Star Trek Continues, Episode 4 - "The White Iris"

[Warped9]

There's a difference between fair criticism and simply bashing. I don't think STC is being bashed or nitpicked to death.

I will say that some nits getting into the scripts are strange given Mignogna and company are supposed to be huge TOS fans, but then anyone can slip up. Throughout "official" Trek there are lots of things one pretty much has to gloss over and ignore. The reference to the Farragut is something I'm surprised didn't get caught, but it's there and I can only ignore it. The obvious reference to the Xindi and even the Vulcan katra is nuts considering those things didn't even exist as ideas in 1969 and goes against what Mignogna and company said they would not do.

Throughout TOS Kirk has indeed consulted with his officers, but I don't recall him ever waffling over a decision or consulting endlessly. To write him otherwise is to try to make him more like Picard. Even TMP and later era Kirk wasn't like that.

I don't mind McKennah as a character and as an extra female voice for TOS, but I resist the idea Kirk would turn to her rather than McCoy or Spock. That isn't who Kirk is. By rights McKennah should be part of McCoy's staff and consulted when required, but I resist he being shoehorned in as a major member of the command group.

I, for one, would like to see more of Uhura.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Throughout TOS Kirk has indeed consulted with his officers, but I don't recall him ever waffling over a decision or consulting endlessly. To write him otherwise is to try to make him more like Picard. Even TMP and later era Kirk wasn't like that.

The difference in TOS is that when Kirk consulted with his officers —*mainly Spock and McCoy — it was almost a visual, outward representation of Kirk's mind mulling over the options. And that's something fan films have yet to get right. What is it that Shatner used to say about the triumvirate:

Spock was "to be." McCoy was "not to be." And Kirk was "That's the question."​

I'd like to see more of the debate between the three, which allows Kirk to make that decisive decision.

 

[urbandefault]

There's a difference between fair criticism and simply bashing. I don't think STC is being bashed or nitpicked to death.

Maybe I don't see enough of these fan films (and in my view that's not a bad thing), but I'm not seeing other productions put under the same microscope as STC.

That just tells me that Vic and Co. are doing a bang-up job. As if I didn't already know that.

 

[Warped9]

When you raise your game to higher levels then fans can get more picky.

I don't watch many fan films either, but I've seen enough to know what I like and don't like. STC gets a lot of things right and gets so close on others that it's irresistible to point out where I think they miss because I thing they've shown the talent to get even more things right.

I can only hope my criticism is accepted as intended and not taken as being arbitrarily negative and dismissive. STC gives me a Star Trek I can enjoy since TOS and some TNG. I like STC better than any other "official" Trek and certainly far, far better than JJtrek.

 

[GSchnitzer]

There's a difference between fair criticism and simply bashing. I don't think STC is being bashed or nitpicked to death.

Maybe I don't see enough of these fan films (and in my view that's not a bad thing), but I'm not seeing other productions put under the same microscope as STC.

That just tells me that Vic and Co. are doing a bang-up job. As if I didn't already know that.

Oh, we at Phase II get plenty of that kind of scrutiny and are put under the same magnifying glass--and we have been for almost twice as long as STC.

Here's our most recently-released effort:

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6YZlx0DsLE[/yt]

 

[dswynne1]

I think some people set their personal bar way too high for these things.

STC has accomplished what most fan productions aspire to do, and where almost all fall short. That is, moving into the next season of the original show, with an almost seamless connection.

Continues has added, and keeps adding, new layers to the TOS framework. Regardless of whether they choose to revisit old stories, they're giving us new adventures.

Criticize the writing, acting, and execution if you will. But this group of people is doing the best new TOS Trek out there.

If someone had said to Vic, "If you can do better, go for it," I think the STC team accepted the challenge and passed the test. That, and they keep raising the bar for what I call "independent productions."

So, to all the detractors I say this: If you can do better, go for it.

