Star Trek in 4K

[Metryq]

It's a shame because there's some fantastic fan service in there.

You mean like super-extreme closeups of the ship passing by while in orbit? Many of the shots of that sort go against the original production design, which is why they stick out rather than fitting in. (Camera movement and framing were different in TOS.)

The closeup of the missing ion pod in "Court Martial" was good, but most of those super closeups were just too inyerface for me.

It's just a damn shame the studio made them rush it.

Rush it... I worked with a Polish guy in one job. When things got busy, he'd try to move double-time, which simply got him worn out without helping the situation. So I casually remarked, "Don't be rushin'." <rimshot>

He stopped to think about that, then agreed it was a good idea.

 

[alchemist]

I've been curious about that. Since the VFX were done by outside parties, I assume that only the complete shots were delivered to the series producers. Thus, whether or not the individual elements and plates still exist would depend on whether or not the optical house archived everything (and whether or not the optical house still exists). But I could be wrong. Maybe the production crew got archives of everything.

I have frames from the individual elements of most of the VFX shots for the series--spaceship and planet models, star fields, animations, etc. I also have frames from positive, negative, interpositive, and internegative film. Most all of these were sold by Lincoln (at one time) which they obtained from the studio film vault(s).

So would the owners of STAR TREK have kept the VFX elements all this time, assuming they once had them?

I’ve been told that they did not keep them, but I’d love to learn otherwise.

 

[YARN]

It's a shame because there's some fantastic fan service in there.

You mean like super-extreme closeups of the ship passing by while in orbit? Many of the shots of that sort go against the original production design, which is why they stick out rather than fitting in. (Camera movement and framing were different in TOS.)

The closeup of the missing ion pod in "Court Martial" was good, but most of those super closeups were just too inyerface for me.

There is a lot of stuff that is off. The ship looks grey instead of white. And it doesn't look like it is part of the same world. The film grain is not right. The ship looks cartoony.

I am not pining for bad matte lines or anything, but when we see the ship, it should look like we're seeing with the same "eye" are when we're inside the ship.

 

[Robert Comsol]

The closeup of the missing ion pod in "Court Martial" was good, but most of those super closeups were just too inyerface for me.

I'm not trying to revive an old argument, but the TOS-R location of the "ion pod" was a lateral and blinking navigational light in the original series.

The "bomb bay" door at the bottom to release probes was ridiculous and only emphasized the "spaceplane" character TOS-R presented.

The access hatch below the starboard nacelle pylon became a window and the second bow hatch at the saucer's bottom became somewhat cut into half by a new TOS-R window.

What I would have really liked to see would have been a possibly faster catapult launch of the shuttlecraft but instead we got these Star Wars style hovering shuttles.

(sorry, I just wanted to say something about the ion pod but obviously couldn't restrain myself ).

Bob

 

[Metryq]

I'm not trying to revive an old argument, but the TOS-R location of the "ion pod" was a lateral and blinking navigational light in the original series.

No worries, Bob. I did not mean the location of the ion pod met with my approval, just that the type of shot warranted the passing closeup. The same goes for the other items you listed.

I understand the CGI crew was trying to diversify the shots, rather than take the stock-shot approach necessitated by budget for the original. However, many of the shots upstaged the "meanwhile back at the ranch" nature of the original shots. When a camera pulls in very tight on something, the audience is alerted to pay attention to some detail. That becomes a false alarm in most cases.

 

[feek61]

The closeup of the missing ion pod in "Court Martial" was good, but most of those super closeups were just too inyerface for me.

I'm not trying to revive an old argument, but the TOS-R location of the "ion pod" was a lateral and blinking navigational light in the original series.

The "bomb bay" door at the bottom to release probes was ridiculous and only emphasized the "spaceplane" character TOS-R presented.

The access hatch below the starboard nacelle pylon became a window and the second bow hatch at the saucer's bottom became somewhat cut into half by a new TOS-R window.

What I would have really liked to see would have been a possibly faster catapult launch of the shuttlecraft but instead we got these Star Wars style hovering shuttles.

(sorry, I just wanted to say something about the ion pod but obviously couldn't restrain myself ).

Bob

It's the missing windows on the forward dorsal that just drive me crazy on the TOS-R E

Honestly I don't mind seeing the original effects; flaws and all. When I saw "The Menagerie" in the theater they showed a package prior to the movie which went through the creation of the CGI effects. They showed a shot of the original hangar bay footage (from "The Galileo Seven") and honestly it looked fantastic on the big screen. I'm cool with the original effects shots in 4K even if they don't completely stand up. Honestly part of the character of Trek is some of those rushed composite shots and to me they are much preferable

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I have frames from the individual elements of most of the VFX shots for the series--spaceship and planet models, star fields, animations, etc. I also have frames from positive, negative, interpositive, and internegative film. Most all of these were sold by Lincoln (at one time) which they obtained from the studio film vault(s).

