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Spoilers STAR TREK BEYOND

It's amusing what a short memory fandom has. Just over a year ago, Tor.com posted an articled called "You Cannot Tell if Star Wars: Episode VII is Good or Bad from 90 Seconds of Footage." This was in response to the kneejerk reactions of people who were assuming The Force Awakens would be terrible based on the first teaser trailer, because they made the mistake of forgetting that it was just a tiny fraction of the actual film and thus couldn't reveal all that much of substance about it. In the months that followed, we saw more trailers and interviews and articles that let us learn more about the film, and opinions changed for the better. And now the film itself is earning mostly positive reviews. But here we are, just fifty-some weeks later, and fans are rushing to judgment all over again about the Trek teaser. It's like fans have the memory of the proverbial goldfish. They're making the same unreasonable assumption that a tiny sliver of the film's content tells them everything about it. (Even though we already have a couple of great interviews from Lin and Pegg that make the film sound much richer and deeper than the trailer suggested.)

We've built this whole culture around movie trailers as big events, to the point that we now have promos for teasers for trailers for movies. But what we need to remember is that, bottom line, trailers are just commercials. And commercials should never be taken too seriously or too literally.
 
This is perhaps the first star trek film I won't bother go seeing in the cinemas.

In fact I might boycott it altogether. What happens when you hire talentless director behind some of the worst films in recent history with record for making stupid films with same dull plot lines aimed at audience with low IQ.

If you combines fast and furious and space, what do you get ? I mesn if Paul Walker was still alive I'd sure he'd replace Chris Pine as a captain Kirk, and that one liner actor Vin Diesel as Scotty and first officer and the science officer all in one.
That's an odd garble of a post. How many Lin directed projects have you seen? What were their plot lines and why were they dull?

Why do you assume Walker and Diesel would be cast as Kirk and Scotty/Spock? Its not like Lin cast them in the F&F films. Like Pine in Star Trek, they were part of the franchise before Lin directed his first F&F film, a film they weren't part of outside of a cameo by Diesel at the end.


Clearly you'll watch the next Star Trek film no matter what, and than day later bitch how bad it was. I guess if you like simple and sterile plots, than yeah you'll love this one, however don't expect all fans of star trek to spend their money on this piece of trash.

As to Justin Lin's directorial qualities one can't but wonder, wtf !!!


http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0510912/?ref_=tt_ov_dr

I wouldn't let this director direct Tesco's Xmas Ad let alone a $150 million film. Perhaps he is Asian and this might open Asian market was the thinking, however many fans won't bother seeing this film, me included.


This is perhaps the first star trek film I won't bother go seeing in the cinemas.

In fact I might boycott it altogether.
:vulcan:

Should we alert the media?

Couldn't care what you do, I know I won't bee watching it.
 
This is perhaps the first star trek film I won't bother go seeing in the cinemas.

In fact I might boycott it altogether.
:vulcan:

Should we alert the media?

Couldn't care what you do, I know I won't bee watching it.
Deep, slow breaths, dude. Relax. It's just a movie. If you don't feel like watching it, then don't; it's entirely up to you. No one is keeping score, one way or the other, so dramatic announcements like the above are just pointless showboating.

Also, this?
Clearly you'll watch the next Star Trek film no matter what, and than day later bitch how bad it was. I guess if you like simple and sterile plots, than yeah you'll love this one, however don't expect all fans of star trek to spend their money on this piece of trash.
Don't do that.

Speak to the substance of what someone says, but leave the personal insinuations and the put-downs out of it - they're completely unnecessary, they add nothing of value to any discussion, and I don't want to see them here.
 
Clearly you'll watch the next Star Trek film no matter what, and than day later bitch how bad it was. I guess if you like simple and sterile plots, than yeah you'll love this one, however don't expect all fans of star trek to spend their money on this piece of trash.
Clearly you are not familiar with my posting history. I don't really do the bitching thing. :lol: Nor do I expect all Trek fans to like what I like. Yes, I'm willing to give any new Trek product a chance. I'm not going to dismiss it outright based on one 90 second teaser.

As to Justin Lin's directorial qualities one can't but wonder, wtf !!!


http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0510912/?ref_=tt_ov_dr
So you've seen these films and can tell me why they don't work? Care to share?

