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Star Trek Haynes Manual Discussion?

Also, in the novelization of Relics, Scotty referred to the Enterprise as the fleet flagship. Either way, the Enterprise-A was retired so that the Enterprise-B could carry on the name, especially when the latter was launched within months or a year depending on your take.
 
Scotty never referred to the E-A as a "flagship" on screen. And on screen is what counts.

As for GR and RA forgetting about the Yorktown being referred to in TVH, I don't see that as a problem, since it establishes that the Yorktown was nearby and available. So, while she's in the repair dock, another item gets added to the to-do list: "Change name and registry to U.S.S. ENTERPRISE, NCC-1701-A".
 
As for GR and RA forgetting about the Yorktown being referred to in TVH, I don't see that as a problem, since it establishes that the Yorktown was nearby and available. So, while she's in the repair dock, another item gets added to the to-do list: "Change name and registry to U.S.S. ENTERPRISE, NCC-1701-A".

But it doesn't have to be the same ship. IIRC, we never get an external view of the ship crippled by the Probe, just see its captain describing how they plan to survive the (temporary) loss of power - and it could be, say, a new Excelsior-class Yorktown that was in the path of the Probe, with its old Constitution-class Yorktown predecessor being refitted back in drydock, just like the Enterprise had been prior to TMP.
 
^ Hey, I like that angle.

Maybe to spare Shane Johnson's feelings, we could say that Starfleet was going to rechristen the ship "Ti-Ho", but after the probe incident, that got changed to "Enterprise-A".
 
We really have no idea how much time passed between crashing the Bounty/release of George & Gracie and the trial... or how much time passed between the end of the trial and the crew being reassigned to the new Enterprise. I've always assumed it took weeks if not months to clean up enough to get around to court-martialing Kirk & his crew, and it could've been another span of days to weeks before they were taken to their new ship.

The account in the novel has it only in a matter of a few days. That isn't 'canon', I know, but the implication that there really wasn't much time at all in between the events. The trial and subsequent assignment seemed to be nearly back to back at any rate.

One little detail is that Kirk apparently hadn't had the chance to get a new uniform jacket,* since he was still wearing an admiral's jacket with the gold piping with his new captain's rank. So it probably wasn't that long. May even have been the same day.

*I'm trying to remember this, and it's going to bother me all day. What's the position of the guy on the ship who's in charge of the spare uniforms and supplies like that? It's on the tip of my tongue.
 
*I'm trying to remember this, and it's going to bother me all day. What's the position of the guy on the ship who's in charge of the spare uniforms and supplies like that? It's on the tip of my tongue.

Quartermaster? I know that in the "being in charge of supplies" context that's a land army term not a naval one, but I think they've used it before.
 
That was a case of the Army guys on the production staff outnumbering the Navy guys, thus "quartermaster" being used according to Army definition.
 
^ Hey, I like that angle.

Maybe to spare Shane Johnson's feelings, we could say that Starfleet was going to rechristen the ship "Ti-Ho", but after the probe incident, that got changed to "Enterprise-A".

Yes, it sounds nice especially coming from a hypocrite and since its not on screen, who cares.
 
^ What's the term in the Navy?

I forget the naval equivalent of an Army quartermaster, but a Navy quartermaster is the guy who assigns quarters.

Actually, in the US Navy, the job description for a Quartermaster is this:


Quartermasters (QMs) stand watch as assistants to officers of the deck and the navigator; serve as helmsman and perform ship control, navigation and bridge watch duties. QMs procure, correct, use and stow navigational and oceanographic publications and oceanographic charts. They maintain navigational instruments and keep correct navigational time; render "honors and ceremonies" in accordance with national observance and foreign customs; send and receive visual messages; and serve as petty officers in charge of tugs, self-propelled barges and other yard and district craft.
The duties performed by QMs include:
  • conduct weather observations;
  • determine compass and gyro error;
  • compute tide and tidal current data;
  • keep logs and records; determine their ship's position by visual and electronic means;
  • compute times of sunrise and sunset;
  • follow the nautical rules-of-the-road to prevent collisions at sea.
 
Noted.

Anyway, a Navy quartermaster is not the guy in charge of uniforms.

