Star trek III b: No Search for Spock

[LMFAOschwarz]

I sometimes wonder what would have happened if Leonard Nimoy had bowed out of Star Trek. Wanting back in after having a good time with Star Trek II, what if the studio had said, "Sorry, you made your bed, and now you've got to sleep in it", or Nimoy just decided to call it quits and ride off into the sunset?

I know about all the talk of the Xon character slated for The Motion Picture to replace Spock, but I can't really imagine how that would have panned out. Sort of like Cheers replacing Coach with Woody, you're kind of getting the same thing...but not really.

I can see the Mad magazine parody now: a Mort Drucker Kirk telling Xon something like "You're supposed to have emotions, Spo...eh, I mean Xon. That way people won't think you're a rip-off of Spo..I mean, the guy you replaced!"

And what would happen to Xon if Nimoy decided to come back, like a proto-Denise Crosby? Does Xon get kicked out, or is he relegated to a background role like an interstellar Potsie?

We'll never know, of course, but I'm glad it worked out as it did.

 

[Lance]

I sometimes wonder what would have happened if Leonard Nimoy had bowed out of Star Trek. Wanting back in after having a good time with Star Trek II, what if the studio had said, "Sorry, you made your bed, and now you've got to sleep in it".

According to Leonard, this is more or less exactly what they did. He suggested to Harve Bennett the idea of trying out for director of STIII, but Paramount started playing hard ball by saying they couldn't employ a guy who "hated being in Star Trek so much he wanted to be killed off". Leonard then had to convince them that, no he wasn't sick of Star Trek, he would be happy to bring Spock back to life, etc etc.

I suspect that if the carrot of being the director hadn't been spinning around, then Leonard and Star Trek would've definitely parted company after TWOK.

 

[Maurice]

That doesn't match what I recall Nimoy stating. He said he pointed out to them that his contract for TWOK had no such "kill Spock" clause. I don't think he had to promise them he'd bring Spock back, just prove to them he didn't hate Star Trek.

It's not hard to imagine Spock not coming back. They didn't need Xon. That's what Saavik and David were there for: the Next Generation, literally.

 

[Khan 2.0]

if Nimoy had been satisfied with Spocks death being the end of his time with Trek (no 'remember' scene or soft landing of the torpedo) I think Savvik would've replaced Spock for III onwards (maybe that's why she was brought in in the first place?) and maybe they wouldn't have replaced Alley.

as to what Trek III would've been about instead of the search for spock? first off I think GR would've been suggesting his JFK story again. then Bennett and possibly Meyer (he didn't do III as he didn't want to bring back Spock so maybe hed have done III otherwise) would've come up with a story... maybe involving the new Genesis planet and maybe the Klingons as happened but with no spock..? or maybe some new story completely unconnected to Genesis

But the rest of the Star Trek movies without Spock?...man that might've been abit of a tough sell. maybe they wouldn't have made it to VI..maybe just 4 original cast films and then Trek becomes all about TNG

 

[Melakon]

As I remember it, the only reason Alley didn't come back was her agent asked for more money than they were wiling to pay.

 

[Mudd]

It would have been Saavik. Pity, really, that Alley didn't have her turn. And no, Curtis was not a minimally acceptable replacement.

There are a lot of stories about why Alley didn't come back. What is true is that the new young cast members were not well-treated by some of the long-timers.

 

[Lance]

According to Leonard, this is more or less exactly what they did. He suggested to Harve Bennett the idea of trying out for director of STIII, but Paramount started playing hard ball by saying they couldn't employ a guy who "hated being in Star Trek so much he wanted to be killed off". Leonard then had to convince them that, no he wasn't sick of Star Trek, he would be happy to bring Spock back to life, etc etc.

That doesn't match what I recall Nimoy stating. He said he pointed out to them that his contract for TWOK had no such "kill Spock" clause. I don't think he had to promise them he'd bring Spock back, just prove to them he didn't hate Star Trek.

Nah, that's what I said. Nimoy claimed (in Shatner's 'Movie Memories') that they tried the "but you don't like Star Trek anymore, you made us kill Spock off!!!" tactic as a means of brushing him off from the directing gig, and he countered that by pointing out it wasn't his idea to kill Spock in the first place, and it was never something he had written into any contract.

It's a little murky how Leonard got offered the director's job in the first place: whether he approached Harve or whether Harve approached him. But when it came to the suits at Paramount, he had to convince them that the whole "I am not Spock" thing wasn't going to be an issue moving forward. Kind of like somebody with a reputation for resigning and changing jobs trying to convince a prospective new employer at an interview why *this* time will be different, *this* time he's gonna stick around.

It's no hard to imagine Spock not coming back. They didn't need Xon. That's what Saavik and David were there for: the Next Generation, literally.

Absolutely. In fact, word is that they were a contingency plan just in case Shatner decided to bail on the franchise as well (but that became less likely as production progressed).

 

[Maurice]

...he would be happy to bring Spock back to life, etc etc.

...I don't think he had to promise them he'd bring Spock back, just prove to them he didn't hate Star Trek.

Nah, that's what I said.

Not exactly, as per the bolded text.

 

[Therin of Andor]

As I remember it, the only reason Alley didn't come back was her agent asked for more money than they were wiling to pay.

Contractually, Paramount had to make a pay offer. Supposedly they offered less than she received for ST II, saying that "sequels usually make less money". Her agent counter-offered a purposely inflated sum (I heard it was close to Shatner's salary), fully expecting the counter-counter-offer to be a midway compromise, but there was never a counter-counter-offer. Contract fulfilled, Saavik was recast.

