Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan rewrite

[James Wright]

If there was a way to go back to 1982 or when ever the script was written for STII and rewite the scene where Khan meets Checkov and says that he never forgets a face, who would you replace Checkov with, Uhura or Sulu?

James

 

[Dukhat]

If there was a way to go back to 1982 or when ever the script was written for STII and rewite the scene where Khan meets Checkov and says that he never forgets a face, who would you replace Checkov with, Uhura or Sulu?

James

1. Is there a point to this, other than just curiosity? Because the scene worked just fine as it was.

2. If I absolutely had to choose between the two choices you've given, I'd choose Sulu, only because it would be a bit more morbid to have Uhura screaming while her ear is being invaded by a Ceti Eel.

 

[James Wright]

Well, was Checkov on the Enterprise during "Space Seed" or not?
No one has ever really been able to answer this question, only speculate.
Granted, it should be Sulu, the position of First Officer would help him achieve command of the Excelsior later on.

James

 

[Winterwind]

Well, was Checkov on the Enterprise during "Space Seed" or not?
No one has ever really been able to answer this question, only speculate.
Granted, it should be Sulu, the position of First Officer would help him achieve command of the Excelsior later on.

James

It has been answered. And there are two answers: Real world and in-universe.

The real world answer is that Walter Koenig didn't just the cast until the second season. But that's Walter Koenig, the actor.

Chekov was clearly on the Enterprise whether we saw him or not. Khan knew him. Khan never forgets a face. Chekov was there and that's good enough for me.

 

[James Wright]

Chekov was clearly on the Enterprise whether we saw him or not. Khan knew him. Khan never forgets a face. Chekov was there and that's good enough for me

Not trying to pick a fight, but you'll have to prove it to me, because even though Kirk allowed Khan access to technical manuals and Khan had access to some parts of the ship, he wasn't allowed into vital areas of the ship.(That is if Kirk knew who he was dealing with.)

Since Checkov served as First Officer on the Reliant why wasn't he in line for promotion to Captain and command of the Excelsior?

James

 

[Winterwind]

I don't have to "prove" anything since the proof is in the movie. Khan says he knows Chekov from the Enterprise. That "proves" that. Doesn't matter whether we saw him in the episode or not.

Would you like proof that the ship's compliment was 430? We never saw 430 officers and crews so...

And no worries. I know you're not trying to pick a fight. I just never saw the point in giving the matter any more than a second's thought.

 

[Dukhat]

Since Checkov served as First Officer on the Reliant why wasn't he in line for promotion to Captain and command of the Excelsior?

What does one have to do with the other?

 

[Harvey]

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan was the only Star Trek movie where Walter Koenig had a major part; I wouldn't want to take that away from him for the sake of resolving a minor continuity error.

 

[Captain Nebula]

Walter Koenig was quoted as saying that Khan remembers Chekov because Chekov took too long in the bathroom and made Khan wait in line. Off camera, of course.



I'd put Sulu on the Reliant as First Officer. When did Sulu get a chance to be First Officer before he went on to Captain the Excelsior? Does the Enterprise crew get special treatment?

 

[7thsealord]

I'd put Sulu on the Reliant as First Officer. When did Sulu get a chance to be First Officer before he went on to Captain the Excelsior? Does the Enterprise crew get special treatment?

Note that, canonically speaking, we have absolutely no idea what Sulu and others were doing in the years between TMP and STII. Undoubtedly, various books purport to cover this period, most of which are certainly contradictory. Take your pick.

Also, in STII's space-pod approach scene, I recall Kirk apologizing to his team for "temporarily dragging them away from their other duties". Sulu, for one, expresses great enthusiasm for coming "back" to the Enterprise. Obvious inference being that they have been busy doing other things away from the Enterprise.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Chekov was clearly on the Enterprise whether we saw him or not. Khan knew him. Khan never forgets a face. Chekov was there and that's good enough for me

Not trying to pick a fight, but you'll have to prove it to me, because even though Kirk allowed Khan access to technical manuals and Khan had access to some parts of the ship, he wasn't allowed into vital areas of the ship.(That is if Kirk knew who he was dealing with.)

Since Checkov served as First Officer on the Reliant why wasn't he in line for promotion to Captain and command of the Excelsior?

James

Whats the connection between where Khan could go on the ship and his knowing Chekov? Why would Chekov only be in the ship's vital areas?

Who's to say Chekov wasn't on the list of possible Commanders for the Excelsior?

 

[James Wright]

I don't have to "prove" anything since the proof is in the movie. Khan says he knows Chekov from the Enterprise. That "proves" that. Doesn't matter whether we saw him in the episode or not.

Would you like proof that the ship's compliment was 430? We never saw 430 officers and crews so...

And no worries. I know you're not trying to pick a fight. I just never saw the point in giving the matter any more than a second's thought.

Nope, don't need proof that the crew is 430, that was established in "Day of the Dove".

James

 

[Therin of Andor]

Well, was Checkov on the Enterprise during "Space Seed" or not?
No one has ever really been able to answer this question, only speculate.

Koenig realised if he pointed out that Chekov perhaps never met Khan, the director might switch his meaty part in the movie with Sulu/Takei. Interestingly, Sulu never met Khan either; at least, his character is not seen in "Space Seed". Takei almost didn't sign for ST II, holding out till one day before principal photography, only supposedly signing when Harve Bennett promised to add a line from Kirk promoting Sulu to captain of Excelsior.