I wouldn't let this director direct Tesco's Xmas Ad let alone a $150 million film. Perhaps he is Asian and this might open Asian market was the thinking, however many fans won't bother seeing this film, me included.
And this is based on what? Are you going to articulate why or continue give vague answers. Yes Lin is Asian, but I doubt they are going to turn over a "$150 million film" that's studio tent pole, to him based on race. The fact his films have been very profitable are probably why they have confidence in him. Studios like Paramount are in the business of making money.
 
I wouldn't let this director direct Tesco's Xmas Ad let alone a $150 million film. Perhaps he is Asian and this might open Asian market was the thinking, however many fans won't bother seeing this film, me included.
And this is based on what? Are you going to articulate why or continue give vague answers. Yes Lin is Asian, but I doubt they are going to turn over a "$150 million film" that's studio tent pole, to him based on race.
Also, had the studio been interested in "opening the Asian market," one might suppose they'd choose a director who has produced a body of work in Asia, rather than one who grew up in Anaheim (Orange County, Southern California,) attended film school at UCLA, and has done the bulk of his film work in the United States and in other places which are not Asia.
 
Clearly you'll watch the next Star Trek film no matter what, and than day later bitch how bad it was. I guess if you like simple and sterile plots, than yeah you'll love this one, however don't expect all fans of star trek to spend their money on this piece of trash.

From Google:
When comparing one thing with another you may find that one is more appealing “than” another. “Than” is the word you want when doing comparisons. But if you are talking about time, choose “then“: “First you separate the eggs; then you beat the whites.” Alexis is smarter than I, not “then I.”

Merry Christmas. :)
 
I wouldn't let this director direct Tesco's Xmas Ad let alone a $150 million film. Perhaps he is Asian and this might open Asian market was the thinking, however many fans won't bother seeing this film, me included.
And this is based on what? Are you going to articulate why or continue give vague answers. Yes Lin is Asian, but I doubt they are going to turn over a "$150 million film" that's studio tent pole, to him based on race.
Also, had the studio been interested in "opening the Asian market," one might suppose they'd choose a director who has produced a body of work in Asia, rather than one who grew up in Anaheim (Orange County, Southern California,) attended film school at UCLA, and has done the bulk of his film work in the United States and in other places which are not Asia.

Well said, M'Sharak.

I might also add that we haven't really seen what Justin Lin can do outside the F&F franchise. I personally have seen his first film, Better Luck Tomorrow (in an 'Asian Americans in Film' class back in college) which featured John Cho as a privileged Korean-American from Southern California. I think the movie also featured Sung Kang, who turned up in the F&F movies.

I was eager to see what Lin could do with the Terminator franchise, which turned out to be Terminator: Salvation at the time which turned out to not be any salvation for the audience but I digress....

I want to see what he does with the Trek franchise. If this makes bucko bucks...I'm sure he'll be asked to do a fourth film.
 
And this is based on what? Are you going to articulate why or continue give vague answers. Yes Lin is Asian, but I doubt they are going to turn over a "$150 million film" that's studio tent pole, to him based on race.
Also, had the studio been interested in "opening the Asian market," one might suppose they'd choose a director who has produced a body of work in Asia, rather than one who grew up in Anaheim (Orange County, Southern California,) attended film school at UCLA, and has done the bulk of his film work in the United States and in other places which are not Asia.

Well said, M'Sharak.

I might also add that we haven't really seen what Justin Lin can do outside the F&F franchise. I personally have seen his first film, Better Luck Tomorrow (in an 'Asian Americans in Film' class back in college) which featured John Cho as a privileged Korean-American from Southern California. I think the movie also featured Sung Kang, who turned up in the F&F movies.

I was eager to see what Lin could do with the Terminator franchise, which turned out to be Terminator: Salvation at the time which turned out to not be any salvation for the audience but I digress....

I want to see what he does with the Trek franchise. If this makes bucko bucks...I'm sure he'll be asked to do a fourth film.
Indeed.

Regardless of my feelings on the F&F franchise, Lin is a successful director handling large and small projects, and producing what the studio wants. He can handle large ensemble casts which is more like Star Trek now, so that is a big plus.

He also has a personal interest in Star Trek, which has been oft lamented about Abrams.

This film is still in the "too early to judge" stage at this point, including Justin Lin. His IMDB has plenty of variety in film and different genres, not just F&F. I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
If the warp reactor does produce these things (seems to happen only when convenient to plot), I imagine they would normally be contained by an electromagnetic field, perhaps even channelled back into the reaction or diverted to power other systems on the ship.
Again, though, that's not how physics works. EM fields can only deflect charged particles. Gamma rays are photons, which are electrically neutral. EM fields have no ability to contain or deflect EM radiation. Only a material substance of some kind can absorb gamma-ray photons...

