Same. Unless they do something too disgusting. I'm hard to chase away once I become a fan of something, but babies being fed to dogs kind of disturbs my feng shui.
Star Trek Discovery Renewed For Season 3
- Thread starter PixelMagic
- Start date
Reaching 100 episodes for syndication is a lot less important than it was in 2004. Now it's all about creating shows the people want to binge. If syndication was the goal, Discovery wouldn't be as serialized as it is.
I for one, am happy Discovery is getting a third season. And I'm looking forward to what Michelle Paradise contributes later in this season.
That said, I think a key question is if Discovery ends up with a fourth season. By the time Season three is over, CBS All Access will have the Picard show, Lower Decks, and be able to begin production of the MU Georgiou show if they so desire. Given all of that, the Trek brand won't be relying upon Discovery in the same way - and might make a change if those shows end up haviing higher viewership. I could see them deciding to spin off several of the characters onto an entirely new show, and hanging up its spurs.
That said, I think a key question is if Discovery ends up with a fourth season. By the time Season three is over, CBS All Access will have the Picard show, Lower Decks, and be able to begin production of the MU Georgiou show if they so desire. Given all of that, the Trek brand won't be relying upon Discovery in the same way - and might make a change if those shows end up haviing higher viewership. I could see them deciding to spin off several of the characters onto an entirely new show, and hanging up its spurs.
To be pedantic, just the three/one.
Siddig/Bashir doesn't really fall into that category. He'd certainly not be embraced by white supremacist groups at least. The character is meant to be Indian, the actor is of Sudanese heritage.
Close enough.Well, I’m a 51 year old straight white male and I’ve been shat upon...
by a pigeon, when I was nine. Does that count?
(and oh the tales I could tell, about human waste being flung about.... but nobody wants to hear about my Hospital War Stories)
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Hell, TNG, TOS, VGR, DS9 and ENT were far more blatant and over the top about it. I mean, we're well into the second season and there hasn't been an allegory for racism, we haven't had a speech about how bad capitalism is, we haven't been told belief in religion is stupid (we've had a character say it, but the show makes it clear it's just her opinion).
DSC didn't even have the first gay kiss in Star Trek... But that was between two women, so that's different.
I suppose what we've learnt is that Star Trek in the past was too subtle when it came to its messages. I'm not sure how much more blatant it could be... Perhaps a flashing neon sign every 3 minutes with a segment at the end where Patrick Stewart helpfully explains what the story was about.
Yeah. Quite honestly in a certain respect I think Discovery is the least political Star Trek TV series which has been produced, insofar as they have completely avoided the didactic "issue" episodes which are meant to teach the viewers a particular moral lesson. Basically any political content/themes are just touched upon as lightly as possible and then pretty quickly dropped to get back to the "good part."
Infraction for trolling. Comments to PM.
Do not bring your baggage here.
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I don't necessarily agree. I actually think there's a LOT going on under the surface on DSC. It's just not as overt, obvious, and speechified as past Treks have been, so people are not used to seeing Trek present issues that way. DSC seems to bring issues up for thought, but not outright commenting on how we should feel about them. I personally find that a vastly more effective and refreshing style than the TNG era "After School Special" approach to issues. People (not you...) seem to think that because we're not being told how to think, the show doesn't have anything going on. It's simply not true.
And yes, I believe they don't need it to be front-and-center every episode. I also really appreciate that as well. I don't need political messaging from my TV shows. I get that enough from real life, reading, and educating myself. I don't need Janeway or Picard lecturing me through my television to figure out what we need to fix in our society. That's tedious and insulting.
Picard (in the last 3 mins of the episode): "You know, Number One, humanity has evolved beyond the need for <insert condescending element about present-day humanity here>. Thankfully, we were able to show <insert "backward thinking alien monolithic culture of the week" here> just how much more enlightened and sensible our approach is."
Riker: "That we did, sir. That we did!"
Picard (gives Riker and Troi a knowing smile as he straightens his tunic with great self-appreciation): "Mr LaForge, Make it so...Warp One Engage!"
Bahm ba BAaaaaaamm.... Buh bum bum baaaahhhh bAAAAAAAMMMMMMMM! -Created by Gene Roddenberry
Ugh, fucking slit my wrists with a rusty hacksaw.
