Star Trek Haynes Manual Discussion?

[Daddy Todd]

So, in a period of a few days (literally), they dragged the Yorktown back, rebuilt all of her internal assemblies, put in a new engine (explicit), decommissioned or reassigned the entire crew (or cleaned up the bodies), re-allocated the ship as the Enterprise, AND were able to get Kirk on it despite not knowing if he would be exonerated at trial?

We really have no idea how much time passed between crashing the Bounty/release of George & Gracie and the trial... or how much time passed between the end of the trial and the crew being reassigned to the new Enterprise. I've always assumed it took weeks if not months to clean up enough to get around to court-martialing Kirk & his crew, and it could've been another span of days to weeks before they were taken to their new ship.

There's any number of reasons why the idea that the Enterprise-A is a rechristened Yorktown is a bad one. But time isn't one of them.

 

[Vance]

We really have no idea how much time passed between crashing the Bounty/release of George & Gracie and the trial... or how much time passed between the end of the trial and the crew being reassigned to the new Enterprise. I've always assumed it took weeks if not months to clean up enough to get around to court-martialing Kirk & his crew, and it could've been another span of days to weeks before they were taken to their new ship.

The account in the novel has it only in a matter of a few days. That isn't 'canon', I know, but the implication that there really wasn't much time at all in between the events. The trial and subsequent assignment seemed to be nearly back to back at any rate.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Isn't the whole reason Gene wanted the Enterprise-A to be the renamed Yorktown a reference to his first Trek outline, starring Captain Winter on the USS Yorktown?

 

[Daddy Todd]

Isn't the whole reason Gene wanted the Enterprise-A to be the renamed Yorktown a reference to his first Trek outline, starring Captain Winter on the USS Yorktown?

By the time Star Trek IV rolled around, what Gene wanted meant less than nothing to those in charge of the films. Gene didn't want Sybok to be Spock's brother, and look how seriously they took that bit of wisdom.

In any event, nothing in the film hints that the Enterprise-A is anything but a brand-new, fresh-off-the-assembly-line starship.

However, it's not impossible that whoever decided the E-A was formerly the Yorktown was making a clever reference to that bit of Trek history. But I'll lay odds it wasn't Roddenberry who made that call.

 

[Christopher]

However, it's not impossible that whoever decided the E-A was formerly the Yorktown was making a clever reference to that bit of Trek history. But I'll lay odds it wasn't Roddenberry who made that call.

Well, nobody "made that call." It's not canonical fact. Officially, the E-A is just the E-A, its origins unexplained. The idea that it was formerly the Yorktown is just a suggestion which did indeed come from Roddenberry. That was his conjectural explanation for what the film showed, and fandom listened because it came from Roddenberry. But it's just a conjecture.

 

[ProwlAlpha]

Since, I enjoy the books as well. The Yorktown was stolen by Scotty in 2370. The Enterprise-A was given to Chal and destroyed in Chal's sun.

Besides, the length of service has nothing to do whether a ship deserves to be decommissioned or stay in service. Its all about needs and if Starfleet felt that the Enterprise-A be retired so that the Enterprise-B, a bigger more advanced starship, carry on the name so be it. As in Starfleet needed the Enterprise to be the forefront as the Federation's best. They did it for the Enterprise-D and the Enterprise-E. Various world navies have done it many times.

 

[Christopher]

Its all about needs and if Starfleet felt that the Enterprise-A be retired so that the Enterprise-B, a bigger more advanced starship, carry on the name so be it.

If it was just about the name (for whatever bizarre reason), then why not just rename the E-A instead of decommissioning it?

As in Starfleet needed the Enterprise to be the forefront as the Federation's best. They did it for the Enterprise-D and the Enterprise-E. Various world navies have done it many times.

Even granting the notion of the Enterprise being the "flagship" in terms of prestige and glamour (instead of the legitimate sense of the word as the ship on which an admiral is based or the lead ship of a task force), I hardly think that would be seen as a fundamental requirement that their best ship would need to have that name -- let alone that any prior ship having that name would have to be promptly discarded just because a new one comes along. That's egregiously wasteful thinking, like the old rich-person gag, "I need to buy a new car, this one is dirty."

Really, it's fanboyish thinking to assume that the flagship would have to be called Enterprise. That name holds special meaning to us viewers because it's the name of the ships on which the first two series focused, but that doesn't mean that people in-universe are disproportionally fixated on that one ship to the same degree. Whatever great deeds the Enterprises have achieved, they can't be the only ships that have ever done anything of note. And I can't believe Starfleet would be so shallow as to base its fleet construction and deployment policies on that kind of rock-star adulation for a specific ship, let alone a ship name.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Wouldn't Stafleet technically have another starship designated as it's flagship during the construction of the Enterprise-A in the first place?

 

[Vance]

Wouldn't Stafleet technically have another starship designated as it's flagship during the construction of the Enterprise-A in the first place?

