I found this in my email from a couple years back as I saved it to start a thread about consideration of Star Trek as an alternate history or universe.Any other thoughts?
Ok I use to be a big Star Trek nut.......Till Voyager.... I read all the
books and remember al this shows.
First off the 1960 of the ST universe is somewhat different from the
OTL<OUR> universe.
Gary Seven episode and the launching of the Orbital Nuke platform. A mighty
divergence right there.
However the books.....<Defiantly NOT cannon but helps the story along> had
led me to believe that the 60's were a time of rapid change and technology
growth.
The episode where the Enterprise was warped back to the 60's and recovered
the F-104 pilot,,,,,
spock notes that the F-04 pilot's son is to command a Titan landing
mission....ok it is the 60 assume his child was already born, assume a age
of 30+ for being a commander of such a mission. This would put the mission
around the Late 80's and Early 90's.
conceder the technology that would be required for that.
conceder that the DY-100 ship that Khan was found on was a commercial
interplanetary vessel... apparently fairly common at the time.
neither the books or the series give a real POD but it must be in he late
40's or 50's..
but then again conceder how the writers never tried to stay consistent
regarding the Past History of the ST universe........
what we Know is that in the late 80's a group of genetic engendered men and
woman rose up and took power. Khan eventualy controlled a area from central
Asia to Australia..... He was over thrown and escaped on a Sleeper Ship.
One of the ST novels <one that involves a person found in that space borne
sleeper Sat. seen in the NextGen esp.> a individual that was revived from
the 90's after being found in a sleeper ship by the enterprise. At one point
in the novel he admits that he has read the history of the past, and relived
that he helped supply the equipment that help produce the GenEng.ppl, like
Kahn. He also note that his son was killed when the USS enterprise was
destroyed repelling Kahns invasion of Eastern Asia.
.
i think this new books on the EG war is a mistake, but Paramont doesn't care
about consistency,,,, only money...
Harley W. Daugherty
"Robert J. Gill" <rjcg...@
>From: "Michael E Johnson" <eddiejohn74@hotmail.com>
>To: eddiejohn74@hotmail.com
>Subject: FW: star trek
>Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:43:31 -0700
>
>I tend to ignore the "secret history of the 1990s" explanation of the
>new Eugenics Wars novels, and just assume that Star Trek is the
>product of a timeline that would have been somewhat different but
>recognizable up to the 1980s, and then veered sharply away in the
>1990s when the changes of several decades before came to fruition.
>
>
>> > these problems come to a head in 2050, when a renegade US colonel >
>>named Green starts World War III, essentially just because he's bitter >
>>about not being elected president.
>
>>Disgruntled Presidential candidate? Where did you come by this
>>information? Novels? TV episodes? Not sure that the episode, "The Savage
>>Curtain," went into that much detail about him.
>
>
>
>The Star Trek *Chronology of the Future* book describes Colonlel Green
>as a "failed presidential candidate" and doesn't give any very good
>reason for why he started World War III except that he wanted to
>exterminate the Earth's "surplus population." Bah humbug.
>
>
>> >If I remember correctly something > on the order of a third of humanity
>>dies in the war.
>
>>About 600,000,000--and given what Earth's population must have been around
>>the 2050's, I don't think that 600,000,000 (while certainly horrifying)
>>exactly qualifies as "a third of humanity."
>
>
>
>Yeah, that sounds more accurate. I must have been thinking of some
>other mid-21st century WWIII timeline. However, I tend to think that
>the 3rd World in general and Asia in particular probably suffered
>disproportionately from the die-offs of the Star Trek WWIII, because
>even though the society of the Federation is supposed to be
>extraordinarily cosmopolitan and devoid of racism, you'll notice that
>it is overwhelmingly American, European, white, and English-speaking,
>despite the fact that racial minorities are fairly evenly spread
>amongst the officer corps. Hell, non-human aliens are more common
>amongst the crew on Federation starships than non-caucasian humans.
>OTL, caucasians represent only a small fraction of the Earth's
>population (I'm not sure exactly, but probably less than a billion),
>but in the Star Trek universe, they are well over 75% of the
>population. OTL China and India each have a population in excess of a
>billion, representing over a third of the Earth's population, but
>there has been only one character of Chinese descent (Harry Kim of
>*Voyager*) and one character of Indian descent (Julian Bashir of
>*DS9*)in all the Star Trek series so far, and one was an
>umpteenth-generation American and the other spoke with a definite
>British accent. There has never been a noteworthy Hispanic character
>that I can recall. On the other hand, the Japanese apparently didn't
>do too badly, with Sulu and O'Brien's wife, and Native Americans, by
>population, have been disproportionately represented by Commander
>Chakotay. Over all, Chinese, Indian, and Hispanic citizens of the
>Federation seem to be chillingly rare. I conclude that during the
>Eugenics Wars and WWIII, North America and Europe must have escaped
>significant damage, and Asia and Latin America must have suffered
>immense casualties to have been so thin on the ground and so
>thoroughly culturally assimilated by the 22nd century and beyond.
