Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x12 - "Vaulting Ambition"

[lawman]

In retrospect it is odd that Lorca had to be reminded that he might not be the Captain of the Discovery when they first crossed over. He almost blew his cover right there

Good catch. That suggests to me that he has no reason to believe PULorca is dead, and may have assumed that the two of them switched places.

Dataswig, the USS Defiant crossed over into the Mirror Universe 100 years into the past. So tech wasn't that advanced yet. Which made the ship a valuable tactical prize to plunder.

Many thanks... Much appreciated

To fill in the details a bit... the backstory on this can be found in the TOS episode "The Tholian Web" and the ENT two-parter "In A Mirror, Darkly."

 

[SJGardner]

Was that to me in regards to Lorca?

In the trailer for next week’s episode there’s a shot of him looking at Burnham and saying “Welcome Home”.

Which says to me, he plans on keeping her...

At first I thought he just said 'Welcome Home' and then they cut to Michael, but no, he said, quote, 'Welcome home, Michael.' We can't know for sure until the next episode airs but as long as it keeps the gears in my head turning while I try to figure out what he meant with that, I'm happy. It could even be indicative of a twist that Mirror Burnham is also alive.

 

[Captain Killy]

At first I thought he just said 'Welcome Home' and then they cut to Michael, but no, he said, quote, 'Welcome home, Michael.' We can't know for sure until the next episode airs but as long as it keeps the gears in my head turning while I try to figure out what he meant with that, I'm happy. It could even be indicative of a twist that Mirror Burnham is also alive.

Oh God, I hope that isn’t the case. As much as I’d like to see a MU vs PU smackdown, we don’t need anymore evil twins.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I agree, he must mostly be Tyler if he was Tyler's mind imposed on Voq's altered body, but why then the 'Manchurian candidate' like brain-washing portrayal? He was given key trigger words that would bring up his buried memories of who and what he is. But for what purpose or mission? His killing of Culber makes no sense unless he was programmed for that purpose, but why would he be? What strategic goal is served by killing Culber? I though L'Rell and Voq wanted to defeat Kol, well that pretty much happened without any trigger words needing to be given.

Culber was never an intended target. Tyler was confused and Culber was threatening to expose him.

 

[SJGardner]

Oh God, I hope that isn’t the case. As much as I’d like to see a MU vs PU smackdown, we don’t need anymore evil twins.

Hopefully, the Landry we'll see in the next episode is the good twin. If Mirror Brunt was a nice guy, maybe she could be one as well. But as for evil twins, I still want to see how Captain Killy fares in our universe. No matter if it'll be played straight or for laughs, I'm still curious.

 

[cultcross]

Didn't see it listed here. Anthony Rapp has confirmed that Prime Stamets and Mirror Stamets have not switched bodies.

Thanks for that - wow, that really was confusing. I genuinely didn't consider any other interpretation of that scene until I read this thread.

How come Stamets was so blasé about Hugh then?

 

[Galaxy]

Hopefully, the Landry we'll see in the next episode is the good twin.

The Landry we saw in the first few episodes did have a evil vibe to her, many complained that she did not behave like a Starfleet officer, calling the prisoners human trash for example. So maybe she was MU. If Lorca did plan an Expedition, then it would stand to reason that he would take a team him. Perhaps prime Landra was abducted to the MU to learn more about it?

 

[SJA]

Thanks for that - wow, that really was confusing. I genuinely didn't consider any other interpretation of that scene until I read this thread.

How come Stamets was so blasé about Hugh then?

It was a disconcerting transition that scene - sometimes the editing on this show is a bit bizarre - My interpretation was that he had momentarily put his grief aside to confront the pressing issue facing the 'network' or whatever its called - to some extent his 'grieving' has been addressed by his Hamlet scenes on the 'ship' with Culber - No doubt he will feel his loss much more profoundly at a later date...

 

[Feron]

Thanks for that - wow, that really was confusing. I genuinely didn't consider any other interpretation of that scene until I read this thread.

How come Stamets was so blasé about Hugh then?

People process their grief differently.

I know for myself after the loss of a loved one for a while I just went numb and focused on my work, kind of like Paul was seen doing. Plus, he is a professional at heart. He knows that potentially more lives are at stake, so he puts his grief aside for the moment to focus on the immediate emergency at hand.

 

[Long Syntax]

Perhaps there's something special about the first show you watch, or the one that gets its hooks into you in your formative years... that's how I discovered TOS, myself.

As I've said in the past, each and every series has held a special place in my heart. Without a doubt, as with most things in life, firsts are always special. While watching the various series with my daughter I occasionally reminded her to enjoy the experience because, although she may wind up re-watching whole series again, or maybe just episodes here and there, you can only experience something for the first time once. She's 11 now and growing up too quick. I've enjoyed watching each series with her and being able to experience each one for the first time again, but this time through her eyes.

