The only thing I agree with you is in the second movie the S/U scenes were a mistake not for the romance but for what they did with the couple.
Star Trek Beyond pays homage to TOS
- Thread starter Romulan_spy
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first of all it was not ground breaking for uhura to get with spock or a black woman to kiss a white man in 2009 in film.
we already had kevin and whitney from the bodyguard in 1992 which was bigger hit movie than star trek 2009 and zoe saldana in most of her films has white male love interests. In a futuristic movie, it is far from ground breaking because humans mix with aliens so it is more excepted in a futuristic movie and that is why it is far from ground breaking.
In Guardians of the galaxy one of the characters married and had kids with a pink lady and I did not see a lot of fans saying it was so grondbreaking and a good metaphor for interracial romances. For comic book fans it is already a norm to see different people get together so why will that be all of a sudden ground breaking in sci fi or space fantasy?
Spock is a hybrid and we see kirk about to have sex with a green skin lady so why would it be ground breaking for a BM/WM to be a couple in the same film?
I never said normal women can not have relationship, I said the S/U romance was badly handled in STID.
For me it just feel as if some people who are fans of the S/U romance , should their romance come to an end in Star Trek Beyond are willing to play the race card as a reason why the romance ended when race has nothing to do with it.
@Dales
I'm sorry, I'm not following your arguments at all. I liked the S/U dynamic in STID as it presented an actual conflict in the relationship rather than ignoring that facet of real relationships all together.
If they end up splitting up in Beyond, then I doubt race will be the rationale. I can't even begin to follow the reasons for that
I'm sorry, I'm not following your arguments at all. I liked the S/U dynamic in STID as it presented an actual conflict in the relationship rather than ignoring that facet of real relationships all together.
If they end up splitting up in Beyond, then I doubt race will be the rationale. I can't even begin to follow the reasons for that
It played like a real relationship to me in Into Darkness. Especially what went on in Mudd's ship. Relationship problems do always seem to crop up at the most inopportune time.
The Mudd scene would make more sense with the couple alone in a turbolift, walking the corridors or in one of their quarters. If my SO started to discuss our problems in front of my colleagues and my boss and wanna be best friend I would not appreciate it at all, even if I was in the wrong. Uhura came across as a whiny high school girl, actually IMO they all did, it was 'Enterprise 90210'.
I suppose it was not as bad as the 'lets appeal to immature teen boys' scene with Marcus and Kirk 
Re: s/u 'argument'
I bet that if the same scene was about kirk complaining that Spock had a death wish (and how that could possibly affect their mission too) and how he was being insensible towards him as a friend for trying to save him in the volcano, no one would complain about that. But of course the woman doing that, and with someone whom she has a relationship, is 'whiny'. Oh wait, Kirk already did 'complain' about Spock on several occasions (one to Uhura too, another even in front of their superior officer) and you don't see anyone criticizing him for that, ever. Which is not surprising since trek set a high standard when it comes to 'dudes complaining about Spock', in fact this is the aspect some fans love the most about Mccoy and want to see in the reboot too? (regardless if them having the same dynamic they had in tos would even make sense for this version of the characters)
yeah, Dales the original argument you have derailed (2/10 on the troll scale, & for the effort with those brilliant clueless examples of why racism in Hollywood is an urban legend for you ^) totally was about the 'race card'..except when, mine at least, was about possible sexism and the double standards for female characters.
I also find it amusing that it's since years (and it happened just the other day in another thread, for good timing) the 'more Mccoy' supporters are saying that they want s/u to split so that Mccoy can get more screen time and development through his relationships with Kirk and Spock..yet, God forbid someone dares to point up that it wouldn't be exactly nice, modern or progressive that the relationship(s) of the only female character with the main character(s) is toned down or sacrificed while the dynamics between the dudes are considered a given, get to be stronger..and basically 'bromances' with guys are never enough (see Pegg adding Kirk/Scotty and spock/Bones to the preexisting k/s and kirk/bones dynamics. But hey, Uhura interacts with Sulu who now is called Chekov) but the relationship with a woman is 'ot'.
I bet that if the same scene was about kirk complaining that Spock had a death wish (and how that could possibly affect their mission too) and how he was being insensible towards him as a friend for trying to save him in the volcano, no one would complain about that. But of course the woman doing that, and with someone whom she has a relationship, is 'whiny'. Oh wait, Kirk already did 'complain' about Spock on several occasions (one to Uhura too, another even in front of their superior officer) and you don't see anyone criticizing him for that, ever. Which is not surprising since trek set a high standard when it comes to 'dudes complaining about Spock', in fact this is the aspect some fans love the most about Mccoy and want to see in the reboot too? (regardless if them having the same dynamic they had in tos would even make sense for this version of the characters)
yeah, Dales the original argument you have derailed (2/10 on the troll scale, & for the effort with those brilliant clueless examples of why racism in Hollywood is an urban legend for you ^) totally was about the 'race card'..except when, mine at least, was about possible sexism and the double standards for female characters.