Perhaps they should have given the who-met-Khan part to John Winston, who is Lt Kyle in both "Space Seed" and ST II, and was held up at phaser point by Marla in the TV episode.

Vonda McIntyre's novelization gives Chekov a flashback friendship with Marla McGivers, and Greg Cox uses this scene to further develop the friendship in his third Khan novel.

As for Sulu's supposed lack of command experience, it has been speculated that Sulu was Willard Decker's executive officer in the lead-up to the Vejur encounter. Had "Phase II" gone beyond 13 episodes, and Kirk had been promoted to Admiral Guest Star, Decker would have become a captain looking for an exec. (Xon was not intended to take that position.) Sulu would be an obvious choice.

 

[Captain Nebula]

Also, in STII's space-pod approach scene, I recall Kirk apologizing to his team for "temporarily dragging them away from their other duties". Sulu, for one, expresses great enthusiasm for coming "back" to the Enterprise. Obvious inference being that they have been busy doing other things away from the Enterprise.

I'd completely forgotten about that. Just went and looked through the novel for TWOK. In that scene, they talk about how Sulu was just promoted to Captain and was going to take command of the Excelsior 'at the end of the month'.

Of course he's only a Commander in the movie.

In the novel for Star Trek III, Admiral Morrow puts his takeover of command of the Excelsior on hold when they get back to SpaceDock because of the Genesis incident.

 

[Winterwind]

I don't have to "prove" anything since the proof is in the movie. Khan says he knows Chekov from the Enterprise. That "proves" that. Doesn't matter whether we saw him in the episode or not.

Would you like proof that the ship's compliment was 430? We never saw 430 officers and crews so...

And no worries. I know you're not trying to pick a fight. I just never saw the point in giving the matter any more than a second's thought.

Nope, don't need proof that the crew is 430, that was established in "Day of the Dove".

James

Really? Did you see them all parade across the screen and count them one at a time? Because it was established in TWOK that Chekov was on the Enterprise when they found Khan. The proof is the same. Funny how you can accept one proof and not the other.

 

[BillJ]

I don't have to "prove" anything since the proof is in the movie. Khan says he knows Chekov from the Enterprise. That "proves" that. Doesn't matter whether we saw him in the episode or not.

Would you like proof that the ship's compliment was 430? We never saw 430 officers and crews so...

And no worries. I know you're not trying to pick a fight. I just never saw the point in giving the matter any more than a second's thought.

Nope, don't need proof that the crew is 430, that was established in "Day of the Dove".

James

And Chekov being on the Enterprise is established by the fact that Khan knows him.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Well, was Checkov on the Enterprise during "Space Seed" or not?
No one has ever really been able to answer this question, only speculate.
Granted, it should be Sulu, the position of First Officer would help him achieve command of the Excelsior later on.

James

It has been answered. And there are two answers: Real world and in-universe.

The real world answer is that Walter Koenig didn't just the cast until the second season. But that's Walter Koenig, the actor.

Chekov was clearly on the Enterprise whether we saw him or not. Khan knew him. Khan never forgets a face. Chekov was there and that's good enough for me.

This.

I've never had a problem with the scene. It's not like in SS, we saw an d heard Khan read out every single name on the ship and there was no Chekov. I don't see why Chekov couldn't have been on the ship, eve if he wasn't a regular on the bridge crew by then.

I mean, we never heard Chief O'Brien's name until well into TNG's run but I assume that he still had a name during that time!

 

[inflatabledalek]

Yeah, it's a bit of a retcon but such a small and easy one to explain one it's perfectly benign. It's not even the biggest retcon in the whole film. It's not even as hard to reconcile as little astronaut guy doing his merry wave again as the Enterprise pulls out of Spacedock.

I can buy that three Klingon ships flying across the screen will look the same as another three, or that the Enterprise pulling out of dock won't vary that much from time to time, but either he goes out of his way to do that exact same wave to every single ship or it never happened in TMP. Even if you think you saw it. *Insert Twilight Zone theme*.

 

[BillJ]

Since Checkov served as First Officer on the Reliant why wasn't he in line for promotion to Captain and command of the Excelsior?

James

Why would being XO of the Reliant put one in line to command the first in a new breed of starship with experimental technology? That's a massive leap.

I figured Sulu was already working on the Excelsior and came aboard for a training cruise as a favor to Kirk. Then the Genesis affair popped up and knocked him out of the running for command of that particular vessel at that time.

 

[James Wright]

I don't have to "prove" anything since the proof is in the movie. Khan says he knows Chekov from the Enterprise. That "proves" that. Doesn't matter whether we saw him in the episode or not.

Would you like proof that the ship's compliment was 430? We never saw 430 officers and crews so...

And no worries. I know you're not trying to pick a fight. I just never saw the point in giving the matter any more than a second's thought.

Nope, don't need proof that the crew is 430, that was established in "Day of the Dove".

James

Really? Did you see them all parade across the screen and count them one at a time? Because it was established in TWOK that Chekov was on the Enterprise when they found Khan. The proof is the same. Funny how you can accept one proof and not the other.

In "Day of the Dove" a line spoken by Scotty stated that 392 were trapped below deck or something close to that.
As to the question of Khan meeting Checkov during "Space Seed", I yield to the majority.

James