Star Trek Generations at 20 (November 18, 1994)

[cooleddie74]

Sybok is a more three-dimensional and sympathetic villain than Tolian Soran, and that's pretty sad considering that Malcolm McDowell was given a character with the potential to be a whole lot more interesting than the final product and leaving a few little things in the film could have turned Soran from a giant missed opportunity into a truly great and memorable Star Trek villain, one that the audience could sympathize with yet still hate at the same time for the carnage and destruction he wanted to unleash on innocent people.

Alas, we'll never know, but Soran as a concept held more promise than most Trek villains, yet they didn't bother to take advantage of what both the character outline and the skills of Malcolm McDowell gave them to work with.

 

[Commishsleer]

Sybok is a more three-dimensional and sympathetic villain than Tolian Soran, and that's pretty sad considering that Malcolm McDowell was given a character with the potential to be a whole lot more interesting than the final product and leaving a few little things in the film could have turned Soran from a giant missed opportunity into a truly great and memorable Star Trek villain, one that the audience could sympathize with yet still hate at the same time for the carnage and destruction he wanted to unleash on innocent people.

Alas, we'll never know, but Soran as a concept held more promise than most Trek villains, yet they didn't bother to take advantage of what both the character outline and the skills of Malcolm McDowell gave them to work with.

Well Sybok is the least villainous villain in any Trek movie. He didn't kill anyone or even really threaten to kill anyone.

I really didn't have sympathy for Soran. He just seemed a selfish guy who was willing to kill 230 million people for a fake wife and family.If he wanted to go back in time in the Nexus and save his planet from the Borg or something then I would have had more time for him.
Still Malcolm McDowell has a heap of charisma.

 

[DWF]

The destruction of the Enterprise was supposed to been the season six cliffhanger was but would've been too costly at the time to pull off. Bringing Kirk and Picard together was in fact Patrick Stewart's idea as was the deaths of Renee and Robert Picard.

Generations featured some big events and to me at least didn't feel like a big TV episode. Kirk died making a difference And while the use of TV sets helped keep the cost of the movie down, it seemed like after Generations, Paramount turned the Star Trek film franchise into a "B" movie franchise.

 

[cooleddie74]

Generations and First Contact never felt like glorified two-part TV episodes shot with a feature film budget. Insurrection and Nemesis did, and that feeling of watching an overblown two-part television episode played out on the big screen without a whole lot to let you know it was a major motion picture event except for the ticket price, running time and upscaled space and battle effects.

 

[Smellmet]

The only part of Generations that came off cheap was the end on top of the mountain. Bit of an anti-climax after the saucer crash for me, watching three old men have a fight on a poxy little bridge, other than that I rank it as having the most 'big screen' feel to it of the TNG movies. First Contact had some good scenes - the opening battle was good in it's day, and so was the spacewalk, but I thought the earth scenes looked like cheap made for TV sets, which is a criticism I can level at most of Insurrection, which is the worst offender in my book. Nemesis had a couple of chunky looking sets on the Scimitar, but it's vastly superior visual effects carried the movie over it's predecessor. Insurrections FX were barely better than the series it was based on.

 

[bolak]

Watched it once in the cinema, never had an interest in seeing it again.

A tech-Trekkie friend and I exchanged letters ( real letters in those days! ) which amounted to about half-a-dozen hand-written pages of inconsistencies and plot holes.

But it was more the story that put me off; killing Kirk and the E-D all for.. nothing.

And turning Data into some sort of swear-o-bot for cheap 'laughs'; no, wait, I'd better stop thinking about this film for at least another 20 years.

 

[Lance]

The only part of Generations that came off cheap was the end on top of the mountain. Bit of an anti-climax after the saucer crash for me, watching three old men have a fight on a poxy little bridge, other than that I rank it as having the most 'big screen' feel to it of the TNG movies. First Contact had some good scenes - the opening battle was good in it's day, and so was the spacewalk, but I thought the earth scenes looked like cheap made for TV sets, which is a criticism I can level at most of Insurrection, which is the worst offender in my book. Nemesis had a couple of chunky looking sets on the Scimitar, but it's vastly superior visual effects carried the movie over it's predecessor. Insurrections FX were barely better than the series it was based on.

The thing which gets me Insurrection is that it looks the cheapest, and yet it had one of the largest budgets of the TNG movies. Certainly a larger budget than either Gens or First Contact.

I remember them making such a virtue of all the location shooting because they had the money to go out and do it, but the fact is that you just can't see the money on the screen. The Baku village sets look cheap, and the location, although beautiful, comes across as quite generic.

I guess the Valley of Fire in Generations looks kinda generic too, but at least it looks like a truly desolate, alien place. I thought it was fine, quite a dramatic location. And Alonzo's photography makes it cinematic.

