so, in his last name he is very politely ordering a sausage?
oh and 'hundsfut'
you do know that this means ' a dog's vagina' in German?
Spoilers STAR TREK BEYOND
- Thread starter Khan 2.0
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oh and 'hundsfut'
you do know that this means ' a dog's vagina' in German?
my point was precisely that. That maybe for the vulcans the family name (that we call last name) comes first (and thus that would be the first name) and the given name is the formal appropriate way to address someone.
maybe the vulcans don't make such distinctions between first and last names the way we do and when they refer to someone's name, they mean the complete one that includes both the family/clan name + given name.
exactly.
^Yeah, but my point is that we shouldn't call them "first" and "last" names at all in this context, since those aren't absolutes. To avoid confusion, we should call them the given name and the family name (or surname), and leave the ordinals out of it altogether. It's both confusing and ethnocentric to insist on using "first name" for a given name even in contexts where it doesn't come first.
Spock's Last Name would be a good name for a rock band.
I could see Uhura wanting to know Spock's family name and being told by Spock that it took his own mother years to be able to pronounce it. Being an expert linguist, Uhura would naturally take that as a challenge. I mean, if Uhura can't pronounce it, then it must be impossible for humans.
I could see Uhura wanting to know Spock's family name and being told by Spock that it took his own mother years to be able to pronounce it. Being an expert linguist, Uhura would naturally take that as a challenge. I mean, if Uhura can't pronounce it, then it must be impossible for humans.
Idris Elba confirmed!!! (and he's a Trekkie)
http://www.tv3.ie/xpose/article/entertainment-news/171713/Idris-Its-cool-to-be-a-Trekkie
http://www.tv3.ie/xpose/article/entertainment-news/171713/Idris-Its-cool-to-be-a-Trekkie
yay!Idris Elba confirmed!!! (and he's a Trekkie)
http://www.tv3.ie/xpose/article/entertainment-news/171713/Idris-Its-cool-to-be-a-Trekkie
Yes, of course. Elba is a fantastic choice.
This is a little off-topic (and I'm sure the topic's been done to death) but was Cumberbatch's Khan really a villain? I don't know. Was he an antagonist? Absolutely. He caused the destruction of the Kelvin archive, he was responsible for the death of Pike, he tried to destroy Starfleet Headquarters. In all of those cases, he did not act until he was provoked. Was he a terrorist? Yes. I think this is kind of a gray area which makes the character in that film all the more fascinating.
On the other hand, Marcus was just a mustache-twirling villain, showing his power, making Khan design weapons of mass destruction, building a ship in secret to start a war and not letting anyone get in his way. Separately, Khan and Kirk forced his hand.
Marcus was, to put it simply, a warmonger. Khan was just looking after his people.
On the other hand, Marcus was just a mustache-twirling villain, showing his power, making Khan design weapons of mass destruction, building a ship in secret to start a war and not letting anyone get in his way. Separately, Khan and Kirk forced his hand.
Marcus was, to put it simply, a warmonger. Khan was just looking after his people.
According to Spock, when he was in power he was committing mass genocide against beings that he deemed to be "inferior." And Khan makes reference to "continuing the work that we were doing before we were banished," which presumably was the same thing.
So yes, he was not a good guy. And Adm. Marcus wasn't really a mustache-twirler. He believed that war with the Klingon's was inevitable (a not unreasonable assumption either) and that it was better to start a war now while the Federation still had the advantage. All of the deaths that he caused were unfortunate but necessary "collateral damage" in his mind. Weller compared Marcus to Gen. Curtis Lemay, and it's a pretty apt comparison (his attitude towards the Klingons is not all that different from Lemay's attitude towards the Soviets/Chinese). He's a fanatic, but it's a fanaticism built out of fears that have a basis in reality.
So yes, he was not a good guy. And Adm. Marcus wasn't really a mustache-twirler. He believed that war with the Klingon's was inevitable (a not unreasonable assumption either) and that it was better to start a war now while the Federation still had the advantage. All of the deaths that he caused were unfortunate but necessary "collateral damage" in his mind. Weller compared Marcus to Gen. Curtis Lemay, and it's a pretty apt comparison (his attitude towards the Klingons is not all that different from Lemay's attitude towards the Soviets/Chinese). He's a fanatic, but it's a fanaticism built out of fears that have a basis in reality.
As far as their wrongdoings being central to the plot goes, I'd say Khan and Marcus were villains. Both strike me as more or less amoral, too.
The thing is, Khan would be a sympathetic character if he were at all reform-minded. He's not. He's willing to take personal advantage of the chaos Marcus wants to create. Marcus was the catalyst of it all, having set Khan down his path of seeking vengeance.
I'd say Richard Daystrom in "The Ultimate Computer" was an example of a non-villainous antagonist. Maybe that's what Elba will be (not Daystrom, but not villainous, either). As many Trek stories operated with otherwise decent but maybe flawed people like Daystrom driving the conflict as not. But I'd say Khan and Marcus were both pure villainous evil.
And Khan freely admitted that if he were allowed to run free, he and the rest of his gang would have continued the work they were originally doing - which involved the genocide of anyone who wasn't an Augment like them. You don't get much more evil than that.
Just because Marcus was the reason Khan did what he did in the film, or the fact that Khan cooperated - mostly - with Kirk in taking Marcus down, does not make Khan any less evil.
All very fair points.
I do hope that Elba is a little less of a villain than we've seen in nuTrek. I think the idea of someone who is doing the right thing while our crew does the right thing and their ideals clash is far more interesting than being...EVIL!!!
Agreed. I always thought the best TOS antagonists were never truly evil. But maybe things need to be less nuanced for a mainstream popular action movie, so I'm not holding my breath.
for what it is worth, true detective season 2 is beautifully directed. beyond is in the right hands
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