>
>
>>From: "Michael E Johnson" <eddiejohn74@hotmail.com>
>>To: eddiejohn74@hotmail.com
>>Subject: star trek
>>Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:37:37 -0700
>>
>>From: Andrew Crane - view profile
>>Date: Mon, Nov 11 2002 8:05 am
>>Email: firefly...@aol.com (Andrew Crane)
>>Groups: soc.history.what-if
>>Not yet ratedRating:
>>show options
>>
>>
>>Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original |
>>Report Abuse | Find messages by this author
>>
>>
>>Star Trek's history is identical to OTL through World War II, and
>>seems to diverge in the 1950s or 1960s. A series of radical
>>technological breakthroughs in genetics/biotechnology and space
>>development would be necessary during this period in order to have the
>>Eugenics Wars in the 1990s. Khan Singh is described as having
>>conquered a third of the Earth by the height of the conflict, so,
>>assuming he was about 30 at that time, he would have to have been born
>>around 1965 at the latest. Advanced space development would also have
>>to be several decades along by the 1990s in order to allow Khan Singh
>>to escape in an interstellar STL 'sleeper ship' at the end of the
>>conflict. Most Star Trek histories seem to record a great deal of
>>social strife, poverty, and international tension in the post-Eugenics
>>Wars period from the 1990s to 2050 - a fairly distopian vision. All
>>these problems come to a head in 2050, when a renegade US colonel
>>named Green starts World War III, essentially just because he's bitter
>>about not being elected president. If I remember correctly something
>>on the order of a third of humanity dies in the war. Human
>>civilization just barely survives. In 2063, Zephram Cochrane invents
>>the Warp Drive out of pure greed and the desire to be surrounded by
>>naked women, and Earth makes first contact with the Vulcans (I also
>>vaguely remember some source mentioning that humanity was unusually
>>precocious in its development of Warp Drive). Humanity begins
>>interstellar colonization. Many millions of people (I dunno about
>>BILLIONS though) do indeed leave Earth on low-warp vessels to colonize
>>nearby star systems - no doubt a major motivating factor would have
>>been the still unpleasant conditions on Earth in the wake of WWIII.
>>Interestingly, many extra-solar colonies are established prior to
>>2100, but Mars isn't colonized until 2103. Humans encounter a small
>>number of new life forms and new civilizations, most of whom (at
>>first) are quite friendly. A very humanlike civilization in the Alpha
>>Centauri system is helpful in rebuilding Earth's shattered ecosystems.
>>Within a few decades, Earth is rapidly transforming into a semblance
>>of the high-tech utopia familiar to Star Trek fans. A World
>>Government of Earth, a precursor to the Federation, is founded in the
>>early 2100s, some time around the 2120s I think. Australia is the
>>last nation to join the Federal World Governement, I think sometime in
>>the 2140s. In 2151, we have Enterprise. In the late 2150s, the
>>Human-Romulan War occurs. In 2161, the Federation is formed, mostly
>>as a reaction of Earth and her allies to the aggressive Romulan Star
>>Empire. A hundred years later, the original series. A hundred years
>>after that, the next generation. The rest is history.
>>
>>"Star Trek" is already on an entirely different technological and
>>scientific track in any case. The original series episode "Space Seed"
>>established that there was a war in Eurasia involving
>>genetically-engineered "supermen" such as Khan Noonien Singh in the 1990s.
>>Shortly after that World War III occurs; what follows is the period
>>referred to in The Next Generation as the "post-atomic horror". If I'm not
>>mixed up, after the post-atomic horror (a snippet of which was seen in the
>>very first episode of TNG, "Encounter at Farpoint") there was a period of
>>recovery marked with social tension (an episode of Deep Space Nine had
>>Sisko, Bashir and Dax travel back to this time period). After *that* comes
>>the 2050s of "First Contact", and the invention of the warp drive by
>>Zephram Cochrane. Ten years later, "Enterprise", and after the inevitable
>>Earth-Romulus war, the United Federation of Planets.
>>
>>It's not that unremarkable when you consider the accelerated pace of
>>technology and the oft-taken for granted expansionist drive of humanity as
>>a species. Maybe everyone really, really wanted to get away from Earth,
>>you
>>know? It didn't seem to be in very good shape circa Cochrane. Besides,
>>we're also looking at four alien cultures with warp-drive that take part
>>in
>>the founding of the Federation; even if they're not involved in the
>>Romulan
>>War, they're presumably trading partners with Earth beforehand.
