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Spoilers STAR TREK BEYOND

Pike tells Kirk he has the chops to make it in the Fleet, and that they could use him.
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Watching yesterday, turns out "Eureka" used a similar device in an early season 5 (2012) episode.
 
I give it 8 out of 10. I want to see it again, wish there was more to the story about the villians. Loved the visuals of the Yorktown, brilliant! Good characterisations but Spock is getting more emotional, I had a lump in my throat every time Anton Yelchin was on the screen. The Jaylah character stole the show!
 
Seeing it tonight at 8pm. I do roll my eyes at how easy it is to apply for the Admiralty in the Star trek universe, you only need 5 years combat experience, they must be desparate!
My thinking is that in the Starfleet rankings, Vice Admiral is not that high. It's a desk job nominally one step higher than ship's captain.
 
Sean Heargraves posted on Facebook his designs for the Swarm ships.
He also mentioned that, at least in the early stages of the movie's development, the drones were callled the Baal
 
My thinking is that in the Starfleet rankings, Vice Admiral is not that high. It's a desk job nominally one step higher than ship's captain.
Starfleet claims to follow Terran Naval traditions. Vice Admiral is above Fleet Captain, Commodore and Rear Admiral and below Admiral (See Memory Alpha). Kirk applied for a flag officer position four roles above his post. The line was a ridiculous one to add to the script, they need a naval advisor on the show at least. As far as I know officers do not apply for roles, they gain rank either as a field commission or promoted by a superior officer. The line made as much sense as a nurse or paramedic applying for Dr McCoy's post as Chief Medical officer. I suppose having the audience swallow the ST09 plot from cadet to Captain, then they really think some of us are gnorant. Its a minor details but it makes Starfleet look like its run by a group of amateurs. Maybe it is.
 
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Starfleet claims to follow Terran Naval traditions. Vice Admiral is above Fleet Captain, Commodore and Rear Admiral and below Admiral (See Memory Alpha). Kirk applied for a flag officer position four roles above his post. The line was a ridiculous one to add to the script, they need a naval advisor on the show at least. As far as I know officers do not apply for roles, they gain rank either as a field commission or promoted by a superior officer. The line made as much sense as a nurse or paramedic applying for Dr McCoy's post as Chief Medical officer. I suppose having the audience swallow the ST09 plot from cadet to Captain, then they really think some of us are gnorant. Its a minor details but it makes Starfleet look like its run by a group of amateurs. Maybe it is.

I agree, i was shocked when I heard of that vice admiral bullshit! It's ridiculous. You can only get to that rank after many years in star fleet, That Kirk would even consider getting from captain to vice admiral in less than a couple of decades, is insane.
 
Starfleet claims to follow Terran Naval traditions. Vice Admiral is above Fleet Captain, Commodore and Rear Admiral and below Admiral (See Memory Alpha). Kirk applied for a flag officer position four roles above his post. The line was a ridiculous one to add to the script, they need a naval advisor on the show at least. As far as I know officers do not apply for roles, they gain rank either as a field commission or promoted by a superior officer. The line made as much sense as a nurse or paramedic applying for Dr McCoy's post as Chief Medical officer. I suppose having the audience swallow the ST09 plot from cadet to Captain, then they really think some of us are gnorant. Its a minor details but it makes Starfleet look like its run by a group of amateurs. Maybe it is.
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The next reboot movie at the end of the five year mission - Kirk is given the role of Fleet Admiral, Uhura runs Section 31, Spock is Federation President, McCoy runs a stripclub on Risa, Scotty and Keenser get married, and Sulu becomes a space pirate.
 
The next reboot movie at the end of the five year mission - Kirk is given the role of Fleet Admiral, Uhura runs Section 31, Spock is Federation President, McCoy runs a stripclub on Risa, Scotty and Keenser get married, and Sulu becomes a space pirate.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-eDvlBZ_qIYA/UA-BXoI1buI/AAAAAAAAAQg/FKXondG6I_c/s1600/Shore_Leave_446.jpg

[Converted to link. Pics posted as embedded images should be hosted on web space or an image-sharing account registered to you. - M']


:D
 
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Starfleet claims to follow Terran Naval traditions. Vice Admiral is above Fleet Captain, Commodore and Rear Admiral and below Admiral (See Memory Alpha). Kirk applied for a flag officer position four roles above his post. The line was a ridiculous one to add to the script, they need a naval advisor on the show at least. As far as I know officers do not apply for roles, they gain rank either as a field commission or promoted by a superior officer. The line made as much sense as a nurse or paramedic applying for Dr McCoy's post as Chief Medical officer. I suppose having the audience swallow the ST09 plot from cadet to Captain, then they really think some of us are gnorant. Its a minor details but it makes Starfleet look like its run by a group of amateurs. Maybe it is.

I agree, i was shocked when I heard of that vice admiral bullshit! It's ridiculous. You can only get to that rank after many years in star fleet, That Kirk would even consider getting from captain to vice admiral in less than a couple of decades, is insane.