I also find it amusing that it's since years (and it happened just the other day in another thread, for good timing) the 'more Mccoy' supporters are saying that they want s/u to split so that Mccoy can get more screen time and development through his relationships with Kirk and Spock..yet, God forbid someone dares to point up that it wouldn't be exactly nice, modern or progressive that the relationship(s) of the only female character with the main character(s) is toned down or sacrificed while the dynamics between the dudes are considered a given, get to be stronger..and basically 'bromances' with guys are never enough (see Pegg adding Kirk/Scotty and spock/Bones to the preexisting k/s and kirk/bones dynamics. But hey, Uhura interacts with Sulu who now is called Chekov) but the relationship with a woman is 'ot'.
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I never said racism is an urban legend, you keep throwing shades at me. you also said I was clueless and now you are saying I treat racism as an urban myth. really?
there is a fine line between racism and the race card.People and shippers using the race card to defend a poorly written romance in a film is what I find cringe worthy.
I find it also cringe worthy that people will deny racial progress because they want to keep playing the race card.
this is why people can sell the false ideology that seeing a black woman kissing a white man is ground breaking in year 2009 or worse in a star trek film. I can not help but feel offended as a star trek fan. This is the same star trek that had a white man and a Chinese woman as a couple in star trek: next generation.... with a family.
The best Star Trek movie by some fans which is First Contact had a Black woman and a white man as the lead and this was in 1997.So I don't know how seeing a Black woman and a white man kissing 12 years later in another star trek film is called ground breaking?
In year 2008 we had an african american president who came from a black father and a white mother but in 2009 we are suppose to believe that the S/U romance which takes place in 2258 was ground breaking? when the same character had already kiss Kirk 40 years ago in real time?
How does this make any sense? My guess is.... it was expected , Uhura/Zoe is pretty and smart so it was way too obvious she had boyfriend in the film.
Racism exist yes, have we made progress? yes. is it ground breaking to see a WM/BW kissing in 2009 in an alien movie like star trek? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
There is no urban myth here, there is only misinformation and ignorance of how progressive star trek has been in its 50 years when it comes to interracial romances and make that interspecies romance as well.
I never also said they should split S/U for Mccoy. In fact what I said was the director needs to handle an ensemble cast better which is what JJ Abrams could not do well. You can have 6-7 major characters like Avengers.
the reason why people call for more Mccoy has nothing to do with sexism or racism or a promotion of all white dude leads at the expense of a black female character and this is why I said people are playing the race card to hold unto a romance.
I don't know how giving McCoy more time is an encouragement for all white dudes when McCoy was already a major character in TOS and the film is based on TOS.
Urban does a fanatic job in the new film so people want to see him more. that is not racism or sexism, it is just people wanting more from what they already know as fans.
Its like watching a Harry potter film with Harry, hermione and Angela but no Ron Wesley and people saying they want more Ron.Wanting more Ron does not mean getting rid of Angela.
We now it is also reality that people break up, have new friends and meet new people. that is as progressive as accepting our world is round not flat.
I don't want S/U to split due to Pegg's writing skills. I just want a well written romance if they decide to put a romance in any film. I loved the relationship in 09 and I did not like it in STID, so it is all about great writing and not shipping a couple regardless of anything.
there is a fine line between racism and the race card.People and shippers using the race card to defend a poorly written romance in a film is what I find cringe worthy.
I find it also cringe worthy that people will deny racial progress because they want to keep playing the race card.
this is why people can sell the false ideology that seeing a black woman kissing a white man is ground breaking in year 2009 or worse in a star trek film. I can not help but feel offended as a star trek fan. This is the same star trek that had a white man and a Chinese woman as a couple in star trek: next generation.... with a family.
The best Star Trek movie by some fans which is First Contact had a Black woman and a white man as the lead and this was in 1997.So I don't know how seeing a Black woman and a white man kissing 12 years later in another star trek film is called ground breaking?
In year 2008 we had an african american president who came from a black father and a white mother but in 2009 we are suppose to believe that the S/U romance which takes place in 2258 was ground breaking? when the same character had already kiss Kirk 40 years ago in real time?
How does this make any sense?
My guess is.... it was expected , Uhura/Zoe is pretty and smart so it was way too obvious she had boyfriend in the film.Racism exist yes, have we made progress? yes. is it ground breaking to see a WM/BW kissing in 2009 in an alien movie like star trek? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
There is no urban myth here, there is only misinformation and ignorance of how progressive star trek has been in its 50 years when it comes to interracial romances and make that interspecies romance as well.