Does a warp reactor emit gamma radiation? The only possible citation I could find in Memory Alpha was "The damaged warp core of Tieran's Ilari starship leaked drive plasma and gamma radiation. (VOY: "Warlord")" That warp core was not Starfleet tech.
Besides, I'm pretty sure all gamma rads would be contained by a phlebotinum field filtered through a maguffin matrix. ;)
 
I don't care how good or bad the trailer was, good Trek isn't boring/zero action Trek, good Trek is thinking Trek.

You can't possibly tell whether or not a film is very thoughtful from a teaser targeted towards a larger, more casual demographic of moviegoers.

The problem with Star Trek '09 wasn't action, it was that it wasn't very thoughtful. I still think it's a great film other than that though, the rest made up for it. The problem with Into Darkness wasn't action, it was that it had bad, messy writing.

Beyond has a great writer in Simon Pegg who is a classic Trek fan and has said that this film will be more about the characters and examining humanity, exactly what we need out of a Trek movie IMO. You pair that script with a great action director in Justin Lin, and well, it starts to sound very good on paper.

While the teaser did dampen my hopes a little, I still think this film has potential to be as good as any Trek film yet, making up for the mistakes of the last movie. You really can't judge it from the little footage we've gotten.

Even seeing Pegg's reaction to it was enough to make up for any disappointment I've had and more. I'm excited!
 
Does a warp reactor emit gamma radiation?

*sigh* I've already gone into this in detail. Canonically, a warp reactor is a matter-antimatter reactor. When matter and antimatter react, the output is gamma-ray photons, neutrinos, and pions (which decay into muons which decay into electrons and more neutrinos). That is what reacting matter and antimatter does. You might as well be asking "Does a breathing person produce carbon dioxide?" or "Does a fire emit heat?" It can't not do that.


Besides, I'm pretty sure all gamma rads would be contained by a phlebotinum field filtered through a maguffin matrix. ;)
And, again, that's my problem with too much mass-media SF -- the reliance on made-up gibberish when real science is so much more handy and interesting and useful. If you're going to write a story set in Paris, you don't make up random architecture and geography and language and culture. You don't claim that the Eiffel Tower is ten miles tall and made of pasta and located on the banks of the Nile River, just across from Antarctica. You do the homework to find out what Paris is really like and you use that in your story. Research and verisimilitude are basic to conscientious writing in any field, not just science fiction. Yet for some reason, the people who write science fiction in film and television tend to assume it's a license to be lazy and lower their standards as writers -- to ignore what we know for a fact about how the world works and just make up random BS that's just as gratuitous and nonsensical as the 10-mile-high Noodle Tower.

And in so doing, they're limiting themselves needlessly, because real science is so damn interesting and is a great source of ideas. People who only know what's been done in past SF movies and shows just keep rehashing the same old tired tropes over and over. People who write informed, well-researched science fiction, on the other hand, are able to introduce fascinating new ideas and possibilities suggested by real research, things that nobody could ever have imagined otherwise. Real science is a resource, not a limitation. Ignoring it is what limits writers. Imagination is only as good as its source material. The less you know, the less you have to build on.

Although, to be fair, Gene Roddenberry did at least try to ground ST in verisimilitude, consulting with engineers and researchers and scientists, and then making dramatic concessions where he felt it appropriate. Heck, that's why warp engines are powered by matter-antimatter annihilation at all, rather than some made-up magic crystal. (The made-up magic crystals are just to channel the power, except in "The Alternative Factor," which was incredibly stupid.) And designers like Jefferies and Probert and Sternbach had a good grasp of science and engineering and brought that to their designs, though again there was some bending of reality for dramatic convenience. So you have the realism of a matter-antimatter power source for a starship engine combined with the unrealism of the reactor being planted right in the middle of an inhabited, pressurized section of the ship, because it's more visually interesting and dramatically convenient to be able to see the engine pulsing with energy or flickering wildly if it's malfunctioning. But it's still a deliberate compromise of realism. I'd like to think there could've been a way to shift the balance more toward realism while still maintaining the visual interest. Hence my suggestion of the core being behind a thick, tinted window.
 