"Obtained" is a polite way of putting it. According to Justman and Solow's book, Gene and Majel literally drove a truck up to the studio building and emptied Star Trek's work-print film vault.

I suspect G&M are also the ones who stole all the TOS music scores, maybe on that same day. The audio tapes were later fenced to a collector, who some time later sold them to Neil Norman. Norman obviously bought the tapes after his release of "The Cage"/"Where No Man" (mastered from Alexander Courage's personal dubs) but before GNP Volume 2, "Amok Time"/"The Doomsday Machine."

You could argue that the stolen work print films were no great loss to Star Trek, and arguably were even rescued by theft, because Paramount might have sent them to the incinerator to free up a vault, while instead fans saved and restored them for scanning to the Internet.

But stealing the music tapes was a very big deal, and it's incredibly lucky that they didn't disappear for good when "somebody" fenced them to a collector. Their rescue and preservation by Neil Norman, and their eventual complete CD release, was a chancy thing that could easily have never happened.

 

[Metryq]

^ Are those CDs in 4K?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

^ Are those CDs in 4K?

Regular CD Audio: it wouldn't be a format if someone wasn't turning their nose up.

 

[alchemist]

According to Justman and Solow's book, Gene and Majel literally drove a truck up to the studio building and emptied Star Trek's work-print film vault.

Bjo Trimble has a different recollection. Link.

 

[ACE]

After the series ended, the individual effects companies (Anderson, Dunn, Van Der Veer, Westheimer, and Cinema Research) gathered up all of their elements and sent them to Paramount to be libraried. This included any o-neg, work prints, dupes, IPs, INs and comps. What was cut up and went to most of the collectors through Lincoln Enterprises were from work prints and IPs.

The o-negs were not cut into frames and sold, since that would be ridiculously destructive and impractical, not to mention that no one would want to project a negative image.

 

[alchemist]

After the series ended, the individual effects companies (Anderson, Dunn, Van Der Veer, Westheimer, and Cinema Research) gathered up all of their elements and sent them to Paramount to be libraried. This included any o-neg, work prints, dupes, IPs, INs and comps.

I would love for this material to be found somewhere. Unfortunately, I've also been told by folks at CBS that not much of this non-used original film exists today.

What was cut up and went to most of the collectors through Lincoln Enterprises were from work prints and IPs.

The o-negs were not cut into frames and sold, since that would be ridiculously destructive and impractical, not to mention that no one would want to project a negative image.

Yes, the majority of the film that was cut up and sold by Lincoln was from the work prints. However, Lincoln received a lot of varied film, some of which they cut up and sold and some of which they deemed not sellable. (It's unclear to me how they differentiated between the two categories.) The original camera negatives, which were/are rare, fall into this latter category and they were generally not cut. However, some negs did cut up and those frames found their way out of Lincoln.

(And on a side note, some entire "unsellable" rolls found their way out of Lincoln... fortunately.)

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Bjo Trimble has a different recollection. Link.

Thanks for that. There's a bunch of good info in it. The bit about Majel deciding that clips should be cut up roughly on purpose, and be half-destroyed to seem more authentic, rings true to me.

But I think Justman & Solow got the film source question right, while Trimble, for all her many good points, is still a founding member of GR's personality cult. Note that her answer to the question "Were they really removed from Desilu..." is phrased entirely in the passive voice: it's vague and doesn't say who did what. I think she is either deflecting the question with a snow job like a politician on Meet the Press, or she believes the snow job that GR handed her.

Conversely, Justman and Solow are direct (active voice) and specific in their account of discovering that the film had been carted away, and as studio executives they were in a position to know first-hand that Paramount did not give Lincoln permission to make off with that material. So again, I believe them.

The way things worked out in the long run, we're better off for Lincoln having done this, of course. Cutting up the film and casting it to the four winds was the way to preserve it for history, as crazy as that sounds.

 

[Metryq]

The way things worked out in the long run, we're better off for Lincoln having done this, of course.

That still leaves the question as to whether or not the film was theirs to take. Didn't the studio own it? If G&M had waited until the studio was going to toss it, then no problem. If G&M had asked, and the studio said, "Sure, take it," again, no problem.

But the "better in the long run" argument sounds like something from one of the Stainless Steel Rat stories (if I'm remembering the source correctly). The thief argues that robbing banks is good for everyone because it stimulates the local economy, gives the detectives an opportunity to practice their skills, etc.

 

[toonloon]

They belonged to the studio, period. Gene and majel got away with it and thank
Goodness they did.

 

[Borjis]

^ Are those CDs in 4K?

16-bit "44K"hz!

 

[Indysolo]

But transferred, edited and restored at 96/24. Perhaps someday...

 

[Borjis]

The Blu-Ray audio format would be perfect for that.