Nope, in the US Navy at least that person is a Storekeeper:


Storekeepers manage inventories of repair parts and general supplies that support ships, squadrons, and shore-based activities. They procure, receive, store and issue material and repair components. They utilize financial accounting and database systems to perform inventory and financial management functions.
The duties performed by SKs include:
  • ordering, stocking, and issuing repair parts, clothing and general supplies;
  • maintaining financial records and accounting systems;
  • maintaining inventory databases for material stocked in shore based warehouses and ship storerooms;
  • perform duties associated with hazardous material control and management;
  • organizing and maintaining databases, correspondence files, and reports;
  • maintaining logistics and financial publications and CD-ROM libraries.
 
In the interests of full disclosure, could anyone conjure up the definition of an Army quartermaster, so we could figure out where Roddenberry got the idea for the Starfleet version?
 
In the Army, a quartermaster acquires and distributes supplies and stores. They are guys and gals that give us soldiers food, uniforms, and our equipment. If you needed something replaced or more of, you go to them.
 
James Dixon is one of those individuals that gives overly-analytical fanboys a bad name. He's produced excruciatingly detailed chronologies and analyses of various projects, both official and fan produced, and seems to take it personally if folks don't hew to his particular viewpoint and/or conclusions, and can't seem to understand that those who actually produce Star Trek are under no obligation to even acknowledge his existence, never mind pay any sort of attention to his findings (he seemed particularly miffed that when I started my Enterprise deck plans, I specifically rejected the Franz Joseph plans from any sort of consideration).

In fact, he got so contentious with those who didn't agree with him that he eventually got his arrogant keister permabanned from TrekBBS, and probably a few other places as well.

He continues to serve as a cautionary tale to many of us, that there is a line you don't want to cross, lest one finds oneself in the "Get A Life!" club.

Is this the same guy who came up with that stardestroyer.net thing and used to razz people over in Trek Tech about what's canon and what's not in terms of ship size and tonnage, like the Million-Ton Enterprise debate? I can't even remember his user name, but it sounds like something that James Dixon would do.
 
It's never stated that it's a newly-constructed ship. It's a new ship to Scotty and the gang, and the faulty construction work it's been having could be the result of the ship's trashing by the Whale Probe.

So, in a period of a few days (literally), they dragged the Yorktown back, rebuilt all of her internal assemblies, put in a new engine (explicit), decommissioned or reassigned the entire crew (or cleaned up the bodies), re-allocated the ship as the Enterprise, AND were able to get Kirk on it despite not knowing if he would be exonerated at trial?

OR

Once Kirk was exonerated, they took a new ship and simply rechristened her the Enterprise rather than the Tai-Ho?

Sorry, but the Enterprise-A having been an uprated Yorktown does not make sense, and was nothing more than Roddenberry once again inserting himself into a production that he had nothing to do with otherwise. It was an 'homage' to himself and 'Star Trek Is...' and shouldn't be regarded as anything more than that.

Once the probe stopped doing what it was doing, plenty of power systems came back online all over the place. No reason to believe that things were any different with the Yorktown, so refurbishing was probably very straightforward.

Also, Starfleet seemed to be quite enamored with the new Excelsior class and was determined to phase out the older ships, so it's entirely possible that Yorktown was already scheduled for decommissioning in the near future, or possibly was already in the process but with the emergency, was pulled out of spacedock and sent out to meet the probe. So it's well within the realm of possibility that we're talking about a ship that was already on the decommission list and was given a few extra years of service life as the Enterprise-A.

Makes a helluva lot more sense than Starfleet deciding to decommission a relatively new ship (less than ten years old) right on the heels of Khitomer.

And remember, anything from TFF in between campfire scenes is just the product of Kirk and McCoy trying to tell Spock a ghost story, with the help of several helpings of McCoy's "secret ingredient" and therefore easily discountable.

On the Yorktown thing, I've seen nothing to indicate a contradiction between "A" being a rechristened Yorktown, and it being a brand-new ship, fresh out of the shipyard, and indeed, my understanding was that both were true, with the Yorktown simply being the next Constitution-class vessel in line for launching.

The USS Yorktown (NCC-1717) is explicitly one of the ships hit by the whale probe in the movie. Moreover, the NCC-1717 can be very briefly seen on the tail end of one of the ships during the Enterprise-A reveal.

Um, no. An unidentified Constitution refit is partially seen, the registry is never visible.

As for GR and RA forgetting about the Yorktown being referred to in TVH, I don't see that as a problem, since it establishes that the Yorktown was nearby and available. So, while she's in the repair dock, another item gets added to the to-do list: "Change name and registry to U.S.S. ENTERPRISE, NCC-1701-A".