I think the real problem is generational, and it's not the fault of anyone. I came of age during the TNG era, while some during the TOS era, and I think those formative years have colored our perception of how the characters are portrayed (Kirk vs caricature of Kirk). In fact, you can say the style of acting has changed, with Shatner's style being rooted from his days as a Canadian thespian versus Vic's more contemporary style of acting. So, I don't think it is fair to criticize how Kirk is portrayed, since I doubt that the performances of the actors are of the same temperament to begin with. Still, what can help is having a solid script that highlights Kirk command style, and build around that.

 

[DCR]

Personally, I look forward to every release from both productions (and from a number of others).

From my own perspective I think they each succeed in different ways. STC does some things better than NV/PII and vice versa. Neither is perfect, but they have both provided me with quality entertainment.

 

[BoredShipCapt'n]

It's great to see the quality of fan films going up and up as they build on successes and come to believe in new possibilities. I loved Mind-Sifter and The White Iris. Exciting that two leading productions are building engine rooms at the same time.

Vic could make his Kirk much more Shatnery if he wanted to, but I think he has so much respect for Shatner that he doesn't want his performance to be perceived as a parody.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whLh7UdA5v4[/yt]

 

[aridas sofia]

I must say after one viewing I am - I hope it isn't hyperbole to say - amazed. I think it is the best bit of fan fiction I have enjoyed and amongst the best episodes of Star Trek I've seen. Sure it is weakened significantly by the absence of an actor the equal of Nimoy in Spock's role, or of Kelly as McCoy. But the fact that it is as good as it is with amateurs in those parts... wow. Just wow.

On a treknical nitpicker note, I guess I can criticize them for making that holodeck a TOS reworking of what TNG depicted. It should be what TAS showed us. But really... who cares? The console could be off screen or part of another holodeck.

Kirk getting hit on the head- i would have had his strange, difficult to treat injury be the result of an energy weapon or nanodart or vapors from some weird spore plant. Bonk Bonk is probably a little too old school to so try McCoy's talents.

The passcode- the episode hinges on this and thus it probably should have been explained a bit why Spock would not also have gotten the code in case of just this kind of calamity. Something about it coming to Kirk's newly implanted command transceiver implant and the attack happening before he could share it with Spock.

Easy fixes on the above treknical points and from a dramatic perspective, not big bugaboos.

I think the return of these earlier characters to be so integral to this story, and this story to be so important to Kirk's development as a character, that it is simply unthinkable not to bring them back or not to tell the story. Kirk dealt with women as objects but he also loved and lost? The conundrum presented there renders the stories as discontinuous and the character of Kirk as cardboard. This kind of catch-up tale attempts to bring "Don Draper" depth to Kirk using pieces integral to his existing story, thus restoring the sense of that story. It has implications not just for this episode but for the entire Kirk tale.

Wow. Just...wow.

 

[DCR]

I think the real problem is generational, and it's not the fault of anyone. I came of age during the TNG era, while some during the TOS era, and I think those formative years have colored our perception of how the characters are portrayed (Kirk vs caricature of Kirk). In fact, you can say the style of acting has changed, with Shatner's style being rooted from his days as a Canadian thespian versus Vic's more contemporary style of acting. So, I don't think it is fair to criticize how Kirk is portrayed, since I doubt that the performances of the actors are of the same temperament to begin with. Still, what can help is having a solid script that highlights Kirk command style, and build around that.

I have to disagree with the bolded statement. I think it is fair to criticize Vic's portrayal of Kirk, even though I personally think it's an excellent one. For many people, myself included, Vic Mignogna is a very convincing Kirk.

However, my main concern, and I am apparently not alone in this, is that STC tends to depict Kirk with more of Picard's command style than his own. That's not a comment on Vic's acting, but rather a reflection on the scripts. They feel like TNG. Then again I grew up with TOS, and TNG didn't come around until my adulthood.

 

[The Cutest of Borg]

I had the pleasure of attending the screening at Phoenix Comicon Friday evening. Hats off to the cast and crew of Star Trek Continues. They've consistently produced quality Star Trek that looks, sounds, and feels like it is the unproduced 4th season of TOS. I'd especially like to thank members of the Continues crew who shared their insights into their production in a number of panels that were held throughout the weekend. It's clear that this is a labor of love for each person associated with Continues, and it shows in everything they do.

