It provides an endless supply of virtual signaling opportunities.
Star Trek and Colonialism...
- Thread starter Ferengi Prime 5
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That form of political expansion has a name I'm sure, but I'm not sure that name is colonialism. Perhaps we should state what we consider the defining elements of colonialism and see if the Federation actually does them.
Firstly, I don't think starting new settlements in places without an existing population is "colonialism" even if they are called colonies. It just seems that way on Earth because everywhere already has people. We don't consider people who walked across land bridges to Australia and North and South America to be colonizers.
Secondly, colonialism requires political domination. Do you think the EU is currently trying to colonize Montenegro, Serbia, and Ukraine? They certainly seem like the best parallel we have for the UFP in this regard.
Or an opportunity for discussion around topics they find interesting. Why not?
While I don't agree with the OP on the topic, I certainly don't see a problem with the commentary. Star Trek is, supposedly, about a place of diversity and talking out problems, differences in opinion. Yet, when conversation arises it is labeled as virtue signaling. How do we have conversation if that is the reaction?
If the OP was listening to the responses and then formulating a reasoned response, I'd be tempted to agree with you. Instead, all I see is more piling on on the OP's part. It's not a conversation, as far as the OP is concerned. It's a lecture.
Ok. I can live with lecture. I don't agree with the OP at all, but I'll hardly say what they can and can't watch either. And we can have a conversation regardless.
I do not find Star Trek reprehensible. I am pointing out Star Trek has the underlining theme colonialism.
you think! please point to any episode where ufp has a colony on a planet where some sort of 'noble savages' live - and no, the galileo seven doesn't count - neither does a private little war.
I have pointed out UFP come bearing gifts join us give up your sovereignty and we will civilize you with new tech toys... There is more than one way to colonialize a people... UFP offering to civilize these knew warp worlds just like Europeans offered and the Greeks offered to colonized people... Any Episode were the UFP is offering membership is colonialism...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilizing_mission
The civilizing mission or civilising mission (Spanish: misión civilizadora; Portuguese: Missão civilizadora; French: Mission civilisatrice) is a political rationale for military intervention and for colonization purporting to facilitate the modernization and the Westernization of indigenous peoples, especially in the period from the 15th to the 20th centuries. As a principle of European culture, the term was most prominently used in justifying French[1] colonialism in the late-15th to mid-20th centuries. The civilizing mission was the cultural justification for the colonial exploitation of French Algeria, French West Africa, French Indochina, Portuguese Angola and Portuguese Guinea, Portuguese Mozambique and Portuguese Timor, among other colonies. The civilizing mission also was a popular justification for the British,[2] German, [3][4] and American[citation needed] colonialism. In the Russian Empire, it was also associated with the Russian conquest of Central Asia and the Russification of that region.[5][6][7] The western European colonial powers claimed that, as Christian nations, they were duty-bound to disseminate Western civilization to what Europeans perceived as the heathen and primitive cultures of the Eastern world.[citation needed]
I wonder what people would prefer? A loose confederation of worlds who occasionally hang out together to fight off bad guys?
Your world is yours and will always be yours, that is what differentiates us from the Klingons. - Kirk, “Friday’s Child”
Like it or not, the act of discovery is, in itself, an act of interference, an act of change. The act of introducing new ideas will change any culture. The act of trying to help, in any manner, is an act of interference.
The core mission statement of Star Trek, “seek out new life and new civilizations”, openly states that interference is going to happen.
So I’ll just watch it with a basic tenet in mind, it is just a TV show.
Yes, but the murderers in crime shows aren't generally the heroes. If Starfleet is as bad as the OP is saying, it'd be like watching a Punisher show that whole-heartedly supports Punisher.
No one has. I'm just trying to understand why they would.
The heroes murder people too in crime shows. Daredevil is shown to be a vigilante in his show yet people like him.
Because they enjoy some facet of it. One doesn't have to agree with protagonists to watch a show.
This seems to go beyond disagreeing with the protagonists, this seems to be a fundamental disagreement with the premise of the show.
