Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x12 - "Vaulting Ambition"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I noticed that as well. It went to commercial around 5-to-9 here on SPACE and I was expecting it to return for the last bit of show, but the credits rolled instead and I was like whaaat?? Post-credits, Space didn't even run a string of commercials to fill the space till 9pm and instead just started the next show, which effed up their scheduling for the rest of the night, so the PVR missed the first few mins of AfterTrek later on.
Wait, AfterTrek airs on TV here? I've been watching it on the website this whole time.
Complete and utter agreement. But I would go a step further. I would say that, if Lorca hadn't been MU-native, that I saw nothing wrong with his portrayal at all. Perhaps a case of Acute Stress Disorder but not PTSD. Nor did I think he did anything that anyone else in his chain wouldn't've likely done as well. Even, controversially, the destruction of the Buran. I've seen situations were our folks have been forced to call down iron on a friendly position to take out the bad-guys. Fallujah was like that. It's rough and it hurts but it happens. Some people here act as if that's the Devil's work but, frankly, they have no idea how war is actually fought and what one has to do to accomplish your objectives. Hell, I recall, way back when Discovery began, that one of the chief complaints about Lorca was that he yelled at Staments. Are you serious? THAT makes him a "fascist warmonger"?! Because he yells at an insubordinate lieutenant--the officer equivalent of an E-2/E-3!--and hurts his feelings! I cannot count how many times I've seen that happen and much, much "worse," to boot.
The viewing public has absolutely no comprehension of the profession of arms. And, so too, the writers. And so we get this. When the normal actions of a wartime commander are considered "fascist." That tells me more about the writers and the viewing public than it does about the characters.
I love it! It takes the classic premise and updates it for the modern era. Maybe after the MU, the Discovery will go hoping to other parallel universes?
Even though the big Lorca reveal was predicted by a lot of people from the moment we started to suspect the MU was involved, I still liked the way the reveal played out. The hypersensitivity to light being a Mirror Terran trait which gave him away, actually was a big surprise, I never expected that to actually be this important.
Emperor Georgiou was awesome, I have to admit, I was a bit surprised how quickly her and Burnham started cooperating with each other. MU Burnham being her adopted daughter was a cool surprise, and a nice way to have an alternate version of their relationship in the Prime Universe. I was expecting the Emperor to end up being the big bad, but now it's looking like that might end up being Lorca instead.
Do we know if Prime Stamets was working on the Spore Drive before or after he met Lorca? I was wondering if perhaps Lorca knew about MU Stamets work, and got Prime Stamets working on it so he could use it to get back home. Well, it's obvious he used it to get home, but what I'm not clear on is if he took advantage of work that was already being done, or if he set it all up himself.
I was surprised at Lorca's reason for all of this, I had assumed he was just trying to hide out. All of the stuff with him and Burnham actually being part of an assassination plot against the Emperor never occurred to me, even after what we learned last week.
The stuff with the Stametses in the network was interesting, I'm curious how the dying spores is going to tie into everything else going on. I'm not sure yet if they switched bodies or not, at first I thought they might have, but then the Stamets on Discovery seemed to be acting more normal than I would have expected if they did switch bodies. I think it's pretty much a given that they will find a way to pull Culber's consciousness out of network, and find a way to get it back into his body.
Emperor Georgiou was awesome, I have to admit, I was a bit surprised how quickly her and Burnham started cooperating with each other. MU Burnham being her adopted daughter was a cool surprise, and a nice way to have an alternate version of their relationship in the Prime Universe. I was expecting the Emperor to end up being the big bad, but now it's looking like that might end up being Lorca instead.
Do we know if Prime Stamets was working on the Spore Drive before or after he met Lorca? I was wondering if perhaps Lorca knew about MU Stamets work, and got Prime Stamets working on it so he could use it to get back home. Well, it's obvious he used it to get home, but what I'm not clear on is if he took advantage of work that was already being done, or if he set it all up himself.
I was surprised at Lorca's reason for all of this, I had assumed he was just trying to hide out. All of the stuff with him and Burnham actually being part of an assassination plot against the Emperor never occurred to me, even after what we learned last week.
The stuff with the Stametses in the network was interesting, I'm curious how the dying spores is going to tie into everything else going on. I'm not sure yet if they switched bodies or not, at first I thought they might have, but then the Stamets on Discovery seemed to be acting more normal than I would have expected if they did switch bodies. I think it's pretty much a given that they will find a way to pull Culber's consciousness out of network, and find a way to get it back into his body.
I don't know. TNG did it pretty well.
Well, the preview for next week has Saru saying "The Discovery is no longer Lorca's. It is ours!" so...that seems to indicate that the cat is out of the bag. And, even if he did vindicate himself, he has to deal with Cornwell back home, so...writing's on the wall, I think.
