Not sure I'd trust that happening.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x12 - "There Is A Tide…"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Osyraa was happily keeping people in slavery and causing pre-warp societies to collapse and her inability to take responsibility for her actions really says a lot about how morally bankrupt she is. Osyraa's platitudes of ending slavery are ultimately meaningless because of this.
Nothing up until the meeting with vance has suggested Osyraa wants peace with the Federation. The chain has constantly infringed on the Federations borders, and threatened worlds like argeth and kaminar and had previously backed out of negotiations which means Osyraa didn't need to capture discovery to get the Federation to negotiating table
There are a ton of holes in Osyraa's story that Vance was 100% right to be suspicious of and he was right to ask her to put up or shut up.
My guess is yes, probably has something to do with the giant implant looking things buried inside her cheeks.
But it didn't seem like she could fool the lie detector once it got to Osyrra having to not be in charge of the chain and having someone she didn't control be the actual one in charge.
"The Naked Now" was a TNG episode.
The above exchange between Kirk and Spock occurred in the TOS S2 episode: "The Omega Glory" Right after Spock nerve pinches Yang Cloud Williams 'girlfriend" as Kirk and Cloud William are fighting in a cell.
Turn in your Star Trek Nerd card.
Now/Time, tomato/tomahto...
He seems obviously primed for a hero turn, but if you consider him a villain, he could also fall under the evil person listens to classical music trope (though the music being Andorian is a new wrinkle).
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Yes, but that was an obvious gimmee since there's no way the Admiral would have believed otherwise.
Do you believe that Osira was able to fake the lie detector? She's a businesswoman, she's like a ferengi. And even though she's clearly capable of horrible acts, she's not a sociopath and also clearly cares about people. She understood that changing the way she does things was in her best interest.
She intended to do everything she said she would do, as long as she could be the one in control. The only point of disagreement here was whether she would be held to account for the horrible things she did in the past.
And there's the rub.
A lot of people are attacked here, by everyone who passionately disagrees with whatever opinion the others have. I keep having to fight for my position on canon, consistency, science, actual on-screen facts all the time against the "who cares" kinda people, and the "only my interpretation is right" group, the "everyone I hate deserves to be hated, and if you're against my hate, you must love them" faction, and those who have closed their minds and have to demonstrate to everyone that they did, or those who have to ridicule fellow fans for liking a different aspect of the shows than them.
It's the price to pay for being on a huge BBS with a lot of readers and posts every day. But there is a certain function for that, when your eyes begin to hurt from all the rolling certain people make them do
It got worse throughout the year, probably cause everyone is under the effect from TNG Sarek (have tempers become a little frayed on this ship lately? - I hadn't noticed. - *bar brawl* - I see what you mean.)
There are still good posts every day, more good ones than bad ones (that I can see
), so just filter out what wears you out and focus on posts that are helpful, positive, or stimulating good discussions.
Which Vance was aware of. In the short term you end the violence, end the slavery, and establish peace. A step in the right direction and a foothold. Then you be vigilant and use your leverage to keep them to their word. Use her selfishness to your advantage, manage her. Win on the battlefield of politics and economics instead of war. Much fewer deaths that way.
If we're comparing places to talk about Discovery. I challenge you to find a place not besieged by religious purists finding it an utter betrayal of Gene Roddenberry. TrekBBS is well moderated and has voices on both sides.
At what cost? It was a concession and one that Vance was not willing to make. Osyrra would not be willing to be held to responsibility and that would poison the Federation's ideals.
I think everything Osyraa proposed in front of the holographic lie detector was sincere. Maybe not in altruistic spirit, but in practice she was willing to make certain concessions.
I think the point of the negotiations was to show the Federation as an ideal vs. Osyraa’s realpolitik.
Vance’s form of moral idealism even amidst a dystopian backdrop - how they’ve sacrificed so much already but this is one step they’re not willing to take.
Osyraa’s form of pragmatic authoritarianism even amidst an anarchist backdrop - how they’ve benefitted so much from the anarchy yet are willing to sacrifice significant concessions in order to preserve their power and society.
And it all comes down to the simple point that Vance is willing to wipe most of the slate clean if Osyraa takes personal responsibility, and Osyraa is willing to concede significant assets if she is allowed to retain control and power. Ultimately these two perspectives are fundamentally incompatible and that’s why the negotiation fails.
Interesting discussion.
I think the point of the negotiations was to show the Federation as an ideal vs. Osyraa’s realpolitik.
Vance’s form of moral idealism even amidst a dystopian backdrop - how they’ve sacrificed so much already but this is one step they’re not willing to take.
Osyraa’s form of pragmatic authoritarianism even amidst an anarchist backdrop - how they’ve benefitted so much from the anarchy yet are willing to sacrifice significant concessions in order to preserve their power and society.
And it all comes down to the simple point that Vance is willing to wipe most of the slate clean if Osyraa takes personal responsibility, and Osyraa is willing to concede significant assets if she is allowed to retain control and power. Ultimately these two perspectives are fundamentally incompatible and that’s why the negotiation fails.
Interesting discussion.
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I don’t think she was outright lying as such, just being very selective with the truths she was telling.
That face being the science guy
Like others have said already: I love that they gave Ossyra more depth, so she's not just a one dimensional evil villain. It kind of reminds me of Michael Corleone in The Godfather 3- she may be really trying to make The Chain legitimate, but is having a hard time going about it the right way, since she knows nothing else.
Precisely. And even if he didn’t succeed such independence could have been reached in time, but ending slavery and war NOW.
Which weren’t a crime under her government.
Billions of slaves that will remain slaves might disagree.
So she’s *literally* a cardboard-but villain!
Exactly. And many real world treaties have been signed knowing that the supposedly evil leaders will keep remain in power but things would be much better for everyone with gradual changes, not hardlines and war.
For Gene’s sake, Spain and Greece remained fascist for decades after WWII, does someone here believe continuing the war to “free” them would have been a good idea?
The Cold War went on for almost half of a century, with the people of each block saying the others’ leaders were evil and corrupt, yet I don’t think many up here would have preferred nuclear war.
I don’t know how many think Hungary should be invaded because Orban is supposedly evil. Or that the west should attack Russia to free it from the “evil” Putin (on the other hand, treaties with him are done every day, as sanctions and other political and economical means are used to push him in a certain direction).
Sure, the alliance between the federation and the chain wouldn’t have been perfect, but would have helped people in the immediate and would have been open to future improvements.
Also, Vance’s ought to study some history of the Federation: they’ve been allies with the Klingon, the Romulans, made pace with the cardassians and definitely avoided trying to put in trial the founders, even if the dominion war had been brutal and slavery was pretty much *not* abolished in the dominion.
right, at what cost, exactly?
Poison how exactly? Responsibility for what, exactly? Doing practices that were legal at the time?
Probably bipolar.And casually,maliciously disintegrating that Andorian guy?
Maybe she’s just misunderstood.
They aren't going to remain slaves.
It's Orion and Andoria against the Federations 38 member worlds, sure they might be able to make a fight of things, but with that level of resource disparity the winner was never really in question.
no offence but have you watched/played any sci-fi before mass effect cause while love ME most thing in it isn't original but build upon decades of tropes
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