I never also said they should split S/U for Mccoy. In fact what I said was the director needs to handle an ensemble cast better which is what JJ Abrams could not do well. You can have 6-7 major characters like Avengers.
the reason why people call for more Mccoy has nothing to do with sexism or racism or a promotion of all white dude leads at the expense of a black female character and this is why I said people are playing the race card to hold unto a romance.
I don't know how giving McCoy more time is an encouragement for all white dudes when McCoy was already a major character in TOS and the film is based on TOS.
Urban does a fanatic job in the new film so people want to see him more. that is not racism or sexism, it is just people wanting more from what they already know as fans.
Its like watching a Harry potter film with Harry, hermione and Angela but no Ron Wesley and people saying they want more Ron.Wanting more Ron does not mean getting rid of Angela.
We now it is also reality that people break up, have new friends and meet new people. that is as progressive as accepting our world is round not flat.
I don't want S/U to split due to Pegg's writing skills. I just want a well written romance if they decide to put a romance in any film. I loved the relationship in 09 and I did not like it in STID, so it is all about great writing and not shipping a couple regardless of anything.
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Wut.I suppose it was not as bad as the 'lets appeal to immature teen boys' scene with Marcus and Kirk
Dales, you are once again doing a bang-up job of derailing the discussion everyone else was having by (beginning here) arguing against points no one was in fact making. I strongly urge you to back up and re-read Nyotarules's post here, until you understand what it was she was actually saying. Then stay out of the discussion until you understand what everyone else was saying.I never said racism is an urban legend, you keep throwing shades at me. you also said I was clueless and now you are saying I treat racism as an urban myth. really?
there is a fine line between racism and the race card.People and shippers using the race card to defend a poorly written romance in a film is what I find cringe worthy.
I find it also cringe worthy that people will deny racial progress because they want to keep playing the race card.
this is why people can sell the false ideology that seeing a black woman kissing a white man is ground breaking in year 2009 or worse in a star trek film. I can not help but feel offended as a star trek fan. This is the same star trek that had a white man and a Chinese woman as a couple in star trek: next generation.... with a family.
The best Star Trek movie by some fans which is First Contact had a Black woman and a white man as the lead and this was in 1997.So I don't know how seeing a Black woman and a white man kissing 12 years later in another star trek film is called ground breaking?
In year 2008 we had an african american president who came from a black father and a white mother but in 2009 we are suppose to believe that the S/U romance which takes place in 2258 was ground breaking? when the same character had already kiss Kirk 40 years ago in real time?
How does this make any sense?
Racism exist yes, have we made progress? yes. is it ground breaking to see a WM/BW kissing in 2009 in an alien movie like star trek? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
There is no urban myth here, there is only misinformation and ignorance of how progressive star trek has been in its 50 years when it comes to interracial romances and make that interspecies romance as well.
I never also said they should split S/U for Mccoy. In fact what I said was the director needs to handle an ensemble cast better which is what JJ Abrams could not do well. You can have 6-7 major characters like Avengers.
the reason why people call for more Mccoy has nothing to do with sexism or racism or a promotion of all white dude leads at the expense of a black female character and this is why I said people are playing the race card to hold unto a romance.
<snip>
I'm getting really tired of trying to haul discussions back on track because you can't be bothered to actually read posts completely and understand what's being said before hitting the Reply button to defend something which wasn't even being addressed. This has been a frequent problem for you, for a very long time, and I'm just not getting the impression you care at all about improving. Seriously, you'd do well to sit down on your hands and simply watch the discussion progress for a long while without interfering.
And as far as your complaint about people "throwing shades" at you goes: it would carry more merit if you hadn't been the one to start the whole mess off yourself, by yapping about how you "can't believe" people are doing a thing which wasn't even happening in this thread. (You're not even supposed to be talking about other people, remember? Address the content of the post, without attacking to person who posted it.)
Again, you're jumping in with arguments against points no one was making; again, you're attacking other posters; you keep disrupting threads in this manner, and it needs to stop.
Okay. Mod scolding over.
Dales, you make a real effort to behave. Convince me you're trying.
Everyone else: back on track, please: Star Trek pays homage to TOS.
And go.
I suppose it was not as bad as the 'lets appeal to immature teen boys' scene with Marcus and Kirk
Carol Marcus and her fashionable yet sturdy Starfleet issue underwear.
Ohhhh. I was thinking ADMIRAL Marcus.
Gee, do you think JJ haters would like it more if instead it had been the admiral in his undies?
It is illegal to reference that without a screencap.
Eh, not really necessary. There must be hundreds of iterations of that pic in this forum already.
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