Spoilers STAR TREK BEYOND

[Franklin]

Agreed. Why not have a couple of Starfleet captains working together, trying to solve a problem, and the problem just keeps escalating?

What ever happened to the "rumor" that there would be a (female?) Starfleet captain in the film? Perhaps this is her crashed ship, and the Enterprise is on a rescue mission.

Maybe this is one of those "starfleet ship wanders into a someone else's war and becomes a casualty" stories -- Boutella's character's race versus Elba's character's race.

I do remember rumors of a character like that (a female captain that would match wits with Kirk) earlier this year, around the same time as rumors were going around of McCoy's ex-wife appearing, and that Bryan Cranston was in talks to be the villain.

Obviously the Cranston thing never happened. However, even though she's not in Starfleet gear, there's still no reason to believe Boutella can't be the captain of a ship (and not necessarily the crashed one) and isn't just a native of the planet where a ship has crashed. For all we know, Lydia Wilson was added to be McCoy's ex, but I doubt it.

 

[Mudd]

They don't need a second heroic captain in a movie - they need an antagonist for Kirk.

This.

Do they?

Yes. They do.

This is being released next July.

It's a big, big action movie.

There had better be serious ass-kicking.

 

[CorporalClegg]

You mean a bunch of talking heads standing around debating a social issue the rest of the world moved on from in 1994 isn't going to cut it?

 

[eyeresist]

First peek at more stuff being built.

The fact that at least two massive outdoor built sets are involved is intriguing. Surely this is a first for Trek?

http://www.filmdivider.com/8704/the...ots-of-new-women-to-a-bryan-cranston-villain/

At the moment, the plan is to introduce at least three major new female characters. One of these will be the captain of another Federation ship, the second will be the President of the United Federation of Planets,

If they are well into the five year mission, I think the Fed Pres being involved is unlikely.

I don't know... it's entirely possible these rumours were connected to Orci's rejected script, or that the "source" just made it all up.

However, the "Kirk vs. antagonist" formula has all invariably been about vengeance. That's the tired old formula that's existed in the movies, from Khan to Kruge to Chang to Shinzon to Nero to Khan again.

Hell, I'd have been perfectly happy had "Into Darkness" had Kirk ally with Khan to defeat Marcus. But it just turned into Khan seeks revenge after they board the Vengeance.

In TWOK and ST09 the villain's motive was revenge, but Kruge was trying to steal Genesis, Chang was sabotaging peace talks, Shinzon wanted a cure and a glorious victory. In STID, Khan attacks and kills Marcus fairly quickly; his conflict with Kirk is really just an extended battle sequence; he has no major personal beef with Kirk, who was just a tool in his plan.

 

[Christopher]

In TWOK and ST09 the villain's motive was revenge, but Kruge was trying to steal Genesis, Chang was sabotaging peace talks, Shinzon wanted a cure and a glorious victory.

Well, Shinzon did have a personal vendetta against Picard. He felt that as a copy of Picard, he was overshadowed as long as the original existed, and thus felt he had to destroy Picard and undo his achievements before he could feel like a real live boy. "Then the echo will become the voice." Not quite revenge in the conventional sense, since Picard didn't actually do anything to earn Shinzon's ire beyond simply existing. But still a vendetta.

Soran in Generations wasn't motivated by revenge. He just wanted to get back to the Nexus and be reunited with his wife, and didn't care how many people he killed to achieve that end. And Lursa and B'Etor wanted Soran's trilithium weapon in order to conquer the Klingon Empire. They wanted power, not revenge.

Let's see, who was driven by revenge or a personal vendetta? Khan, against Kirk. Kirk, against the Klingons, though he didn't act on it. Ru'afo, against the Ba'ku. Shinzon, against Picard and separately against the Romulans. Nero, against Spock and the Federation. Other Khan, against Marcus, though that was as much self-defense (with "self" encompassing his people) as revenge. That's not really all that many.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Let's see, who was driven by revenge or a personal vendetta? Khan, against Kirk. Kirk, against the Klingons, though he didn't act on it. Ru'afo, against the Ba'ku. Shinzon, against Picard and separately against the Romulans. Nero, against Spock and the Federation. Other Khan, against Marcus, though that was as much self-defense (with "self" encompassing his people) as revenge. That's not really all that many.

Sometimes, I'd like to live in a universe where 50% of something wasn't all that many.

You've cited characters in six of twelve films to date. How is that "not really all that many"?

 

[eyeresist]

Let's see, who was driven by revenge or a personal vendetta? Khan, against Kirk. Kirk, against the Klingons, though he didn't act on it. Ru'afo, against the Ba'ku. Shinzon, against Picard and separately against the Romulans. Nero, against Spock and the Federation. Other Khan, against Marcus, though that was as much self-defense (with "self" encompassing his people) as revenge. That's not really all that many.

Sometimes, I'd like to live in a universe where 50% of something wasn't all that many.

You've cited characters in six of twelve films to date. How is that "not really all that many"?