And Alley took up an offer to play a lead stage role ("Cat on a Hot Tin Roof", IIRC), at that time in her fledgling career a wise move.

As for Xon, he apparently became a Starfleet captain assigned to the Academy's Training Command. In 2285 (ST II), he was listed on a directory placard (2nd level, Room 213). The signage was auctioned off by "It's a Wrap!".

 

[Lance]

...he would be happy to bring Spock back to life, etc etc.

...I don't think he had to promise them he'd bring Spock back, just prove to them he didn't hate Star Trek.

Nah, that's what I said.

Not exactly, as per the bolded text.

Fair point.

 

[Nightowl1701]

So, with both Nimoy and Alley out of the picture and Meyer presumably still in the picture, Saavik's new face would have been, not Robin Curtis, but the woman Meyer wanted in the first place: Kim Cattrall.

I seem to recall at the time that Star Trek II was originally pitched as a TV movie (that would've aired on NBC) until Paramount saw how well it was coming together. Probably just spin, but given how much less the movie did compared to TMP and without Nimoy, it is quite likely Star Trek would've continued on as a series of TV-movies (as Perry Mason, The Six-Million Dollar Man and The Incredible Hulk did a few years later). And without Nimoy (or a humbled Shatner, for that matter) demanding ever-higher salaries due to now-nonexistent box-office success, TNG wouldn't have come about for several more years - if ever.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

It would have been Saavik. Pity, really, that Alley didn't have her turn. And no, Curtis was not a minimally acceptable replacement.

+1

Had Spock never returned, Saavik would've been best suited to replace him. Sulu might've gotten promoted to XO, somewhat overdue really.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

I wonder now, also, if Nimoy bowed out for whatever reason, and the new Star Trek wasn't any good, would Nimoy have been blamed for wrecking it?

Or, suppose Nimoy was the one who came to TMP set sporting a mustache?

 

[OpenMaw]

I seem to recall at the time that Star Trek II was originally pitched as a TV movie (that would've aired on NBC) until Paramount saw how well it was coming together. Probably just spin, but given how much less the movie did compared to TMP and without Nimoy, it is quite likely Star Trek would've continued on as a series of TV-movies

Can anyone verify that TWOK was going to be a TV production initially? I remember hearing one instance, in the midst of the confusion about TMP/Phase II what was going to happen with Trek, but I never knew that TWOK was intended to be a TV movie. That interests me greatly.

 

[BillJ]

I seem to recall at the time that Star Trek II was originally pitched as a TV movie (that would've aired on NBC) until Paramount saw how well it was coming together. Probably just spin, but given how much less the movie did compared to TMP and without Nimoy, it is quite likely Star Trek would've continued on as a series of TV-movies

Can anyone verify that TWOK was going to be a TV production initially? I remember hearing one instance, in the midst of the confusion about TMP/Phase II what was going to happen with Trek, but I never knew that TWOK was intended to be a TV movie. That interests me greatly.

Admittedly, I don't remember where I heard it but I thought that The Wrath of Khan was produced by Paramount's TV division.

Maurice or Harvey could probably give more clarity to the subject.

 

[BillJ]

I seem to recall at the time that Star Trek II was originally pitched as a TV movie (that would've aired on NBC) until Paramount saw how well it was coming together. Probably just spin, but given how much less the movie did compared to TMP and without Nimoy, it is quite likely Star Trek would've continued on as a series of TV-movies

Can anyone verify that TWOK was going to be a TV production initially? I remember hearing one instance, in the midst of the confusion about TMP/Phase II what was going to happen with Trek, but I never knew that TWOK was intended to be a TV movie. That interests me greatly.

Admittedly, I don't remember where I heard it but I thought that The Wrath of Khan was produced by Paramount's TV division.

Maurice or Harvey could probably give more clarity to the subject.

It comes from the book: Captains' Log: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages by Edward Gross and Mark Altman.

 

[Shon T'Hara]

So, with both Nimoy and Alley out of the picture and Meyer presumably still in the picture, Saavik's new face would have been, not Robin Curtis, but the woman Meyer wanted in the first place: Kim Cattrall.

If Nimoy had quit, Paramount might not have been so stingy with Alley.

The more interesting question is, what would've happened with David? I don't know when Merritt Butrick contracted HIV, so maybe if they'd gone him and Alley as the next generation, he might've dodged that bullet. But if not, he probably would've been too ill to go on by the time they got to Star Trek V. Would they have killed his character off screen, replaced him with a new actor, or written his character out in Star Trek IV?

 

[Shat Happens]

I can imagine quite a bit, but I can't imagine (viable) Star Trek without Spock.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Admittedly, I don't remember where I heard it but I thought that The Wrath of Khan was produced by Paramount's TV division.

Starlog reports regularly mentioned that ST II was to be produced by "the television arm" at Paramount, and many of the crew were people who'd worked with Harve Bennett on his previous TV productions. It was to be a TV movie, but released theatrically internationally, following the examples of "Battlestar Galactica", "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century", Spielberg's "Duel" and "Mission Galactica: The Cylon Attack".

Just before production began, though, ST II was promoted to feature film status.

 

[Maurice]

...I don't know when Merritt Butrick contracted HIV, so maybe if they'd gone him and Alley as the next generation, he might've dodged that bullet...

And likely not. Why even speculate?