 

[Commishsleer]

The only part of Generations that came off cheap was the end on top of the mountain. Bit of an anti-climax after the saucer crash for me, watching three old men have a fight on a poxy little bridge, other than that I rank it as having the most 'big screen' feel to it of the TNG movies. First Contact had some good scenes - the opening battle was good in it's day, and so was the spacewalk, but I thought the earth scenes looked like cheap made for TV sets, which is a criticism I can level at most of Insurrection, which is the worst offender in my book. Nemesis had a couple of chunky looking sets on the Scimitar, but it's vastly superior visual effects carried the movie over it's predecessor. Insurrections FX were barely better than the series it was based on.

The thing which gets me Insurrection is that it looks the cheapest, and yet it had one of the largest budgets of the TNG movies. Certainly a larger budget than either Gens or First Contact.

I remember them making such a virtue of all the location shooting because they had the money to go out and do it, but the fact is that you just can't see the money on the screen. The Baku village sets look cheap, and the location, although beautiful, comes across as quite generic.

I guess the Valley of Fire in Generations looks kinda generic too, but at least it looks like a truly desolate, alien place. I thought it was fine, quite a dramatic location. And Alonzo's photography makes it cinematic.

Wasn't a large percentage of NEM's budget spent on the salary of its two top stars?

 

[Smellmet]

Veridian III looked nice I'll give you that - it was more the scale and execution of the ending that I had a problem with.

Insurrection never once gave you the feeling that it was in any way an alien planet.

 

[EnriqueH]

Time is the fire in which we burn.

One of the best delivered and thought-provoking lines spoken in the entire franchise.

I'm telling you: Generations had the potential to be a much stronger film since it has, if you'll pardon the pun, echoes of greatness throughout.

Too bad it didn't quite come together as a whole.

 

[Smellmet]

Couldn't agree more. Everything up to the Nexus I think is right up there with any Trek movie - it's full of intrigue, spectacle and enough action/adventure to satisfy.

Massive missed opportunity IMO.

 

[Khan 2.0]

wonder what else couldve been done once Picard enters the nexus?

actually i don't have a problem with the Xmas scene as i think it works well. Going from the planet to the Xmas scene, picards ultimate desire and the deduction of what happened via the baubles give it an eerie twilight zone feel. Ok guinan appearing isnt too good but i guess she has to as it ties in with their prev scene and he has to get to kirk. Also PS mustve had some input into that scene with his love for Xmas Carol, plus its nice to have an Xmas scene in a trek film to bring out at xmas!

however kirks nexus wasn't great. Its like we get the build up to the anticipated Picard meets kirk scene and its the log cabin. better to have had it on the Ent A bridge with kirk in his standard uniform (besides wasn't it kirks ultimate desire to be back in the chair? kind of the opposite to Picard) then have them argue/debate around the ship and at some point we see the Ent A in space again, and maybe instead of the horse scene they appear in Kirks apartment from Trek II & III (no horses, Picard meets kirk not shatner!) & maybe even other certain Original Trek movie moments recreated (except with Kirk and Picard in them like something out of Christmas Carol) all of which wouldve allowed for Picard to be in original series movie environments like one would expect to see if Picard is in kirks nexus

then when they go back to defeat soran kirk somehow ends up on the Ent D sacrificing himself to save the ship? (or maybe not even kill Kirk! It probably have been more of a shock for audiences if he hadnt died)

 

[Lance]

Couldn't agree more. Everything up to the Nexus I think is right up there with any Trek movie - it's full of intrigue, spectacle and enough action/adventure to satisfy.

Massive missed opportunity IMO.

Absolutely. Like I said before, fundamentally I've got no problems with the movie whatsoever, right up to the point where Picard enters the Nexus and meets Kirk. That's the moment when the movie takes a sudden nose-dive in overall quality.

On a slightly different tangent, the Generations videogame actually provided an alternative ending: if you manage to track down Soran's location before he gets to Veridian III, you can take on his ship in combat. Win the battle, and you get a completely different ending that circumvents both Kirk's involvement in the story, as well as ending with the Enterprise-D flying off to starbase. So, basically overwriting the two most contentious aspects of the movie!