Not horror, just bafflement.
People watch Star Trek even though they don't like it all the time. I believe the phrase is "because Star Trek."
People watch Star Trek even though they don't like it all the time. I believe the phrase is "because Star Trek."
All the time = any of the time
I mean, I think the idea that Federation expansionism is not a form of colonialism would be a lot easier to swallow if the Federation weren't so Earth-centric and Earth-dominated -- and if, for that matter, United Earth weren't depicted as so Euro-American-centric and Euro-American-dominated!
Per Wikipedia:
Colonialism is a practice or policy of control by one people or power over other people or areas,[1][2][3] often by establishing colonies[4] and generally with the aim of economic dominance.[5] In the process of colonisation, colonisers may impose their religion, language, economics, and other cultural practices. The foreign administrators rule the territory in pursuit of their interests, seeking to benefit from the colonised region's people and resources.[6] It is associated with but distinct from imperialism.[1]
* * *
Imperialism is the state policy, practice, or advocacy of extending power and dominion, especially by direct territorial acquisition or by gaining political and economic control of other areas,[2][3] often through employing hard power, especially military force, but also soft power. While related to the concepts of colonialism and empire, imperialism is a distinct concept that can apply to other forms of expansion and many forms of government.
The explicit goal of the Federation is to persuade independent worlds to become Federation Members -- to, in other words, give up their sovereignty and subject themselves to Federation rule. It is also the explicit policy of the UFP to establish new colonies on uninhabited worlds and thereby expand its own territory.
I have a hard time not categorizing this as a form of colonialism or imperialism. Now, again, Star Trek is a liberal fantasy about benevolent space colonialism, so this expansionism is always supposed to happen with the consent of those who join and without oppressing indigenous peoples. But I just don't see how that idea of expansionism isn't inherently a form of colonialism.
I mean -- in some ways, yes. I would argue, first off, that the E.U. in some ways is already an instrument of German (and to a lesser extent, French and Italian) economic domination over the rest of the Member States. Membership in the E.U. requires adherence to E.U. law -- Member States agree to give up some of their sovereignty when they so join. The E.U. is also actively trying to pressure Member States like Hungary that are pro-Russian in their alignment -- and I think they should do so, mind you! But the E.U. has also done some truly unjustified colonialist things to its Member States, like when it and its institutions basically put a gun to Greece's head and told them to give the European "Troika" veto power over all legislation the Greek Parliament passed -- in essence demanding the Greeks give up their sovereignty because of their debt crisis. (I still think the Greek government at the time should have dropped the Euro, readopted the drachma and de-valued their currency so as to regain control over their own monetary policy.)
And on top of all that, there's enough talk about the need for a common European military deterrent/independent E.U. military power that I think the E.U. is in the process of turning into a sovereign state. And when it does so, it will inevitably start to homogenize the diverse cultures that are already in the Union -- in fact, arguably this has already begun in some respects. That's the trade-off you inherently make when you agree to give up your sovereignty and join a multi-national union.
So, again, to me the question is not, "Is this a form of colonialism?" I think it is. You could maybe argue that it's different enough, and less oppressive enough, that it deserves its own name -- "diet colonialism." "Colonialism Lite." "Soft colonialism." But it's there, and it's happening. The question is, is that a good thing?
Star Trek display it as willing people going in a union. I ask if your a planet within Star Trek not part of the Federation but in federation space. You will still have to follow many of the Federation rules if you want to travel or trade within the Federation.
Space is lonely and dangerous so if your a small newly warp society than joining the Federation makes sense, even with the intrusive nature of Federation. If your an older well establish warp society than joining the Federation, may not be the best choice, unless you have shared enemies...
The question is, does joining or not joining really make any difference, longer term? We all agree the Federation doesn't colonize by force, but apparently more by 'soft' cultural influence. The Ferengi never joined (at least up until the TNG/DS9/VOY era). Yet apparently they were thoroughly 'Federationized' by cultural influence. So it seems that influence permeates borders, regardless of whether a society chooses to join or not.
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