As to Justin Lin's directorial qualities one can't but wonder, wtf !!!


http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0510912/?ref_=tt_ov_dr
His credits include directing Better Luck Tomorrow, a critically-acclaimed crime film (Peter Travers of Rolling Stone wrote "Lin is a talent to watch. There's a sting to this film that gets to you." Roger Ebert in the Chicago Sun-Times wrote that the film was a "disturbing and skillfully-told parable about growing up in today's America" and that Lin "reveals himself as a skilled and sure director."), as well as two of the best and actually good films in the Fast & Furious franchise. He revitalized the series from your usual street racing shlock to fun heist films.

I'll take the word of actual critics over some guy who made up his mind after reading his film credits on IMDb.

I guess you could say, his "directorial qualities" seem to be *ahem* Beyond you :techman:
 
If you're going to write a story set in Paris, you don't make up random architecture and geography and language and culture. You don't claim that the Eiffel Tower is ten miles tall and made of pasta and located on the banks of the Nile River, just across from Antarctica. You do the homework to find out what Paris is really like and you use that in your story.

Well, yes...because Paris is a real place. Warp drives are not. It's science-fiction. You seem to be forgetting or willfully ignoring the fiction part because of some vendetta against fun.

Star Trek isn't a scientific journal. It's not peer reviewed. It's drama. Drama takes license all the time with inconsequential stuff like the shielding of the warp core because it doesn't fucking matter.

Here's other things that would be accurate but would also ruin the plots.

Jack Bauer stuck in traffic on the 405.
Han Solo getting a headache.
Dr. Frankenstein getting his license revoked because of serious ethical concerns.
Don Draper getting herpes.
Walter White getting arrested in the third episode of Breaking Bad.
 
Well, yes...because Paris is a real place. Warp drives are not. It's science-fiction. You seem to be forgetting or willfully ignoring the fiction part because of some vendetta against fun.

On the contrary. Real science is great fun. The things you can discover about the universe by studying science are enormously more freaky and fascinating than the stuff made up by writers who just rehash old tropes from the limited amount of sci-fi cinema they've been exposed to. Have you seen the photos New Horizon sent back from Pluto? No moviemaker has ever imagined anything that bizarre.

And warp drives may not exist in practice, but the physics they're based on is entirely real. The idea of warping space is an outgrowth of the equations of General Relativity. This is the thing about physics -- everything in the universe is governed by the same laws, and you can learn about how one thing works -- even a hypothetical thing we haven't observed in reality -- by understanding how related phenomena work. That's part of why science is so damn fun -- because it's amazing to discover how everything is interconnected and how you can extrapolate the movement of galaxies from the fall of an apple. This is why knowledge enhances the imagination -- because that process of extrapolation can lead you to possibilities you never would have found otherwise. It's more fun because you have more toys to play with, and because you can use those toys to show you where you can find even more toys that you never would've imagined on your own.

And I am so sick of the nonsensical argument that "It's fiction" means "It isn't based on anything real." What about detective fiction? Detectives are real. What about historical fiction? What about "Based on a true story?" Even stories about imaginary characters are still based on things that really exist, like doctors and lawyers and cops and families and schools. "Science fiction" doesn't mean "Stories about stuff that doesn't exist." It means fiction about science, in the same way that historical fiction is fiction about history or mystery fiction is fiction about solving mysteries. And science is a process of discovery based on evidence, reason, and extrapolation. Science fiction is fiction about hypothetical advances in science and their impact on the world. Sometimes those advances are imaginary and nonsensical, but there is a whole genre of hard science fiction in which those advances are grounded in real theory and logical extrapolation. I should know; it's the genre I personally write. So it is a complete fallacy to claim that the absence of plausibility is part of the definition of "science fiction."

As I've already said, there is certainly room for fanciful sci-fi like Star Wars or Flash Gordon. There's nothing wrong with such things existing. But they are very far from being the only flavor of speculative fiction. This is the problem with mass-media SF -- what exists in film and television is only a very narrow, extremely limited cross-section of what the true potential of the genre is. Try reading what's out there in print and you'll be amazed at what you've been missing. What's on film and TV barely scratches the surface. And it tends to be biased heavily in favor of the "softer" varieties of SF, so it's far from a representative sample. It doesn't have as much variety as what's in print, and whatever your personal preferences, surely you can agree that it would be good to have more variety to satisfy a wider range of audience tastes.