Several of these are highly debatable. Kirk may have hated the Klingons, and Shinzon the same for Picard and his Romulan overlords, but these weren't the basis for their actions in the movies. I mean, Kirk's only actual action against the Klingons is battling someone who has conspired to kill the Federation president. At no point in TUC could you say Kirk is acting in a vengeful way.

Khan 2.0 gets revenge on Marcus, but that is separate from his dealings with Kirk, the hero of the story.

 

[photon70]

Yes. They do.

This is being released next July.

It's a big, big action movie.

There had better be serious ass-kicking.

Judging by the amount of outdoor set construction, there'll be a whole of of butt kicking and we could be in for an almighty ending.



To date, we know that there'll be a starship down, a 'vertical' alien city, Boutella could be a good guy / bad guy alien; Elba could be a good guy / bad guy human(?); Kirk/Chekov/Scotty on an away mission; Bones and Spock on the ship.

I wonder how much the final budget will be. I doubt it's less than $160m at this stage.

I hope Pegg & Jung haven't gone for the easy option of showing another lousy Starfleet Captain just so Kirk will look good.

Someone with an honest motivation, that inadvertently hurts another species, would be interesting.

 

[Trekkin]

Isn't that what Dougherty was meant to be? Well intentioned, but ignorant and a bit dumb?

Let's see, who was driven by revenge or a personal vendetta? Khan, against Kirk. Kirk, against the Klingons, though he didn't act on it. Ru'afo, against the Ba'ku. Shinzon, against Picard and separately against the Romulans. Nero, against Spock and the Federation. Other Khan, against Marcus, though that was as much self-defense (with "self" encompassing his people) as revenge. That's not really all that many.

Sometimes, I'd like to live in a universe where 50% of something wasn't all that many.

You've cited characters in six of twelve films to date. How is that "not really all that many"?

Several of these are highly debatable. Kirk may have hated the Klingons, and Shinzon the same for Picard and his Romulan overlords, but these weren't the basis for their actions in the movies. I mean, Kirk's only actual action against the Klingons is battling someone who has conspired to kill the Federation president. At no point in TUC could you say Kirk is acting in a vengeful way.

Khan 2.0 gets revenge on Marcus, but that is separate from his dealings with Kirk, the hero of the story.

Except for telling Spock (who was organising the venture) to let the Klingons die.

He was basically wishing death on a race, and possibly trying to convince Spock to feel the same. It was a petty, useless attempt at vengeance (and certainly no where near Khan's level) but a vengeful action nonetheless.

And beating the crap out of the Finnegan hallucination for a) being annoying, and b) for the real one being annoying and embarrassing Kirk in the past - that was revenge too.

 

[Trekkin]

Oops. Double post.

 

[M'Sharak]

First peek at more stuff being built.

The fact that at least two massive outdoor built sets are involved is intriguing. Surely this is a first for Trek?

Not so sure. The 2009 film had both the Giant Space Drill set and the Delta Vega/"Kirk runs from ice planet monsters" set in the parking lot at Dodger Stadium. They may not have been quite as large as the "crashed starship" set, but they were not small. Then STID had the "space barge" set, the Nibiru forest set, and the volcano set, all constructed in a lot adjacent to Raleigh Studios' Playa del Rey location.

http://www.filmdivider.com/8704/the...ots-of-new-women-to-a-bryan-cranston-villain/

At the moment, the plan is to introduce at least three major new female characters. One of these will be the captain of another Federation ship, the second will be the President of the United Federation of Planets,

If they are well into the five year mission, I think the Fed Pres being involved is unlikely.

I don't know... it's entirely possible these rumours were connected to Orci's rejected script, or that the "source" just made it all up.

This report dates from sometime after it was announced that Simon Pegg had been assigned script-writing duties, but it sounds like whatever may have been the plan "at the moment" was only one of the ideas being kicked around in the preliminary stages of writing a new script, and it could well be that the parts of the story which involved a Federation President or woman starship captain ultimately ended up being replaced by something else.

Or the source could simply have made something up. It wouldn't be close to the first time we've seen that happen. **waves to AICN**

 

[eyeresist]

Kirk may have hated the Klingons, and Shinzon the same for Picard and his Romulan overlords, but these weren't the basis for their actions in the movies. I mean, Kirk's only actual action against the Klingons is battling someone who has conspired to kill the Federation president. At no point in TUC could you say Kirk is acting in a vengeful way.

Except for telling Spock (who was organising the venture) to let the Klingons die.

He was basically wishing death on a race, and possibly trying to convince Spock to feel the same. It was a petty, useless attempt at vengeance (and certainly no where near Khan's level) but a vengeful action nonetheless.

And beating the crap out of the Finnegan hallucination for a) being annoying, and b) for the real one being annoying and embarrassing Kirk in the past - that was revenge too.

But we're talking about plots based on vengeance motives, not minor character moments. Really we're getting off point, which is how many Trek movie plots are revenge-based - if the plot isn't initiated by a villain's desire for revenge, then it doesn't count.

 

[Amaris]

This.

Do they?

Yes. They do.

This is being released next July.

It's a big, big action movie.

There had better be serious ass-kicking.

I won't lie: I read that as "serious ass-kissing," and my mind went to darker places.