 

[Nyotarules]

Part of me wonders if rather than "purge" Voq from Tyler, L'Rell took him into herself. And she'll somehow end up being able to transfer Prime Voq into Mirror Voq, thus "saving" him.

She would have to fight Mirror L'Rell to do that!

 

[Michael]

Thanks for that - wow, that really was confusing. I genuinely didn't consider any other interpretation of that scene until I read this thread.

How come Stamets was so blasé about Hugh then?

Wait, what?! My wife, who I watched the episode with, and a friend who watched independently all interpreted it as Stamets waking up in Mirror Stamets' body. How could they edit it that confusingly?

Also, maybe someone can answer me something (sorry if I missed it in the thread): Why did Lorca and Burnham have to take a minutes-long warp-speed journey to join the Emperor's ship, when that same ship seemed to destroy the rebel alliance's colony that the Shenzhou was orbiting? And, from last week's episode: Where was the Discovery when they beamed aboard Tyler's body floating in space?

 

[saddestmoon]

Hmmm... mirror Ripper anyone?

It could happen...

Episode-wise: I gave it a solid 10.

absolutely loved it!

 

[Longinus]

Wait, what?! My wife, who I watched the episode with, and a friend who watched independently all interpreted it as Stamets waking up in Mirror Stamets' body. How could they edit it that confusingly?

It really did not occur me that this is what could have happened, but a lot of people are saying that this is how they interpreted it, though I don't understand why...

Also, maybe someone can answer me something (sorry if I missed it in the thread): Why did Lorca and Burnham have to take a minutes-long warp-speed journey to join the Emperor's ship, when that same ship seemed to destroy the rebel alliance's colony that the Shenzhou was orbiting? And, from last week's episode: Where was the Discovery when they beamed aboard Tyler's body floating in space?

Yeah, none of that really made sense to me.

 

[Sir Stewart Wallace]

The Emperor Ship had to book it from Yavin 4 before Disney caught up with them. It's implied.

 

[Tuskin38]

I thought he was eating something like an octopus or squid. How would he have access to Kalpian meat?

Could be synthesized, or he hired someone to go get it.

 

[Jaimito]

the main thing

Wait, what?! My wife, who I watched the episode with, and a friend who watched independently all interpreted it as Stamets waking up in Mirror Stamets' body. How could they edit it that confusingly?

Also, maybe someone can answer me something (sorry if I missed it in the thread): Why did Lorca and Burnham have to take a minutes-long warp-speed journey to join the Emperor's ship, when that same ship seemed to destroy the rebel alliance's colony that the Shenzhou was orbiting? And, from last week's episode: Where was the Discovery when they beamed aboard Tyler's body floating in space?

they never show the fire off the Emperor ship. Maybe it was off another ship or some new tech. doesn't make sense for the flag ship to get so close to the rebel base.

 

[Gepard]

It really did not occur me that this is what could have happened, but a lot of people are saying that this is how they interpreted it, though I don't understand why...

The choice to cut to MU!Stamets waking up immediately after Prime!Stamets is told to open his eyes is the main point of confusion. It implies a continuity of action that apparently was not intended.

On top of that, the use of a slow pan over to reveal the Terran Empire logo on the Sickbay monitor is the cinematic language for "uh-oh." Another decision that makes a lot more sense if they had swapped.

The whole thing could have been clarified if we had just seen Prime!Stamets wake up on the Discovery first.

 

[jaime]

We haven't seen that though, and Stamets never entered or experienced the "network" until he infused himself with tardigrade DNA, and this was well after Lorca had crossed over. So Stamets and Mirror Stamets wouldn't have been aware of each other until after the crossover.

Lorca knows the network goes between Universes, he sets the jump co-ordinates. He knows this is his way home (outright saying it) and knows which part of the network to aim for. Stamets is the expert, and Mu Stamets has clearly been playing with the network a lot longer. Odds are that’s how he got to Prime, to get his own advantage, (the Defiant is from there, it’s possible Georgiou trusted him with this information...he may even have subverted the Mirror Disco or whatever the sister ship was called to get there.) then return. Him working with MU Stamets is the only logical explanation for all of those little details, and may even explain his heartfelt implied relationship with Stamets, and his story about finding him in a lab.
We do know that Stamets was in some ways mind linked with MU Stamets, it’s possible Lorca was even talking to ‘his’ Stamets through ‘ours’.

 

[jaime]

In retrospect it is odd that Lorca had to be reminded that he might not be the Captain of the Discovery when they first crossed over. He almost blew his cover right there

Maybe he was once captain of it. Tilly is his replacement, and he never found out when on the lam.