It just doesn't matter. Starfleet is fiction, not bound by present day military protocols. The filmmakers simply use naval ranks as a template to show different levels of seniority. The minutiae of how actual ranks and promotions work is not important. I guarantee you the overwhelming majority of the audience neither knows enough or cares about such things beyond the very basics--captains are in charge of a ship; commander, lieutenant and ensigns are lower ranks; admirals are higher; half have no idea what a commodore is (isn't that an old home computer from the 80s?); and speed of promotion from one rank to another, along with how it's done is a mysterious thing. It's nice if the storytellers "get it right" but in the overall scheme, as long as the broad strokes are there, the rest is unimportant. These stories are aimed at the general audience (always have been), not the obsessive fan who can cite every Starfleet rule and regulation from memory. Simply not enough of the latter to matter.
 
I understand your argument but when any show uses aspects of 'real life' in a show they should at least get it right. Starfleet is fictional but the creators chose to use a 'real life' naval structure, they could have made up their own rank with its own fancy names e.g Legate Kirk instead of Captain Kirk and set it up that is common for anyone to apply to be captain of a star ship and forget having an Academy, just apply, pass the interview and hey presto you're in charge! From what I understand the original creators of Star Trek had miltary experience and respected the structure. The new lot are showing their ignorance. It is possible to entertain, respect some real life rules at the same time and still make money.
 
I'm not disagreeing with the idea of getting things right. If I were the filmmaker it would be important to me as well. But that's in an ideal world. And the reality is such perfectionism makes no positive difference to the bottom line. In some cases, it can have a negative effect. If realism interferes with drama, drama will ALWAYS win. Always has (just about) and that's not limited to Trek. Think of all the movies about contemporary military personnel. It's a very large set. How many do you think are "realistic" to the point of satisfying actual military personnel on that specific criterion? I'd wager a month's pay it would be fewer than one percent. Same with police procedurals, medical dramas, legal dramas and so on. Egregious deviations would be noticed. Minor ones? Only by those in the profession (and most of those would be forgiven by the majority of the profession in question). Trek's use of ranks and promotions falls into the category of minor, all the more so for being make believe. Thus, it doesn't matter to a sufficiently large number of people to worry about it (from their point of view).
 
Have we heard of any commodores in the JJverse?


Funny how Terran = U.S. in this argument. :lol:
1. Commodore Paris of the Yorktown, if Kirk got the Vice Admiral position he would have outranked her! Even Pike was 'just' a Rear Admiral.
2. yeah we know after First Contact the Earth was renamed USA lol (I think the US and GB naval ranks are similar?)
 
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Starfleet claims to follow Terran Naval traditions.
Starfleet has never actually claimed this, and it's pretty obvious that they DON'T. To begin with, the fact that Starfleet ORIGINATED from a non-military NASA-like organization in the first place and has no actual lineage to any navy anywhere, let alone the U.S. or British navies they have a tendency to imitate. So we don't actually know what it means to be an Admiral in Starfleet; it comes with rank, obviously, and probably a higher paycheck and the shifting of responsibilities from field work to desk job; it could, on the other hand, be an ELECTED position, and Kirk would only have gotten the job because nobody was running against him (Commodore Paris didn't want the job for some reason?)

As far as I know officers do not apply for roles, they gain rank either as a field commission or promoted by a superior officer.
Peter Principle: Officers continue to be promoted until they reach their level of incompetence, at which point they cease to be promoted because they are no longer capable of doing meaningful work.

I've always felt that Starfleet doesn't actually promote officers purely based on merit or experience, but that officers have to APPLY for promotion and have to actually prove they are qualified for their new position, like interviewing for a new job. This would explain 1) Why Harry Kim never got promoted (he simply didn't want to) and 2) why Spock was never given a command of his own (never applied for the position, and only promoted to "Captain" because it was required for his teaching position at the academy).

There are some holes in that theory of course, not least of which having to do with rank scale being tied with pay (like Morrow promoting Scotty to Captain is probably just his way of giving him a huge payraise) but it neatly solves the problem of "Hey, you're an excellent ace pilot, so now we're putting you in command of an aircraft carrier, with responsibilities that are totally alien to your skill set, because you're so awesome! Congratulations!"

The line made as much sense as a nurse or paramedic applying for Dr McCoy's post as Chief Medical officer.
Applying for a position and getting it are two different things. A paramedic with 20 years experience in a deep space colony could probably get the job faster than a 24 year old fresh out of med school who hasn't even finished his residency.

That's why I'm thinking it is probably based on an individualized assessment of aptitude, which Kirk would have to prove in order to take the position. He's obviously smart enough, arguably experienced enough, so nothing's stopping him from applying for the job. The only thing that would stop him from GETTING it is if someone more qualified applied for it, and it seems like the only person who fits the bill is Commodore Paris, who for whatever reason doesn't WANT the job.
 
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