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The thing is, TNG didn't invent it. Didactic "message" episodes were common in TOS as well. I mean, A Private Little War was an explicit Vietnam allegory. And it's hard to watch an episode like A Taste of Armageddon and not explicitly understand what the showrunners were attempting to say. Other cases were less overtly political, but TOS episodes were - in general - catagorized by a theme which was so easy to see you'd have to be braindead to miss it. I think it's honestly a core portion of the Trek format - that the point of a particular episode is never obscure.
Hey, I remember that episode...
To be fair, I'm fine with the way it was handled in TNG most of the time. From my most recent viewings, it was only a few episodes in the first couple of series that were really annoying in that respect. Even then, TOS had plenty of those moments too*.
* Ninj'd on this part
You're not wrong. It just seemed a little more hamfisted in the TNG years.
But the writing styles, sensibilities, and culture was FAR different in 1967 than it is now, as was the audience level of sophistication for such things. For its time, it was very sophisticated to hide allegorical messages in science-fiction presentations. Today, not so much.
Each series is a product of its time. So, I don't agree that it is a "core portion of the Trek format" because it's woefully outdated. DSC is presenting issues in a far more modern and sensitive way than having some self-righteous character tell us how to think and why we are great and they are stupid every other episode.
I think people miss that point (or choose to miss it) because they expect Picard telling Riker all about it at the end of an episode where the Green People repress and hold power over the Purple People on the ghastly backward alien planet.
Hey, I remember that episode...
To be fair, I'm fine with the way it was handled in TNG most of the time. From my most recent viewings, it was only a few episodes in the first couple of series that were really annoying in that respect. Even then, TOS had plenty of those moments too*.
* Ninj'd on this part
Right but...
1. Those shows were all products of their time
2. If DSC is expected to do that "because Star Trek", you're talking about regressing 30-50 years in style and sophistication. No thank you. That's what The Orville does, and while I really like that show, I don't take it seriously because it's like watching something straight out of the early 90's
Yep, Jackson Roy Kirk, who goes by J.R.!
I fundamentally disagree for a couple reasons.
1. I don't think there's anything more "sophisticated" about burying your theme deep enough that it's not obvious at all what your episode is trying to say beyond the surface "this is what happened in the plot and to the characters." Which is where I typically am with Discovery episodes - even ones I generally enjoy (which has included most of Season 2 to date).
2. The entire point of science fiction as a genre is either to use hypothetical technology to examine the human condition or use allegory. If you're not going to do either one of those things, there's no particular reason why your story needs to be in a SFnal setting.
Yeah, I think DS9 struck the best balance. The themes of individual DS9 episodes were generally speaking as explicit as any other Trek show of its time period. But instead of saying "X is bad, and Y is good, mkay?" the typical DS9 "issue" format was to present a problem but not offer a pat resolution to the conflict that created a "happy ending." It was still explicit about what it wanted the viewer to think about but withheld judgement about what the viewer should conclude.
Looks like we're screwed then, because I don't see eye-to-eye on either of these things.
Perhaps its not truly "sophisticated," but doing what Trek has done in the past with the "message of the week" and spelling out the obvious is the very definition of "UNsophisticated", in our current times, so I'm not sure where that leaves us.
I don't agree that the entire point of science fiction is to use tech or allegory to explore the human condition. Sometimes a fun adventure in space is just a fun adventure in space. I actually believe that one of the main appeals of science fiction is to tell a story in a fantastic setting and stretch the imagination. That's it. It need not be allegorical or examinationish. It just needs to be a fun or thoughtful story in a cool setting that inspires the imagination a bit.
I must agre a little.Looks like we're screwed then, because I don't see eye-to-eye on either of these things.
I don't agree that the entire point of science fiction is to use tech or allegory to explore the human condition. Sometimes a fun adventure in space is just a fun adventure in space. I actually believe that one of the main appeals of science fiction is to tell a story in a fantastic setting and stretch the imagination. That's it. It need not be allegorical or examinationish. It just needs to be a fun or thoughtful story in a cool setting that inspires the imagination a bit.
Then again, this is entire point of division between hard sci-fi and soft sci-fi with Trek always kinda drifting between these two.
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