Then, when things get tougher than tough, we call him in:
well told!
Spoilers STAR TREK BEYOND
- Thread starter Khan 2.0
- Start date
well told!
First peek at more stuff being built. Plus Idris Elba is happy with his Trek costume (making me think he's an alien and not a rogue Starfleet officer)
Do they? We've already had plenty of films that were the captain vs. an antagonist. That's not the only formula that exists. And it's not like we haven't had sympathetic captains in the movies before -- Terrell, Sulu, Donatra (eventually), Robau, Pike. Do you think TWOK would've been better if Terrell had been evil by his own choice, or that TUC would've been better if Sulu had been part of the conspiracy? Enmity is not the only possible relationship between two characters in a story. Heroes need allies as well as enemies.
Heck, alternate Kirk is Thor's son. Why shouldn't he get along with Heimdall?
He could be a Starfleet captain who dresses in a native outfit after his ship crashed...
But honestly, it could be anything.
Do they? We've already had plenty of films that were the captain vs. an antagonist. That's not the only formula that exists. And it's not like we haven't had sympathetic captains in the movies before -- Terrell, Sulu, Donatra (eventually), Robau, Pike. Do you think TWOK would've been better if Terrell had been evil by his own choice, or that TUC would've been better if Sulu had been part of the conspiracy? Enmity is not the only possible relationship between two characters in a story. Heroes need allies as well as enemies.
Heck, alternate Kirk is Thor's son. Why shouldn't he get along with Heimdall?
Having Sulu be part of the conspiracy would've been interesting and unexpected twist, and not as obvious as "oh hey she's new so she must be the villain" Valeris. That said, no, I didn't want Sulu to be part of the conspiracy.
However, the "Kirk vs. antagonist" formula has all invariably been about vengeance. That's the tired old formula that's existed in the movies, from Khan to Kruge to Chang to Shinzon to Nero to Khan again.
Hell, I'd have been perfectly happy had "Into Darkness" had Kirk ally with Khan to defeat Marcus. But it just turned into Khan seeks revenge after they board the Vengeance.
If Elba is the antagonist (and if he is also a Starfleet captain), then I'd like him to be motivated by something other than the need for revenge or to make war. And who's to say that he'd be a straight out villain. An antagonist doesn't have to be just a mustache twirling opponent. And I'm ready for a more complicated antagonist in a "Star Trek" film, whose motivations are clearly not about payback.
Or Elba starts off as an antagonist, Kirk understands the complication of the character's situation and they both work together to get out of trouble. It's all speculation at this point.
Regardless, Kirk needs an antagonist, someone or something for him to overcome — be it another starship Captain, a mistake he made 15 years ago, a NASA probe seeking its creator, a probe looking for whales, or a Shakespeare-blathering Klingon. He also needs to be the hero of the movie, driving the action and making the decisive decisions, unlike the climaxes of TMP and TWOK where Kirk makes no real decision and allows other characters to make it for him (Decker and Spock, respectively).
I hope that regardless of whether Elba ends up being a Starfleet Captain or a native, he ends up being a more complex villain than we've seen in awhile. Someone who actually believes what he's doing is right as opposed to doing what he does because EVIIIILL! 
One can make the argument that Marcus blurred those lines in STID. But to me, he really came off more moustache twirly with his "AND WHO'S GOING TO STOP ME? YOU?!?!"
Plus, ya know... stop killing the villains. Talk about cliche.
One can make the argument that Marcus blurred those lines in STID. But to me, he really came off more moustache twirly with his "AND WHO'S GOING TO STOP ME? YOU?!?!"
Plus, ya know... stop killing the villains. Talk about cliche.
Yeah, he may have thought he was doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, but in a paranoid and warmongering way, much the same as Cartwright and Valeris in TUC. He didn't come across as nuanced, just fanatical. Most villains think they're doing the right thing, but it's only really nuanced if we can see merit in their positions.
They didn't kill Khan this time...
True. But he was put on... ice.
I'm not saying the destruction of the Kelvin archives, the attack on the Daystrom room and crashing the Vengeance into San Francisco were right or excusable. Far from it in fact. But none of this would have happened if it weren't for Marcus.
Marcus was the "big bad" of STID. Khan's actions were reactionary to Marcus' warmongering and paranoia.
I really hope so. I'd love for Trek to continue in this format every few years.
Yeah, I don't think he's Starfleet. I do think he may be the one who shot down that crashed ship.
And another big ole elaborate outdoorsy set! The cheapening continues.
How is that cheapening? Building big elaborate sets costs money. Traveling to outdoors locations costs money. Building big elaborate sets in outdoors locations? Yeah, that probably costs a fair amount of money.
It greatly pains me to say this, but...I agree with Christopher.
Cheap? No, not cheap. This isn't Dogma-95, after all...
Yes, because the exteriors of Vulcan looked so much more realistic shot on a soundstage in Trek III than they did in the 2009 Trek which were shot on (an on Earth) location. Mmmhmmm.
Nearly always, as I'm a bit of a smart ass. Thought it would be obvious as exterior set construction is wildly expensive compared to its soundstage equivalent.
That's the only way the post made sense to me, too.
What ever happened to the "rumor" that there would be a (female?) Starfleet captain in the film? Perhaps this is her crashed ship, and the Enterprise is on a rescue mission.
Maybe this is one of those "starfleet ship wanders into a someone else's war and becomes a casualty" stories -- Boutella's character's race versus Elba's character's race.
I'm not sure that ever rose above the level of idle speculation.
Edit: I take that back - it was reported, but the source of the rumor was not identified.
http://www.slashfilm.com/new-star-trek-3-rumors-bryan-cranston/
http://www.filmdivider.com/8704/the...ots-of-new-women-to-a-bryan-cranston-villain/
FilmDivider said:
It greatly pains me to say this, but...I agree with Christopher.
Cheap? No, not cheap. This isn't Dogma-95, after all...
- Fails to register the sarcasm dripping from thumbtack's post
- Mildly insults Christopher in commenting on said post
- Wraps up by taking gratuitous swipe at something wholly unrelated to Star Trek
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