Star Trek and Religion

[snuffles]

Do you think that the treatment of religion in ST changed after Roddenberry's passing?

(I have Bajorans/Kira specifically in mind. It seems that compared with the role of religion in the original films and the original series, though organized religion is seen as fairly corrupt in upcoming series (i.e. Kai Wynn), the treatment of Bajoran customs/spirituality is quite respectful.)

Comments?

 

[Dr_Daystrom]

On Futurama they did a Star Trek episode called "Where No Fan Has Gone Before". There was a whole bit about the Church of Trek with a side gag about the Ceiling of the Christine Chapel.

 

[Sector 7]

It seems I am not allowed to have an opinion, per a certain moderator.
But if I were allowed to have an opinion, I would say that GR (like television of his day) had respect for the Christian faith. Bread and Circuses was a good example of this. Many shows had to pass not only censors but a committee from the Catholic Church which would give their approval of a show as being fit for Catholics to watch.
Now there seem to be no such societal restrictions. Television has fewer censors, societal morals have declined, some people employed by the churches have fallen, which leads to less respect for religions or faith on televsion or in the movies. There are a few exceptions, but not many.

I've seen that episode of Futurama several times. It's my all-time favorite!
[Hopefully, stating my humble opinion will not cause me more trouble. If so, it has been nice knowing you.]

 

[StolenThunder]

I've removed the link from your post, Dr_Daystrom. We can't encourage the non-legal viewing of whole TV episodes.

 

[Dr_Daystrom]

I've removed the link from your post, Dr_Daystrom. We can't encourage the non-legal viewing of whole TV episodes.

My bad. Wasn't thinking. Sorry.

 

[StolenThunder]

No worries.

 

[Lynx]

I'm not sure about Gene Roddenberry's beliefs when it comes to religion but I do think that the issue was better treated with him in charge, compared to Braga's downright atheist propaganda in Voyager episodes like "Emanations", "Coda" and "Mortal Coil".

I must admit that the way Braga rammed his atheism down our throats did annoy me.

 

[Deckerd]

I'm not sure about Gene Roddenberry's beliefs when it comes to religion but I do think that the issue was better treated with him in charge, compared to Braga's downright atheist propaganda in Voyager episodes like "Emanations", "Coda" and "Mortal Coil".

I must admit that the way Braga rammed his atheism down our throats did annoy me.

I think TNG was more truly secular than any other show. The lack of religion doesn't appear to detract from the world view of the stories. What's to get annoyed about?

 

[Thrall]

I'm not sure about Gene Roddenberry's beliefs when it comes to religion but I do think that the issue was better treated with him in charge, compared to Braga's downright atheist propaganda in Voyager episodes like "Emanations", "Coda" and "Mortal Coil".

I must admit that the way Braga rammed his atheism down our throats did annoy me.

He called Star Trek "An Atheist Mythology". A funny phrase, considering atheists consider religion the worship of mythology. So in some ways he's calling Trek a religion. Although I doubt he's smart enough to pick up on that. TNG may have been that way to him(he was one of it's writers), but TOS is not really. They even did an episode where Jesus kind of shows up. This is the guy who once admitted(or so I hear) that he had never seen an Original Series episode prior to getting hired for TNG.

Commenting on social issues is one thing. That's what Gene did. It's what Behr and Moore did. It's what Trey Parker and Matt Stone do. But preaching about social issues is another. Like Kevin Smith said, "If I can throw a little bit of message in there and make people think, I've done my job. Not to change their minds, but to offer them something to consider. However if I were to ram it down people's throats and preach on a soap box then it would be all about the message and then it wouldn't be entertainment anymore."

 

[alicelouise]

I'm not sure about Gene Roddenberry's beliefs when it comes to religion but I do think that the issue was better treated with him in charge, compared to Braga's downright atheist propaganda in Voyager episodes like "Emanations", "Coda" and "Mortal Coil".

I must admit that the way Braga rammed his atheism down our throats did annoy me.

It was more bitter antitheism than atheism. TNG was very secular. TOS seemed to be unitarian. The Enterprise even had an all purpose chapel. To be fair, the writers of TNG probably didn't want to go there as far as it concerned religion. DS9 showed the devout and corrupt aspects of religion. Of course, producer Ron Moore, explored this further in nuBSG.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Star Trek has always danced around the issue of religion. Roddenberry's notion that "religion will wither away" and humanity's future is atheistic and rational is interesting (regardless of whether you think this is a good idea) and I'd love to see Trek someday really embrace that idea. That certainly wouldn't preclude depiction of alien religions, and some can be "good" (Bajorans) and some can be "bad" (Dominion).

Mainly I just want future writers for Star Trek to have the guts to propose that an atheistic future could be both possible and good or at least not bad.

 

[3D Master]

It seems I am not allowed to have an opinion, per a certain moderator.
But if I were allowed to have an opinion, I would say that GR (like television of his day) had respect for the Christian faith. Bread and Circuses was a good example of this.

Wasn't done by Roddenberry, it was one of the other main honchos, Coon IIRC.

B&C is also one of the most ridiculous concepts of this. People worshiping the sun is a 1000 times more enlightened than some guy (fictional or not), seeing as the sun is the actual single most dominant force in a solar system, ruling over its life and death with absolution; especially considering what the religion of that guy did/will do in the years after it rose to dominance. Witch hunts, burnings at stakes, torture and inquisition, intolerance in the extreme - the polytheist Romans, and nature religions were/are enlightened saints in comparison.