I understand the need to offer fair critiques of any production, and there are some legitimate nits to be picked. However, I don't think many of the posters offering said critiques are willing to hold TOS to the same standard to which they hold Star Trek Continues. There are a good number of clunkers that we've managed to overlook in the nearly 50 years of watching Star Trek in syndication, DVD and digital distribution. Even the best TOS has to offer can be subjected to legitimate criticism. I hope folks will keep that in mind as they attempt to hold Star Trek Continues, or any other fan series, to an impossibly high standard.

 

[Zaminhon]

I had the pleasure of attending the screening at Phoenix Comicon Friday evening. Hats off to the cast and crew of Star Trek Continues. They've consistently produced quality Star Trek that looks, sounds, and feels like it is the unproduced 4th season of TOS. I'd especially like to thank members of the Continues crew who shared their insights into their production in a number of panels that were held throughout the weekend. It's clear that this is a labor of love for each person associated with Continues, and it shows in everything they do.

I understand the need to offer fair critiques of any production, and there are some legitimate nits to be picked. However, I don't think many of the posters offering said critiques are willing to hold TOS to the same standard to which they hold Star Trek Continues. There are a good number of clunkers that we've managed to overlook in the nearly 50 years of watching Star Trek in syndication, DVD and digital distribution. Even the best TOS has to offer can be subjected to legitimate criticism. I hope folks will keep that in mind as they attempt to hold Star Trek Continues, or any other fan series, to an impossibly high standard.

Wow, you're so lucky to be able to attend. I would have loved to hear the audience reactions during some of the scenes and of course attend the Q&A session. I'd be interested in reading what you have to share.

 

[Maurice]

By Urban's "put up or shut up" standard almost one here is qualified to comment negatively on ANY movie or TV show. "Sauce for the goose" and other clichés apply.

 

[RCAM]

If you're not allowed to criticize something without putting out a "better" product in the same medium, then what's the point of a discussion forum? I find that notion very childish.

I say that as someone who enjoyed "The White Iris."

 

[The Cutest of Borg]

Wow, you're so lucky to be able to attend. I would have loved to hear the audience reactions during some of the scenes and of course attend the Q&A session. I'd be interested in reading what you have to share.

The premiere and panel were held in the main ballroom where the big-name guests speak. I couldn't even hazard a guess at how many people fit in the ballroom, but it was a little less than half full for the screening. As a reference, many of the presenters in years past have had similar attendance to what Continues had. The excitement level was pretty high in the ballroom. Vic came out and briefly introduced the episode, then they started the screening.

The dedication card at the beginning of the episode drew a reverent applause as Continues honored Leonard Nimoy. For the first half of the episode, the main lights were still on in the front of the ballroom, and the screen was pretty washed out. When they finally got the lights off, there was another round of applause. Vic was very apologetic about that technical snafu.

The vibe throughout the screening was very positive. People seemed to laugh at the right moments, and I could tell the audience was genuinely moved by the episode, especially during the last few minutes. Again there was a huge round of applause after the episode, and I saw a lot of people wiping tears from their eyes.

The cast and crew were then invited on-stage, and each person introduced themselves. While many of the questions were addressed to Vic, he made sure to direct some of those questions to the cast and crew. They all talked about Continues being a family, and you could really tell they love working together.

They showed the blooper reel and also a teaser for Episode 5 (which looks great, by the way). They also invited Sarai from Sarai Trek to talk about her role in the episode. They closed out the night by giving away and signing posters.

Overall, it was a great evening, and I'm really glad I got to be there for another chapter in Star Trek Continues history.

I can't seem to get the photo to display in-line, but here's a direct link to a shot of the panel.

 

[Amaris]

By Urban's "put up or shut up" standard almost one here is qualified to comment negatively on ANY movie or TV show. "Sauce for the goose" and other clichés apply.

Fortunately, I'm a world famous movie producer with many financially and critically successful films under my belt. This is 100% incontrovertible fact.

