Star Trek and Human Progress

[The Overlord]

Does Star Trek present a realistic picture of human progress? You can argue human socities have progressed beyond pratices from ancient, medieval and even the 19th century eras. But I don't think progress always moves forward, some socities decide to go back on things that could be progressive.

Plus I think some things are part of human nature, like tribalism. When Picard claims humans have moved beyond greed and revenge, that seems unlikely.

 

[Voth commando1]

Does Star Trek present a realistic picture of human progress? You can argue human socities have progressed beyond pratices from ancient, medieval and even the 19th century eras. But I don't think progress always moves forward, some socities decide to go back on things that could be progressive.

Plus I think some things are part of human nature, like tribalism. When Picard claims humans have moved beyond greed and revenge, that seems unlikely.

Perhaps the Third World War and the previous conflicts therein spurred some fundamental shift in human behavior.

It's a beautiful future and I think possible if only the hearts and minds of the human race were set on it.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Things don't change as much as we think they will. Doorknobs are still quite common in the 21st Century. Flying cars have yet to become common. We haven't even set foot on the Moon, again, much less on Mars. People are still named things like George and Henry and ... dare I say it? ... 2takes. Social norms change with much greater rapidity however, so, I don't know ...

I definitely see token gestures continuing on, like the UN, or the ISS, those sorts of things. People want the future to belong to their kids, even the world's leaders do. So, we haven't incinerated ourselves, yet, even though we really wanted to. I see the hope for the future that's in STAR TREK always being a part of The Human Condition. The hopefulness is what I find to be the most believable, the most realistic.

 

[Mojochi]

Flying cars have yet to become common.

Because they shouldn't. We could very easily have made that a reality, but it's a horrible idea. The general public is not capable of piloting skills, or aircraft maintenance consistent with not dying in a fiery wreck

Sometimes dreams of the future are not at all viable, & Trek does indeed have some of that. Factor in the fact that the turning point of Star Trek Earth society hinges on the advent of faster than light travel, & a lot of it's feasibility seems unreachable... Sadly

 

[JesterFace]

If the world is run by smart and understanding people, the Trek future is possible.

It only seems that the big leaders of today are greedy, "my interests first" type leaders... Maybe that can change for the better.

 

[Overgeeked]

Does Star Trek present a realistic picture of human progress? You can argue human socities have progressed beyond pratices from ancient, medieval and even the 19th century eras. But I don't think progress always moves forward, some socities decide to go back on things that could be progressive.

Plus I think some things are part of human nature, like tribalism. When Picard claims humans have moved beyond greed and revenge, that seems unlikely.

When societies reject science, education, facts, kindness, inclusivity, and plurality, they move backwards. Progress always is forward movement. Things always change, things don't always progress.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I don't believe people would want to work if they don't get paid for it. It's in human nature to avoid work, not actively seek it out when it's not necessary.

I mean, to anyone reading this message: would YOU work if you don't get paid? No? Then there's your answer.

 

[Spot261]

Yes? I have done in one form or another most of my life?

As in most Aid Workers, charity volunteers, the Red Cross, MsF would probably disagree with you.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

As in most Aid Workers, charity volunteers, the Red Cross, MsF would probably disagree with you.

Of course they would, quite rightly so. And they should be commended for it.

Unfortunately, the majority of humanity is not quite so noble.

 

[The Lonely Man]

I don't believe people would want to work if they don't get paid for it. It's in human nature to avoid work, not actively seek it out when it's not necessary.

I mean, to anyone reading this message: would YOU work if you don't get paid? No? Then there's your answer.

Definitely true.

Going strictly with the Trek scenario and Picard says in First Contact that Humanity has changed, the pursuit of wealth is no longer the driving force in a persons life, we work to better ourselves and all humanity.

Will we ever see that ? I doubt it, doesn't mean we can't hope for the sort of future Star Trek portrays.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Because they shouldn't. We could very easily have made that a reality, but it's a horrible idea. The general public is not capable of piloting skills, or aircraft maintenance consistent with not dying in a fiery wreck

Hahaha...!!! STAR TREK takes no notice ...

 

[uniderth]

Objectively, there is no such thing as progress or "moving forward." There is only change. Progress can only be determined by measuring against some societal/personal goal or value. And those societal goals and values are largely arbitrary.

For me, I think tribalism is a good thing and something we should be striving towards. And I don't mean petty fighting by groups. By tribalism I mean gathering together in smaller close knit family groups. Living together among unrelated people is a big source of many problems we have today.

While some may view tall towers and glistening sterilized cities and progress, I don't. It's a horrible idea. Progress for me, is small close knit communities dotting the globe. We can still have the interconnectedness of a global civilization. We can also maintain technological progress becasue we have the tools to accomplish more with fewer people.

I mean, to anyone reading this message: would YOU work if you don't get paid? No? Then there's your answer.

I would do many kinds of work and not get paid, provided my needs were taken care of. I don't think it's human nature to avoid work. I think it's human nature to seek for efficiency, expression, and enjoyment.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Does it matter if it's realistic? For humanity to be as perfect as it is in TNG is probably not completely realistic. But, if we aim for that model, we'll land a lot closer than we are now, and that's the point.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Would I work if I don't get paid? Well, I certainly wouldn't just sit around doing nothing. That's just plain boring. I would want to create something, I would want to contribute.

Nobody would do *bad* jobs if they didn't get paid.

Let's all not disregard the social pressure and social rewards of working. Having a position of authority and importance is more appealing to the gender of your preference, being perceived as lazy and useless is less appealing. For some people power and respect is an end unto itself, for some people contributing, making the world better, having your art appreciated is a motive.

I agree tribalism isn't inherently negative, so long as you don't attack or hoard resources from other tribes, or create a situation where opportunities are only available to your own tribe.

 

[Tenacity]

As in most Aid Workers, charity volunteers, the Red Cross, MsF would probably disagree with you.

You do know that the people who actually work full time for the Red Cross do get paid. Senior Directors make about a hundred thousand US$ a year.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And Goodwill executives make a fair amount of dough, as we recently learned...

 

[2takesfrakes]

Red Cross's CEO makes millions of not-for-profit dollars, a year!

 

[Tenacity]

Perhaps the Third World War and the previous conflicts therein spurred some fundamental shift in human behavior.

Not according to LaForge in FC, he said that it was the invention of the warp drive that did it, not the third world war and not meeting the Vulcans.

Progress always is forward movement. Things always change, things don't always progress.

Progress can also steer a society into a deep ditch or down a dark pathway.

Movement into the future will be (as in the past) a billion roadways separating and intertwining, that won't all be leading to one destination.

 

[Paradise City]

I could see a futuristic institution that could present the values that the Federation does.

But a bit like Kahn said himself in Space Speed, man himself will change little. Then as Quark advises Nog in DS9, humans are all very well but when you remove the goodies, humans make Klingons seem like choir boys. I think that's on point. Power is needed to uphold a Federation society and such values are useful but they aren't the self sustaining truths they purport to be.

 

[The Overlord]

I don't believe people would want to work if they don't get paid for it. It's in human nature to avoid work, not actively seek it out when it's not necessary.

I mean, to anyone reading this message: would YOU work if you don't get paid? No? Then there's your answer.

I think people would do work for free if its something they loved. I just wonder who does all the unpleasant grunt work in the Federation, do people take turns? How do make sure everyone doesn't try to become an artist, which is a cool profession, but not one a society would need a huge amount of.