 

[Sector 7]

It seems I am not allowed to have an opinion, per a certain moderator.
But if I were allowed to have an opinion, I would say that GR (like television of his day) had respect for the Christian faith. Bread and Circuses was a good example of this.

Wasn't done by Roddenberry, it was one of the other main honchos, Coon IIRC.

B&C is also one of the most ridiculous concepts of this. People worshiping the sun is a 1000 times more enlightened than some guy (fictional or not), seeing as the sun is the actual single most dominant force in a solar system, ruling over its life and death with absolution; especially considering what the religion of that guy did/will do in the years after it rose to dominance. Witch hunts, burnings at stakes, torture and inquisition, intolerance in the extreme - the polytheist Romans, and nature religions were/are enlightened saints in comparison.

Let's not forget human and child sacrifices to the sun god. .. and volcano god... not to mention Roman slaughter of Christians because they dared to practice their faith... yeah that's much more enlightened.

 

[Captain X]

Mainly I just want future writers for Star Trek to have the guts to propose that an atheistic future could be both possible and good or at least not bad.

I'd actually like to see them have the guts to present religion in a a non-negative manner, because while DS9 was better about it, pretty much the only time it was ever brought up it was to show some bad aspect of religion, like that guy that wanted Bajor to go back to castes, or Kia Winn also serving as the political leader of Bajor (or Kia Winn in general for that matter). TNG pretty much was exactly what you describe if you listen to picard, who apparently saw all religion as bad in Who Watches the Watchers. I guess I don;t see them as ever really doing any kind of dance around the issue of religion, because I'm hard pressed to think of any references in Star Trek's 40 years that weren't negative in some way.

 

[Danoz]

Star Trek has always danced around the issue of religion. Roddenberry's notion that "religion will wither away" and humanity's future is atheistic and rational is interesting (regardless of whether you think this is a good idea) and I'd love to see Trek someday really embrace that idea. That certainly wouldn't preclude depiction of alien religions, and some can be "good" (Bajorans) and some can be "bad" (Dominion).

Mainly I just want future writers for Star Trek to have the guts to propose that an atheistic future could be both possible and good or at least not bad.

I'm not a fan of unified atheism in Trek. I wouldn't mind seeing some trek humans still practicing "classical" religions in one form or another. I think it's unlikely that humanity would unify in agnosticism.

 

[Damask]

I'd actually like to see them have the guts to present religion in a a non-negative manner, because while DS9 was better about it, pretty much the only time it was ever brought up it was to show some bad aspect of religion, like that guy that wanted Bajor to go back to castes, or Kia Winn also serving as the political leader of Bajor (or Kia Winn in general for that matter).

Really? I thought DS9 showed some positive aspects of religion from the start. In Emissary it is Kai Opaka who helps to unite her people. Not the politicians. "In The Hands of the Prophets" showed that the Bajorans fought for their freedom mainly because of their faith in their gods. Their faith in their Emissary spared them from Dominion conquest. Their Gods protected Bajor and prevented ships coming through the wormhole.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

not to mention Roman slaughter of Christians because they dared to practice their faith... yeah that's much more enlightened.

Historically polytheistic religions have always been more tolerant of other religions than monotheistic ones. Mostly because if you believe in many gods a few more isn't a hassle. The two things Rome had against Christianity was that it denied the existence of the Roman Pantheon and it was seen as an upstart religion. Judaism in general was treated better under Roman rule because they respected its antiquity and tradition, despite its denial of the Roman Pantheon, which still caused a lot of friction. In the end the biggest problems Rome had with the Jews were political in nature.

Which isn't saying that the persecution of Christians was justified by any means, but it wasn't the norm for Rome or other polytheists.

 

[Navaros]

DS9 was more tolerant of religion than TNG or VOY. TOS waffled on the issue (on one hand they had Christmas parties; Bread and Circuses; then on the other hand, the notion that god(s) isn't/aren't needed, beliefs in god(s) are false and lead to destruction of societies etc.). Not sure about ENT.

However, DS9 was only tolerant of religion up to a point where it didn't start to step on the secular humanist agenda's toes. Even DS9 resorted to bashing religion when it came to a caste system, and bashing religion when it came to one that has morals against fornication and things like that (attributing morals like that to the "evil" Pah-Wraith religion ).

A truly enlightened Trek show that deals with religion in a fair-minded way has not yet come. That would be one that uses real-world religions instead of phony made up ones, and fully respects them (even when they step on the secular humanist agenda's toes).

 

[Deckerd]

A truly enlightened Trek show that deals with religion in a fair-minded way has not yet come. That would be one that uses real-world religions instead of phony made up ones, and fully respects them (even when they step on the secular humanist agenda's toes).

Other shows have done it successfully but it would never work in ST, even if anyone commissioned such a show. The viewing figures would be tiny.

 

[Dr_Daystrom]

not to mention Roman slaughter of Christians because they dared to practice their faith... yeah that's much more enlightened.

Historically polytheistic religions have always been more tolerant of other religions than monotheistic ones. Mostly because if you believe in many gods a few more isn't a hassle. The two things Rome had against Christianity was that it denied the existence of the Roman Pantheon and it was seen as an upstart religion. Judaism in general was treated better under Roman rule because they respected its antiquity and tradition, despite its denial of the Roman Pantheon, which still caused a lot of friction. In the end the biggest problems Rome had with the Jews were political in nature.

Which isn't saying that the persecution of Christians was justified by any means, but it wasn't the norm for Rome or other polytheists.

Rome's problem with the upstart Christians (known as The Way back then) was that they would not worship the Emperor or engage in military service. Judaism was also not tolerated very well. Look at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE and the seige of Masada in 73 CE.