No followup questions, please.

 

[Timewalker]

STC has accomplished what most fan productions aspire to do, and where almost all fall short. That is, moving into the next season of the original show, with an almost seamless connection.

Yes, it has. It's amazing how authentic these episodes feel. I haven't seen an episode of real TOS in years, since I don't own any DVDs, don't get it on my basic cable, and it's not available on Netflix Canada. So these episodes of fan TOS are a real treat.

So, to all the detractors I say this: If you can do better, go for it.

Which is the stock lazy defensive comeback to critique.

Which is the stock passive-aggressive attack.

I have zero skin in this game. I just call it as I see it, and I like what I see.

So, do better or shut the hell up.

This is uncalled-for. Yes, some of the comments have been a bit picky, like the fabric of Rayna's dress or the color of her hair. The main thing is that the actress is a good likeness of the original actress, and the costume is a credible attempt to portray the original one. Same with the other actresses and their costumes. They're not perfect, but they are credible.

That said, people do have the right to criticize what they don't like, or what they do like but think could be improved.

Just because we're not all fan film producers, directors, writers, etc., that doesn't mean we don't have what it takes to have an opinion on what works/doesn't work. A pro author gave me that attitude some time ago - that if I wasn't paid to write Star Trek books, that meant I didn't have any right to criticize Star Trek books. Guess what - that author's books are no longer welcome on my book shelf, 'cause if I don't have the right to criticize what I read (whether positively or negatively), I sure as hell don't have the right to pay money for them, either. So I quit.

I hope this "put up or shut up" attitude re the fan films isn't intended to drive away people to that extent.

Personally, I look forward to every release from both productions (and from a number of others).

From my own perspective I think they each succeed in different ways. STC does some things better than NV/PII and vice versa. Neither is perfect, but they have both provided me with quality entertainment.

Agreed.

Aside from the things I've already mentioned, I did enjoy this episode, am recommending it to Star Trek fans on the other forums where I hang out, and look forward to the next one.

 

[USS Intrepid]

As a fanfilm producer, albeit one rather further down the food chain than those associated with Continues, I completely disagree with the idea that anyone should "put up or shut up."

Criticism is an absolutely essential part of the creative process. Constructive criticism, that is. We all know there are people out there who nitpick and attack and dismiss things just because they simply don't care for something, or agree with a particular choice. I have no time for that.

I'm not seeing any of that sort of petty sniping here. I am seeing people raising fair points.

Talking of fair points, this is the first episode of Continues I couldn't really get into. The script really didn't work for me, and I find myself agreeing with a number of the criticisms offered up thread.

I did find the scene with Sarai very touching though, and it's one that had a particular relevance to me.

I also thought the recreations of Miramanee, Edith Keeler and Rayna were very well done too.

As ever, I applaud the effort that went into this.

 

[northstar]

Vic could make his Kirk much more Shatnery if he wanted to, but I think he has so much respect for Shatner that he doesn't want his performance to be perceived as a parody.

Unfortunately, I think he fails. I think he would be much more convincing if he would not try to imitate Shatner so much. Everytime he does that, I am reminded that it is NOT Shatner - and get thrown out of the episode - up to a point where I have to laugh (so the parody element is there, but surely not intended).

 

[lurok]

Talking of fair points, this is the first episode of Continues I couldn't really get into. The script really didn't work for me, and I find myself agreeing with a number of the criticisms offered up thread.

Same here. There's something in the rhythm/tempo of some individual scenes - usually the more dialogue rather action-driven - which felt slightly off for me. Can't quite pin down whether it's an onset-directing or editing issue, or both. In the grand scheme it's a small thing, but just detracts from overall enjoyment for me.

That said, I'm always impressed by their great production values - especially cinematography and music - and I feel like the actors are beginning to inhabit their roles, esp. Haberkorn(?), who I enjoyed more in this episode than previous ones. Oh, and I'm not sure if she's appeared previously, but I thought the female helm was a great addition to cast and did a really nice job in small role.