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
>>http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee®
>Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
_________________________________________________________________
Ok I use to be a big Star Trek nut.......Till Voyager.... I read all the
books and remember al this shows.
First off the 1960 of the ST universe is somewhat different from the
OTL<OUR> universe.
Gary Seven episode and the launching of the Orbital Nuke platform. A mighty
divergence right there.
However the books.....<Defiantly NOT cannon but helps the story along> had
led me to believe that the 60's were a time of rapid change and technology
growth.
The episode where the Enterprise was warped back to the 60's and recovered
the F-104 pilot,,,,,
spock notes that the F-04 pilot's son is to command a Titan landing
mission....ok it is the 60 assume his child was already born, assume a age
of 30+ for being a commander of such a mission. This would put the mission
around the Late 80's and Early 90's.
conceder the technology that would be required for that.
conceder that the DY-100 ship that Khan was found on was a commercial
interplanetary vessel... apparently fairly common at the time.
neither the books or the series give a real POD but it must be in he late
40's or 50's..
but then again conceder how the writers never tried to stay consistent
regarding the Past History of the ST universe........
what we Know is that in the late 80's a group of genetic engendered men and
woman rose up and took power. Khan eventualy controlled a area from central
Asia to Australia..... He was over thrown and escaped on a Sleeper Ship.
One of the ST novels <one that involves a person found in that space borne
sleeper Sat. seen in the NextGen esp.> a individual that was revived from
the 90's after being found in a sleeper ship by the enterprise. At one point
in the novel he admits that he has read the history of the past, and relived
that he helped supply the equipment that help produce the GenEng.ppl, like
Kahn. He also note that his son was killed when the USS enterprise was
destroyed repelling Kahns invasion of Eastern Asia.
.
i think this new books on the EG war is a mistake, but Paramont doesn't care
about consistency,,,, only money...
Harley W. Daugherty
"Robert J. Gill" <rjcg...@
>From: "Michael E Johnson" <eddiejohn74@hotmail.com>
>To: eddiejohn74@hotmail.com
>Subject: FW: star trek
>Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:43:31 -0700
>
>I tend to ignore the "secret history of the 1990s" explanation of the
>new Eugenics Wars novels, and just assume that Star Trek is the
>product of a timeline that would have been somewhat different but
>recognizable up to the 1980s, and then veered sharply away in the
>1990s when the changes of several decades before came to fruition.
>
>
>> > these problems come to a head in 2050, when a renegade US colonel >
>>named Green starts World War III, essentially just because he's bitter >
>>about not being elected president.
>
>>Disgruntled Presidential candidate? Where did you come by this
>>information? Novels? TV episodes? Not sure that the episode, "The Savage
>>Curtain," went into that much detail about him.
>
>
>
>The Star Trek *Chronology of the Future* book describes Colonlel Green
>as a "failed presidential candidate" and doesn't give any very good
>reason for why he started World War III except that he wanted to
>exterminate the Earth's "surplus population." Bah humbug.
>
>
>> >If I remember correctly something > on the order of a third of humanity
>>dies in the war.
>
>>About 600,000,000--and given what Earth's population must have been around
>>the 2050's, I don't think that 600,000,000 (while certainly horrifying)
>>exactly qualifies as "a third of humanity."
>
>
>
>Yeah, that sounds more accurate. I must have been thinking of some
>other mid-21st century WWIII timeline. However, I tend to think that
>the 3rd World in general and Asia in particular probably suffered
>disproportionately from the die-offs of the Star Trek WWIII, because
>even though the society of the Federation is supposed to be
>extraordinarily cosmopolitan and devoid of racism, you'll notice that
>it is overwhelmingly American, European, white, and English-speaking,
>despite the fact that racial minorities are fairly evenly spread
>amongst the officer corps. Hell, non-human aliens are more common
>amongst the crew on Federation starships than non-caucasian humans.
>OTL, caucasians represent only a small fraction of the Earth's
>population (I'm not sure exactly, but probably less than a billion),
>but in the Star Trek universe, they are well over 75% of the
>population. OTL China and India each have a population in excess of a
>billion, representing over a third of the Earth's population, but
>there has been only one character of Chinese descent (Harry Kim of
>*Voyager*) and one character of Indian descent (Julian Bashir of
>*DS9*)in all the Star Trek series so far, and one was an
>umpteenth-generation American and the other spoke with a definite
>British accent. There has never been a noteworthy Hispanic character
>that I can recall. On the other hand, the Japanese apparently didn't
>do too badly, with Sulu and O'Brien's wife, and Native Americans, by
>population, have been disproportionately represented by Commander
>Chakotay. Over all, Chinese, Indian, and Hispanic citizens of the
>Federation seem to be chillingly rare. I conclude that during the
>Eugenics Wars and WWIII, North America and Europe must have escaped
>significant damage, and Asia and Latin America must have suffered
>immense casualties to have been so thin on the ground and so
>thoroughly culturally assimilated by the 22nd century and beyond.