But it doesn't have to be the same ship. IIRC, we never get an external view of the ship crippled by the Probe, just see its captain describing how they plan to survive the (temporary) loss of power - and it could be, say, a new Excelsior-class Yorktown that was in the path of the Probe, with its old Constitution-class Yorktown predecessor being refitted back in drydock, just like the Enterprise had been prior to TMP.

(Pardon me for going slightly overboard with the multiquotes here, but I wanted to bring these specific posts together for this discussion)

In regards to go through all of the refitting of Yorktown (assuming the E-A is the old Yorktown) while not knowing if Kirk, et al would be exonerated at trial, my thoughts are that they had determined his innocence well in advance (folks, never underestimate the power of extenuating circumstances, especially in the face of outstanding success...) and were waiting for the E-A to be readied for departure so that in a big public-relations glitz they could "exonerate" Kirk and hand him the keys.

On a slightly-related note, in "Mr. Scott's Guide", reference was made to the new ship originally being called the USS Ti-Ho. "Ti-Ho" isn't any name I'm familiar with in regard to historical ships, so I believe what Shane Johnson was in all likelihood referring to was the WW2 Japanese carrier Taiho and someone just flubbed on the spelling.

(...unless one of you writers retcons it into being named after, say, the glorious victory of the nascent Federation over the Romulans at the 2159 Battle of Ti-Ho or something, during which there were many Romulan ships destroyed and much beer drank, etc....)

That's an interesting theory about the Yorktown in TVH being a new Excelsior-class. However, there were only a few months between TSFS and TVH, during which it's difficult to envision Starfleet building any more Excelsior-class ships until they've had some time to iron out the bugs in the prototype...remember, it did go tits-up in TSFS, and though Scotty confessed to taking some computer chips out of it, the fact that he was able to do so and the ship's computer still determined it was transwarp-ready might give the Excelsior designers pause. IIRC from the TNG Tech Manual, the USS Galaxy predates the Yamato and Enterprise by a few years, during which extensive shakedowns would occur to insure that building additional Galaxy-class ships wouldn't be a dry hole. Despite BBS discussions about money in the 23rd century and how quickly ships can be built, I wouldn't think Starfleet would sink resources into building additional Excelsiors until they've had time to shakedown and evaluate (and improve) the original Excelsior.

And though a revamped Yorktown would be new to Scotty, he's still one of Starfleet's most experienced engineers. If he's having difficulties with it in TVH, then rational explanations range from (1) it's the old Yorktown and the systems were so profoundly affected by the Probe that gremlins still existed in the system well after the fact and needed to be tracked down to (2) it's a brand-new ship a la the Ti-Ho description and there's enough new stuff in there that he's not quite up to speed with that it throws him off a little as described in his log entries.

As far as the Yorktown name itself goes, I am thinking that the original Yorktown (NCC-1717) might have been destroyed or decommissioned prior to the events of TVH, whether it went through the refit process or not, and that the name Yorktown was slated to be given to the brand-spanking-new Constitution-refit coming off the assembly line. As the Excelsior-class was not fully tested as of yet, it stands to reason that additional Con-refits would be constructed at least until such time as the Excelsior proved itself to be a good and valid design (which, by TNG times, we knew it did), especially if there were still Constitution-refit parts laying about and already paid for. As big as Starfleet appears to be on naming their big ships after historical warships of the 20th century, I don't really see them taking the Yorktown name away from a commissioned, long-serving (40+ years, if indeed it is a refitted 1717) ship-of-the-line, merely to supplant it with Enterprise-A...especially when an Excelsior-class Enterprise-B is just a few years down the road, probably already in the planning stages.

I offer you two competing theories...the Yorktown as seen briefly in TVH is either (1) the old 1717 refitted and still serving even after TVH, with some other ship (Taiho) being renamed Enterprise-A but not the Yorktown herself or (2) the new Con-refit renamed Enterprise-A was indeed the "Yorktown" and was constructed as such with the intention of joining the fleet as Yorktown, was launched prematurely in the face of the Probe approaching Earth, where it was damaged, towed back to SpaceDock and given a name change...since it was not actually commissioned as Yorktown, merely built under that name, the name could be given to another ship and the Enterprise-A decals slapped down.
 
Am I the only one to notice that the little cutaway of the Enterprise-D looked like it had a round saucer instead of an oval one?
 
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