DS9 was the exception. Although the seasons before the Dominion war did have several episodes that were faithful to the idea even if the motto was not spoken out loud in the intro.
Jesus Christ. Are you guys for real?
Next thing you're telling me is Star Trek has was never science fiction either?
This is the fucking mission statement. Of the ship. Of the show. This is not up for debate. Just because you might not like it, doesn't make it any less true. Cut your contrarian alternative facts bullshit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_no_man_has_gone_before
I think they do, they just don't state it much. Riker explicitly says that with replicated food we no longer enslave animals for meat. Replicated meat isn't meat. Thus only in rare cases is someone not a vegetarian (Kirk cooking real eggs in Generations, for example).
I am so not happy right now.
Don't get me wrong, it's clever how the long con all ties together, from Tilly to Burnham and everyone else, but I fucking hate it. I loved Lorca, he was my favourite character by far. He was damaged, he was an asshole, but he was great. And now he is how he is because he's an evil mirror duplicate.
I'm pretty fucked up. I loved that fucked up, damaged people could prosper in this version of Trek's universe. I loved that there were shades of grey. I hate that the shades of grey I loved were only there because he was an evil mirror duplicate and only pure, virtuous and well adjusted people can be in the happy joyous Starfleet.
Fucking pissed off.
I too liked Lorca, am disappointed he is Mirror Lorca and not just "conflicted" Lorca, and will be disappointed if Isaacs doesn't stick around on Discovery. I don't feel the hatred you do, but I understand your sentiments.
If you mean you expect them to time travel to undo original events, I can't see them doing that at all. First of all, with "Magic to make..." the writers established they are going to be pretty strict about not just throwing in time travel or letting it do everything. Second, I think these writers, for whatever other flaws they have, will not make the mistake of erasing everything that has happened up till this point for the sake of an "easy" redemption/fix. That is the same kind of crap that was pulled on Voyager for years. Most of the fandom hates it, the writers of DS9 specifically rebelled against it as much as they could, and in general it is not acceptable in modern TV - especially for serialized shows where character continuity is king.
If Discovery had remained an anthology show, there might have been some merit to a last minute time travel event/sacrifice to correct a reality that went wrong (mutiny/start of Klingon war/deaths in the millions/etc.) but that is not this show.
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Despite the grand guignol theatrical grittiness, this is not a show written successfully for grown-ups. Character motivations, and therefore the characters, remain pat and simplistic.I am so not happy right now.
Don't get me wrong, it's clever how the long con all ties together, from Tilly to Burnham and everyone else, but I fucking hate it. I loved Lorca, he was my favourite character by far. He was damaged, he was an asshole, but he was great. And now he is how he is because he's an evil mirror duplicate.
I'm pretty fucked up. I loved that fucked up, damaged people could prosper in this version of Trek's universe. I loved that there were shades of grey. I hate that the shades of grey I loved were only there because he was an evil mirror duplicate and only pure, virtuous and well adjusted people can be in the happy joyous Starfleet.
Fucking pissed off.
Yeah, I'm gonna base the shows "mission" on what actually appeared on the screen. Because those are actual facts not alt-facts. Your link merely traced the origins of the monologue and doesn't establish it as a mission statement for the ship or the show.
Because, as others have pointed out, she really is not all that bright, when it all comes down to it. She makes a lot of mistakes that rookie wouldn't.
One of the things we had to do before going into an operational area on a mission was get rid of personal artefacts. Nothing to tie us to anything other than our name, rank, and service. Nothing that could, if we were captured, be used against us during an interrogation. Seems like something the writers could've done more work on, but...
In short, it was for drama. They wanted an easy way to get Burnham out of a sticky situation. It would've been more interesting, to me at least, if she had to talk her way through and convince the Emperor of her bona fides...
Tell that to GoT!!!
Time travel is relative. Lets wait and see.
Then you didn't watch the show(s) either.
Just because the show depicted the adventures during said mission, which quite deviated from the original goal, doesn't invalidate that this was the primary motivation for the entire show. ALWAYS.
The same way a medical drama is still about people in a hospital having the mission statement of "curing people", despite the show primarily tackling character and relationship issues during it's run-time.
Again: Cut your bullshit alternative facts.
Sorry, that is revisionism. It was clearly intended to be the show's mission statement. It was in the opening credits for the first and second Star Trek series. It was clearly meant to describe what Star Trek was supposed to be about.
I hear you, on all fronts. I, too, was one of those mission essential folks who had to come in to work for no guarantee of pay. And now, just a couple of hours after I got into work...we get a snow storm and I'm back at home! :-)
Good thing is, the shutdown's all but over.
I gave the show a 7, begrudgingly. And, I admit, part of that was after I'd watched the previews and saw the EEVVIIIIIL Lorca (TM) going full-on Adam West-style camp. Just seriously dampened my entire mood...