>
>
>>From: "Michael E Johnson" <eddiejohn74@hotmail.com>
>>To: eddiejohn74@hotmail.com
>>Subject: star trek
>>Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:37:37 -0700
>>
>>From: Andrew Crane - view profile
>>Date: Mon, Nov 11 2002 8:05 am
>>Email: firefly...@aol.com (Andrew Crane)
>>Groups: soc.history.what-if
>>Not yet ratedRating:
>>show options
>>
>>
>>Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original |
>>Report Abuse | Find messages by this author
>>
>>
>>Star Trek's history is identical to OTL through World War II, and
>>seems to diverge in the 1950s or 1960s. A series of radical
>>technological breakthroughs in genetics/biotechnology and space
>>development would be necessary during this period in order to have the
>>Eugenics Wars in the 1990s. Khan Singh is described as having
>>conquered a third of the Earth by the height of the conflict, so,
>>assuming he was about 30 at that time, he would have to have been born
>>around 1965 at the latest. Advanced space development would also have
>>to be several decades along by the 1990s in order to allow Khan Singh
>>to escape in an interstellar STL 'sleeper ship' at the end of the
>>conflict. Most Star Trek histories seem to record a great deal of
>>social strife, poverty, and international tension in the post-Eugenics
>>Wars period from the 1990s to 2050 - a fairly distopian vision. All
>>these problems come to a head in 2050, when a renegade US colonel
>>named Green starts World War III, essentially just because he's bitter
>>about not being elected president. If I remember correctly something
>>on the order of a third of humanity dies in the war. Human
>>civilization just barely survives. In 2063, Zephram Cochrane invents
>>the Warp Drive out of pure greed and the desire to be surrounded by
>>naked women, and Earth makes first contact with the Vulcans (I also
>>vaguely remember some source mentioning that humanity was unusually
>>precocious in its development of Warp Drive). Humanity begins
>>interstellar colonization. Many millions of people (I dunno about
>>BILLIONS though) do indeed leave Earth on low-warp vessels to colonize
>>nearby star systems - no doubt a major motivating factor would have
>>been the still unpleasant conditions on Earth in the wake of WWIII.
>>Interestingly, many extra-solar colonies are established prior to
>>2100, but Mars isn't colonized until 2103. Humans encounter a small
>>number of new life forms and new civilizations, most of whom (at
>>first) are quite friendly. A very humanlike civilization in the Alpha
>>Centauri system is helpful in rebuilding Earth's shattered ecosystems.
>>Within a few decades, Earth is rapidly transforming into a semblance
>>of the high-tech utopia familiar to Star Trek fans. A World
>>Government of Earth, a precursor to the Federation, is founded in the
>>early 2100s, some time around the 2120s I think. Australia is the
>>last nation to join the Federal World Governement, I think sometime in
>>the 2140s. In 2151, we have Enterprise. In the late 2150s, the
>>Human-Romulan War occurs. In 2161, the Federation is formed, mostly
>>as a reaction of Earth and her allies to the aggressive Romulan Star
>>Empire. A hundred years later, the original series. A hundred years
>>after that, the next generation. The rest is history.
>>
>>"Star Trek" is already on an entirely different technological and
>>scientific track in any case. The original series episode "Space Seed"
>>established that there was a war in Eurasia involving
>>genetically-engineered "supermen" such as Khan Noonien Singh in the 1990s.
>>Shortly after that World War III occurs; what follows is the period
>>referred to in The Next Generation as the "post-atomic horror". If I'm not
>>mixed up, after the post-atomic horror (a snippet of which was seen in the
>>very first episode of TNG, "Encounter at Farpoint") there was a period of
>>recovery marked with social tension (an episode of Deep Space Nine had
>>Sisko, Bashir and Dax travel back to this time period). After *that* comes
>>the 2050s of "First Contact", and the invention of the warp drive by
>>Zephram Cochrane. Ten years later, "Enterprise", and after the inevitable
>>Earth-Romulus war, the United Federation of Planets.
>>
>>It's not that unremarkable when you consider the accelerated pace of
>>technology and the oft-taken for granted expansionist drive of humanity as
>>a species. Maybe everyone really, really wanted to get away from Earth,
>>you
>>know? It didn't seem to be in very good shape circa Cochrane. Besides,
>>we're also looking at four alien cultures with warp-drive that take part
>>in
>>the founding of the Federation; even if they're not involved in the
>>Romulan
>>War, they're presumably trading partners with Earth beforehand.
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
>>http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee®
>Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
_________________________________________________________________