 

[Christopher]

You've cited characters in six of twelve films to date. How is that "not really all that many"?

Because I was responding to a claim that the villains in Trek movies were "all [but] invariably" driven by revenge. That's clearly not the case.

Villains driven by revenge/vendetta: Khan(s), Ru'afo, Shinzon, Nero.

Villains driven by other goals: Kruge (power), Sybok (religion), Klaa (to prove himself in battle), Sha Ka Ree Entity (conquest), Chang, Valeris, and Cartwright (preserving the status quo), Soran (reunion with wife), Lursa and B'Etor (power), the Borg Queen (assimilation), Admiral Marcus (fear of the Klingons). And I still say that STID Khan's primary motive was to save his people, with revenge as a secondary goal.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

You've cited characters in six of twelve films to date. How is that "not really all that many"?

Because I was responding to a claim that the villains in Trek movies were "all [but] invariably" driven by revenge. That's clearly not the case.

I missed that. There was a claim, quoted below, that most Trek films since TWOK employed the "vengeful villain trope." I didn't take it literally in the first place, but this claim isn't actually that far off anyway.

My guess is that Idris Elba plays the captain of that downed vessel and has done something naughty — Prime Directive violation? — on the planet that Kirk and company have to fix.

Oh, I hope not. That's rather a TOS cliche, and I'm hoping for something new.

Well, it'd certainly be refreshing after the vengeful villain trope that plagues most of the "Star Trek" films since TWOK.

 

[ralph]

First peek at more stuff being built.

The fact that at least two massive outdoor built sets are involved is intriguing. Surely this is a first for Trek?

Not so sure. The 2009 film had both the Giant Space Drill set and the Delta Vega/"Kirk runs from ice planet monsters" set in the parking lot at Dodger Stadium. They may not have been quite as large as the "crashed starship" set, but they were not small. Then STID had the "space barge" set, the Nibiru forest set, and the volcano set, all constructed in a lot adjacent to Raleigh Studios' Playa del Rey location.

http://www.filmdivider.com/8704/the...ots-of-new-women-to-a-bryan-cranston-villain/

If they are well into the five year mission, I think the Fed Pres being involved is unlikely.

I don't know... it's entirely possible these rumours were connected to Orci's rejected script, or that the "source" just made it all up.

This report dates from sometime after it was announced that Simon Pegg had been assigned script-writing duties, but it sounds like whatever may have been the plan "at the moment" was only one of the ideas being kicked around in the preliminary stages of writing a new script, and it could well be that the parts of the story which involved a Federation President or woman starship captain ultimately ended up being replaced by something else.

Or the source could simply have made something up. It wouldn't be close to the first time we've seen that happen. **waves to AICN**

I don´t know if these sets are the biggest, but there are, at least, three or four or five alien worlds: Stawamus Chief Provincial Park, Kent Hangar Camp, Richmond, Red Deer and Dubai. And Enterprise crew will be divided.

 

[Campe]

The fact that at least two massive outdoor built sets are involved is intriguing. Surely this is a first for Trek?

Not so sure. The 2009 film had both the Giant Space Drill set and the Delta Vega/"Kirk runs from ice planet monsters" set in the parking lot at Dodger Stadium. They may not have been quite as large as the "crashed starship" set, but they were not small. Then STID had the "space barge" set, the Nibiru forest set, and the volcano set, all constructed in a lot adjacent to Raleigh Studios' Playa del Rey location.

If they are well into the five year mission, I think the Fed Pres being involved is unlikely.

I don't know... it's entirely possible these rumours were connected to Orci's rejected script, or that the "source" just made it all up.

This report dates from sometime after it was announced that Simon Pegg had been assigned script-writing duties, but it sounds like whatever may have been the plan "at the moment" was only one of the ideas being kicked around in the preliminary stages of writing a new script, and it could well be that the parts of the story which involved a Federation President or woman starship captain ultimately ended up being replaced by something else.

Or the source could simply have made something up. It wouldn't be close to the first time we've seen that happen. **waves to AICN**

I don´t know if these sets are the biggest, but there are, at least, four alien worlds: Kent Hangar Camp, Richmond, Red Deer and Dubai. And Enterprise crew will be divided.

Could Kent Hangar, Richmond and Red Deer be the same though?

Regardless, it is pretty cool that this may be a film of epic scope where the crew is doing different pieces of the puzzle separately and they all come together in the end.

 

[Christopher]

Those could be different locations on the same alien world.

 

[ralph]

Those could be different locations on the same alien world.

Maybe. But Stawamus Chief Provincial Park is a forest (could be something linked Kent Hangar), Red Deer is a quarry, Dubai is a modern city in the middle of the desert. I don´t know about Richmond. Different environments in the same world? It could get very limited.
But I agree with Campe98, it could mean that they are coming back to TOS.

 

[Christopher]

Maybe. But Stawamus Chief Provincial Park is a forest (could be something linked Kent Hangar), Red Deer is a quarry, Dubai is a modern city in the middle of the desert. I don´t know about Richmond. Different environments.

Uhh, yes, and they're all on Earth. One planet can have a lot of different environments, no matter what Star Wars pretends.