And fortunately we are starting to see that happen. There's a trend in recent years to put more hard SF onscreen. We've had Gravity, Europa Report, Interstellar, and The Martian in the past couple of years, and Syfy has just premiered The Expanse, which is unusually hard-SF by TV standards. So this is something that does exist, that is a valid alternative form of science fiction in print, and that is finally starting to become more prominent onscreen. Of course it shouldn't replace the more fanciful stuff like Star Wars and Doctor Who, but it's good that the alternatives can coexist, which is what I've been saying all along. It's nonsense to say that only one category of SF should be allowed and that anyone who wants something different is wrong. SF is a rich, diverse genre that film and TV have failed in the past to exploit to its fullest potential; but fortunately, they're finally starting to catch up.
 
Jack Bauer stuck in traffic on the 405.
Han Solo getting a headache.
Dr. Frankenstein getting his license revoked because of serious ethical concerns.
Don Draper getting herpes.
Walter White getting arrested in the third episode of Breaking Bad.

Bond should really have died of an STI at this point, nevermind the constant exposure to bullets and radiation. Some of that from his own damn car. :lol:
 
Well, yes...because Paris is a real place. Warp drives are not. It's science-fiction. You seem to be forgetting or willfully ignoring the fiction part because of some vendetta against fun.

On the contrary. Real science is great fun. The things you can discover about the universe by studying science are enormously more freaky and fascinating than the stuff made up by writers who just rehash old tropes from the limited amount of sci-fi cinema they've been exposed to. Have you seen the photos New Horizon sent back from Pluto? No moviemaker has ever imagined anything that bizarre.

And warp drives may not exist in practice, but the physics they're based on is entirely real. The idea of warping space is an outgrowth of the equations of General Relativity. This is the thing about physics -- everything in the universe is governed by the same laws, and you can learn about how one thing works -- even a hypothetical thing we haven't observed in reality -- by understanding how related phenomena work. That's part of why science is so damn fun -- because it's amazing to discover how everything is interconnected and how you can extrapolate the movement of galaxies from the fall of an apple. This is why knowledge enhances the imagination -- because that process of extrapolation can lead you to possibilities you never would have found otherwise. It's more fun because you have more toys to play with, and because you can use those toys to show you where you can find even more toys that you never would've imagined on your own.

And I am so sick of the nonsensical argument that "It's fiction" means "It isn't based on anything real." What about detective fiction? Detectives are real. What about historical fiction? What about "Based on a true story?" Even stories about imaginary characters are still based on things that really exist, like doctors and lawyers and cops and families and schools. "Science fiction" doesn't mean "Stories about stuff that doesn't exist." It means fiction about science, in the same way that historical fiction is fiction about history or mystery fiction is fiction about solving mysteries. And science is a process of discovery based on evidence, reason, and extrapolation. Science fiction is fiction about hypothetical advances in science and their impact on the world. Sometimes those advances are imaginary and nonsensical, but there is a whole genre of hard science fiction in which those advances are grounded in real theory and logical extrapolation. I should know; it's the genre I personally write. So it is a complete fallacy to claim that the absence of plausibility is part of the definition of "science fiction."

As I've already said, there is certainly room for fanciful sci-fi like Star Wars or Flash Gordon. There's nothing wrong with such things existing. But they are very far from being the only flavor of speculative fiction. This is the problem with mass-media SF -- what exists in film and television is only a very narrow, extremely limited cross-section of what the true potential of the genre is. Try reading what's out there in print and you'll be amazed at what you've been missing. What's on film and TV barely scratches the surface. And it tends to be biased heavily in favor of the "softer" varieties of SF, so it's far from a representative sample. It doesn't have as much variety as what's in print, and whatever your personal preferences, surely you can agree that it would be good to have more variety to satisfy a wider range of audience tastes.

And fortunately we are starting to see that happen. There's a trend in recent years to put more hard SF onscreen. We've had Gravity, Europa Report, Interstellar, and The Martian in the past couple of years, and Syfy has just premiered The Expanse, which is unusually hard-SF by TV standards. So this is something that does exist, that is a valid alternative form of science fiction in print, and that is finally starting to become more prominent onscreen. Of course it shouldn't replace the more fanciful stuff like Star Wars and Doctor Who, but it's good that the alternatives can coexist, which is what I've been saying all along. It's nonsense to say that only one category of SF should be allowed and that anyone who wants something different is wrong. SF is a rich, diverse genre that film and TV have failed in the past to exploit to its fullest potential; but fortunately, they're finally starting to catch up.

tl;dr

Are you working on any screenplays?

'Cuz if not, you should. Instead of telling us about how things should be in the movies and stuff.

Just sayin'.
 
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