While the NuEnterprise and Enterprise-D were explicitly stated to be the 'flagships' of the fleet, the original girl never was. In fact, we know that the original Enterprise couldn't have been since we see flag officers on other ships, like the Constellation and Farragut.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

On the Yorktown thing, I've seen nothing to indicate a contradiction between "A" being a rechristened Yorktown, and it being a brand-new ship, fresh out of the shipyard, and indeed, my understanding was that both were true, with the Yorktown simply being the next Constitution-class vessel in line for launching.

As to the Haynes Manual, I had a look at one last night. Certainly no worse than the works of F. J. Schnaubelt, or the published TNG Tech. Manual, or the TNG Writers' Tech. Manual. And certainly far better than the personally-deprecated-by-Doohan-himself "Mr. Scott's Guide."

 

[FredH]

And certainly far better than the personally-deprecated-by-Doohan-himself "Mr. Scott's Guide."

Now I'm curious: What's the story here?

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

My understanding is that in addition to being officially-deprecated-with-extreme-prejudice by Paramount and by the producers, the book probably left the late Mr. Doohan feeling justifiably slighted that his character's name had been attached to it without so much as a how-do-you-do.

 

[Vance]

On the Yorktown thing, I've seen nothing to indicate a contradiction between "A" being a rechristened Yorktown, and it being a brand-new ship, fresh out of the shipyard, and indeed, my understanding was that both were true, with the Yorktown simply being the next Constitution-class vessel in line for launching.

The USS Yorktown (NCC-1717) is explicitly one of the ships hit by the whale probe in the movie. Moreover, the NCC-1717 can be very briefly seen on the tail end of one of the ships during the Enterprise-A reveal.

 

[DaveyNY]

Gees....

I guess I'm not the Trek Purist I thought I was.... I like the Haynes Manual.
(though it is, pricey)

But then..., I wasn't expecting something grand and glorious to begin with.

Oh well...

 

[Captain Robert April]

On the Yorktown thing, I've seen nothing to indicate a contradiction between "A" being a rechristened Yorktown, and it being a brand-new ship, fresh out of the shipyard, and indeed, my understanding was that both were true, with the Yorktown simply being the next Constitution-class vessel in line for launching.

The USS Yorktown (NCC-1717) is explicitly one of the ships hit by the whale probe in the movie. Moreover, the NCC-1717 can be very briefly seen on the tail end of one of the ships during the Enterprise-A reveal.

Um, no. An unidentified Constitution refit is partially seen, the registry is never visible.

 

[Captain Robert April]

However, it's not impossible that whoever decided the E-A was formerly the Yorktown was making a clever reference to that bit of Trek history. But I'll lay odds it wasn't Roddenberry who made that call.

Well, nobody "made that call." It's not canonical fact. Officially, the E-A is just the E-A, its origins unexplained. The idea that it was formerly the Yorktown is just a suggestion which did indeed come from Roddenberry. That was his conjectural explanation for what the film showed, and fandom listened because it came from Roddenberry. But it's just a conjecture.

Conjecture that was included in the TNG TM, which means it came from Roddenberry and was passed on to Okuda and Sternbach, thus giving it a bit more weight than standard grade fanon.

 

[Daddy Todd]

However, it's not impossible that whoever decided the E-A was formerly the Yorktown was making a clever reference to that bit of Trek history. But I'll lay odds it wasn't Roddenberry who made that call.

Well, nobody "made that call." It's not canonical fact. Officially, the E-A is just the E-A, its origins unexplained. The idea that it was formerly the Yorktown is just a suggestion which did indeed come from Roddenberry. That was his conjectural explanation for what the film showed, and fandom listened because it came from Roddenberry. But it's just a conjecture.

I never knew it came from The Great Bird. Do you have a reference for that? I was under the impression that it just turned up in some licensed source.

 

[Christopher]

Memory Alpha's article on the E-A says the Yorktown suggestion is "According to Gene Roddenberry."

 

[F. King Daniel]

My understanding is that in addition to being officially-deprecated-with-extreme-prejudice by Paramount and by the producers, the book probably left the late Mr. Doohan feeling justifiably slighted that his character's name had been attached to it without so much as a how-do-you-do.

"Probably"?

 

[Therin of Andor]

I never knew it came from The Great Bird. Do you have a reference for that? I was under the impression that it just turned up in some licensed source.

I know it was part of Richard Arnold's regular convention patter, and would have also been part of his explanatory column in the Official ST Fan Club Magazine, "The Communicator".

IIRC, Arnold (and GR) really disliked Shane Johnson's "Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise", but there was little time to make the many changes requested. They felt too much had been "made up". The renaming of "Yorktown" was part of their reaction to the seemingly random USS Ti-Ho, a creation of Shane Johnson, although when the GR suggestion was made (via RA), everyone had forgotten the brief reference to a Probe-affected Yorktown at the beginning of ST IV.