...but you're free! See ya'"

 

[BillJ]

One of the more screwed up messages in TOS was how Kirk consistently put the well being and safety of 400+ people over the lives of millions (billions) whenever they destabilized some planet's govt. or destroyed some super computer.

"Yeah, I know we technically invaded your sovereign territory and violated your "god's" taboos...but we've got the bigger guns", "You're free! Oh sure you're planet's weather is now wonky as shit cause we killed the computer that stabilized it for you and gave you near perfect health, you know nothing about how to take care of yourselves or about illness or child birth, much less taking care and raising a child, and cause of us you were introduced to the concept of murder and jealously...but you're free! See ya'"

To be fair, Kirk did try to leave Gamma Trianguli VI in The Apple when trouble first started up an Vaal prevented them from doing so. At that point, it was on. Much like the Eminians and their game, if there was going to be more traffic in the area in the future a creature like Vaal could have caused trouble to other ships.

But in most situtations I tend to agree that Kirk usually took things too far.

 

[ComicGuy89]

Eh Kirk's reasons could be justified, but I will admit that they're mostly wrong in these situations. It will take the TOS movies before Kirk realizes he's not as smart as he likes to think he is.

 

[OpenMaw]

Eh Kirk's reasons could be justified, but I will admit that they're mostly wrong in these situations.

Oh, really?

 

[BillJ]

Eh Kirk's reasons could be justified, but I will admit that they're mostly wrong in these situations.

Oh, really?

I would say his actions at the end of A Taste of Armageddon were wrong. He had freed the landing party and the Enterprise was no longer in danger yet he chose to destroy the Eminians war computers anyway.

He had a right to save his people, once that was accomplished any further action was just him forcing his moral viewpoint on the Eminians.

 

[ComicGuy89]

Eh Kirk's reasons could be justified, but I will admit that they're mostly wrong in these situations.

Oh, really?

I would say his actions at the end of A Taste of Armageddon were wrong. He had freed the landing party and the Enterprise was no longer in danger yet he chose to destroy the Eminians war computers anyway.

He had a right to save his people, once that was accomplished any further action was just him forcing his moral viewpoint on the Eminians.

I felt at the very least he should have explained his plan to the Eminians and tried to reason with them instead of taking the gamble he did.

For some reason though, Kirk doesn't annoy me so much when he's heavy-handed like this compared to say, Picard or Janeway.