 

[Smellmet]

wonder what else couldve been done once Picard enters the nexus?

actually i don't have a problem with the Xmas scene as i think it works well. Going from the planet to the Xmas scene, picards ultimate desire and the deduction of what happened via the baubles give it an eerie twilight zone feel. Ok guinan appearing isnt too good but i guess she has to as it ties in with their prev scene and he has to get to kirk. Also PS mustve had some input into that scene with his love for Xmas Carol, plus its nice to have an Xmas scene in a trek film to bring out at xmas!

however kirks nexus wasn't great. Its like we get the build up to the anticipated Picard meets kirk scene and its the log cabin. better to have had it on the Ent A bridge with kirk in his standard uniform (besides wasn't it kirks ultimate desire to be back in the chair? kind of the opposite to Picard) then have them argue/debate around the ship and at some point we see the Ent A in space again, and maybe instead of the horse scene they appear in Kirks apartment from Trek II & III (no horses, Picard meets kirk not shatner!) & maybe even other certain Original Trek movie moments recreated (except with Kirk and Picard in them like something out of Christmas Carol) all of which wouldve allowed for Picard to be in original series movie environments like one would expect to see if Picard is in kirks nexus

then when they go back to defeat soran kirk somehow ends up on the Ent D sacrificing himself to save the ship? (or maybe not even kill Kirk! It probably have been more of a shock for audiences if he hadnt died)

The Xmas scene is filmed nicely, granted, (as is the rest of the movie) and I totally get the Twilight Zone reference - I kinda liked that, but as Lance just said that's the point the film nosedives into stupidity for me. It is effectively getting towards the climax of the film and we've got these family/wood chopping etc scenes that just slow the pace down to 'WTF?' levels.

My beef is the inclusion of this 'Nexus' at all, I've got no problem with temporal anomalies and the like that can be gateways to other parts/times of the galaxy, but one that places you in your own fantasies that you can just exit by just saying/thinking it? And people complain about Red Matter? It was just too far a swing into magic/fairytale territory and left so many questions and plot holes in it's wake that I still cannot reconcile with it, in fact, I just bought it and enjoyed the ride 20 years ago, I didn't really give a shit because hey! Kirk and Picard get to meet! Now I could happily eject the DVD the second they enter the ribbon. Like I said it's such a shame because it's a really good movie up to that point.

Now I just wish if Kirk had to be in the 24th century, he could have just been propelled further forward into time somehow without this convoluted mess of a plot device. Just about anything would have been better than this tripe.

It's just poor writing, full stop, I've been talking about Kirk's return in ST3 over in the XI forum, I can't believe some people want a return to this nonsense for the next movie.

 

[EnriqueH]

Kirk's Nexus felt tacked on.

If you're going to involve TOS and TNG, you might as well go all the way. Something along the lines of the novel Federation would;ve been perfect.

With TOS and TNG characters involved, it might've been cooler to have simultaneous storylines with the baton clearly passed to TNG by the end.

Kirk's death was impactful simply because we actually see him die, but it could've and SHOULD've been much better realized and executed.

What a wasted opportunity.

 

[johnjm22]

I saw it in the theater when it came out. I was VERY excited, but it left me underwhelmed. I didn't hate it, I was just lukewarm to it.

Honestly, I can't remember much specifics about the film, and I think that demonstrates part of the problem with it. It was just a forgettable movie; it didn't evoke much emotion from me.

I did like the fact that the action aspects felt less forced than they did in the TNG movies to come.

As for Kirk's death, if you're not going to kill him off well, then don't kill him at all. Spock's "death" in TWOK was an amazing scene. Very emotional and gripping. If Kirk's death sequence couldn't reach the same emotional heights, than it shouldn't have been done at all, and something just didn't feel right about having him die in a TNG movie. I would have rather seen him die in TUC.

 

[cooleddie74]

It was kind of nice seeing Picard in action before the Beebs and the studio wanted him to become Rambo with a phaser rifle. Not that I didn't mind some of the grittier action scenes involving Patrick Stewart over the next three films, but most of it seemed forced and after 178 television episodes and then Generations it just seemed like a different Picard created specificially for more action-demanding and -oriented big screen audiences.

 

[Smellmet]

As for Kirk's death, if you're not going to kill him off well, then don't kill him at all. Spock's "death" in TWOK was an amazing scene. Very emotional and gripping. If Kirk's death sequence couldn't reach the same emotional heights, than it shouldn't have been done at all, and something just didn't feel right about having him die in a TNG movie. I would have rather seen him die in TUC.

Absolutely - Kirk is the number one character in the entire franchise, and his death was pretty pathetic by any standard. I felt a damn sight more emotion with Data's death, and that's saying something.

If he was going to die at all, you're right, it should have been at the end of The Undiscovered Country, and even then, I wouldn't have preferred that to the nice ending for the TOS crew we got.

 

[cooleddie74]

I remember when some fans thought Kirk would indeed be killed in Star Trek VI based on the alternate clip used in an early trailer of Martia-Kirk being hit and vaporized by the disruptor beam.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=638S8n2_Ab8[/yt]

 

[JonnyQuest037]

These posts are reminding me of a thing that really pissed me off about Generations when I first saw it in the theater: The filmmakers obviously expected me to care more about Data finding his damn cat than Captain Kirk dying.

Really, how clueless can you get?