Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x10 - "Terra Firma, Part 2"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Commander Richard, Dec 16, 2020.

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Rate the episode...

  1. 10 -Excellent!

    21.1%
  2. 9

    21.5%
  3. 8

    24.4%
  4. 7

    15.3%
  5. 6

    3.8%
  6. 5

    4.3%
  7. 4

    2.4%
  8. 3

    2.4%
  9. 2

    1.9%
  10. 1 - Terrible!

    2.9%
  1. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The episode was ok. I'd give it a seven. No missteps, it just seemed like a smaller episode that it should have been.

    Some thoughts:
    • The Guardian effect was really cool! I thought the scenes with Carl were quite well written, including his explanations.
    • The farewells dragged on too long, not just on the planet, but raising a glass to Georgiou. I would have preferred to spend more time showing her demise in the Mirror Universe and ending with Michael, sulking in her quarters.
    • I found Georgiou's interactions with Saru by far the most compelling relationship in the episode. I got a little kick seeing Saru and other Kelpians coming to her rescue.
    • Still, Georgiou's demise seemed small.
    • All the talk of Lorca made his absence painfully conspicuous.
    • Dadmiral has started giving me Badmiral vibes.
    • I don't feel giving Detmer more lines is making things better.
    • Save Book, I found the prime characters' activities in this episode to be uninteresting.
    • Three months of data points? A reference to All Good Things?
     
  2. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    Nothing like a little early morning hyperbole to get one started in the morning.
     
  3. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    "Structure" used loosely. It could also be its own gateway in time-space. Remember, it said it was a "being-machine" and it was one of the oldest items from the Trek chronology. It's way beyond anything we've seen in even the 32nd century.

    RAMA

    What "demise"? This was a two-part pilot for her new series, and it totally re-characterized her personality and viewpoint.
     
  4. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That was a bit of a roller-coaster in terms of an episode. Ultimately effective, but there were multiple times in the back half where my opinion of the episode veered widely back and forth.

    The beginning section which took place in the MU was honestly great. Plotwise it was a foreordained conclusion of course - everyone other than Georgiou (including the viewer) could see the second betrayal coming a mile away. But it was set up as a dramatic tragedy in miniature, harkening back to the Greeks and Shakespeare. Tragedy is not a dramatic form we get to see often in Trek because the protagonists - by nature of the structure of the series - have to win.

    When we end up back on the snowy planet with Carl, I was really worried for a little bit about the two-parter. The reveal Carl was the Guardian of Forever was cheesy and entirely unnecessary. But my real concern was that Georgiou was back in the 32nd century. Having a two-parter to see her off the show into her own series is self-indulgent, but not pulling the trigger and using the two parter solely for her own character growth (with an exit to come later) would have been inexcusable. Thankfully it shifted again, with Carl being vague enough that the Section 31 show could be set anywhere from the 20th century to the 27th. I'd say that while Georgiou's goodbye with Michael was a bit overwritten and overwrought, it actually mostly felt earned this time - because the two parter succeeded in making me actually feel for Georgiou for the first time. Indeed, I wasn't sad at all for Michael, I was sad for Georgiou, who just realized that her idealized adoptive daughter never existed except in her head, and she had to leave behind someone who was actually much closer to what she really wanted.

    Once we get back on the ship, it's just rote, generic Discovery - which is fine. It is interesting to me they found an excuse to put everyone recurring who couldn't appear in the MU side of the episode (Stamets cause he died in the first episode, Book, Adira, Reno, and Vance) in this short section of the episode. At first I was really confused why Michael let everyone think Georgiou was dead, and then I realized that the writers wanted an excuse for a maudlin "funeral" scene where everyone toasts how awesome she was. While the scene with Michael and Georgiou on the planet was fine, this didn't ring true to me, and felt totally unnecessary. The writers (who obviously love the character) may have sold me on the character finally, but it stretches credulity that everyone onboard sincerely misses someone who largely hurled insults at them.

    Still, the flaws of the episode were relatively minor. 8/10 I would say. Back to generic Discovery next week it seems.
     
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  5. KepperC

    KepperC Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    He said Georgiou is going back to when the Prime and Mirror Universe were the same. That's closer to our time, right?
     
  6. TIM Thomason

    TIM Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    She died (or was dying) in the Alt-MU before waking up back on Dannus IV.
     
  7. TIM Thomason

    TIM Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    At most, if we assume backstory from Rome and Shakespeare are propaganda, then 2063 (when mirror-Cochrane shot Solkar) is the latest branch-off point.

    But the Guardian actually said when they were "still aligned", which compared with Kovich's comments last episode could just mean when the two universes were still traversible. 23rd or 24th century seem to fit the bill.
     
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  8. TPezz

    TPezz Commander Red Shirt

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    Could the S31 series be set in the PU, during the Enterprise era, with Georgiou actually being the original founder of S31
     
  9. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Uh, the final attack on her.
     
  10. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    IIRC the original plans were to set it in the present, or even as early as the 1990s.
     
  11. Yistaan

    Yistaan Commodore Commodore

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    They could set the Section 31 show in the 25th century. I don't know how much longer Picard will run. Draft La Sirena into Section 31 and bring back Tyler because Klingon aging or time crystals of Boreth or something.
     
  12. Ghost of Tuvix

    Ghost of Tuvix Haunting Janeway's Dreams Moderator

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    It sort of defeats the purpose of the ignore function if you loudly announce that you're putting someone on ignore, and it's against the rules as well, so please don't do this again.

    Beyond that, it seems a tad kneejerk and defensive to put someone on ignore for saying they stopped watching half of one episode with a huge tonal and setting shift like this one. It's not like they said they dropped the whole series or anything, they just didn't care to finish one episode. That shouldn't invalidate their opinion for all time.
     
  13. arch101

    arch101 Commodore Commodore

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    I wondered about that for a minute, then realized that without the space travel, it's just another cop show. So, At least 2200-, I think. Could really be anything.
     
  14. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    No.
     
  15. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A Trek show set in the present could be a MiB/X Files type thing. We know plenty of aliens (and future time travelers) visited Trek's Earth on screen.
     
  16. KepperC

    KepperC Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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  17. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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  18. KepperC

    KepperC Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Franchise name aside, does Star Trek need space travel?
     
  19. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Yes
     
  20. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Strong disagreement here. Trek is ultimately about characters and concepts. Space travel was a useful conceit because it allows for a change of setting every single week, but there are other you could structure a show allowing for a variety of stories to be told.

    That said, if they go with a present (or near-present) setting for Section 31, I am guessing within 1-2 seasons they'd find some excuse to have a super-secret starship fall into the lap of Georgiou.
     
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