Star Trek, Amazon, & KFX eBooks

[JWolf]

Star Trek book are supposed to be sold with no DRM. If you buy the eBook and get an ePub, KF8, or Mobi, you get an eBook with no DRM that you can convert and/or edit. For example, if you buy an ePub version and have trouble reading the eBook with the fonts that are embedded, you can remove the fonts.

But now Amazon has invented KFX. This then changes what is supposed to be DRM free. If you have a new enough Kindle app or a Kindle that supports KFX, when you download the eBook, you get KFX which you cannot do anything with other than read as is.

Doesn't KFX violate Star Trek eBooks being DRM free with a version that's not DRM free?

 

[Idran]

Yes

What's S&S going to do about it though, not sell on Amazon?

 

[ATimson]

But now Amazon has invented KFX. This then changes what is supposed to be DRM free. If you have a new enough Kindle app or a Kindle that supports KFX, when you download the eBook, you get KFX which you cannot do anything with other than read as is.

Just because there are no editing tools yet doesn't mean it's not DRM-free. As long as you're able to open it in any other Kindle reader "as is", then it fulfills the requirements.

 

[Idran]

Just because there are no editing tools yet doesn't mean it's not DRM-free. As long as you're able to open it in any other Kindle reader "as is", then it fulfills the requirements.

DRM-free doesn't mean "you can use it on any other product put out by the corporation that released it", it means "there is nothing restricting you from using it where you want to use it". Editing is up in the air, sure, but DRM-free means that you can open it on something that isn't a Kindle. Like how DRM-free music from Apple can be opened outside iTunes, or DRM-free comics from Comixology can be viewed outside the Comixology reader.

If it's specifically designed with the intention to restrict where you can use it, how you can use it, or how often you can use it, it's not DRM-free.

 

[ATimson]

DRM-free doesn't mean "you can use it on any other product put out by the corporation that released it", it means "there is nothing restricting you from using it where you want to use it". Editing is up in the air, sure, but DRM-free means that you can open it on something that isn't a Kindle. Like how DRM-free music from Apple can be opened outside iTunes, or DRM-free comics from Comixology can be viewed outside the Comixology reader.

Okay - that was poor phrasing on my part. I should have said "any KFX-compatible reader" - which at the moment is only Kindle devices and software.

Just because nobody else has written KFX-compatible reading software doesn't mean that the book being made available to you in the KFX format means that it suddenly has DRM.

(No, there's no spec for the format. There's no AZW3 spec - and honestly I'm not entirely sure that there was ever an official Mobipocket one either. People have just had the time and interest to reverse-engineer those formats.)

 

[Daddy Todd]

Star Trek book are supposed to be sold with no DRM. If you buy the eBook and get an ePub, KF8, or Mobi, you get an eBook with no DRM that you can convert and/or edit. For example, if you buy an ePub version and have trouble reading the eBook with the fonts that are embedded, you can remove the fonts.

But now Amazon has invented KFX. This then changes what is supposed to be DRM free. If you have a new enough Kindle app or a Kindle that supports KFX, when you download the eBook, you get KFX which you cannot do anything with other than read as is.

Doesn't KFX violate Star Trek eBooks being DRM free with a version that's not DRM free?

That's why I had to keep my kindle for pic from updating itself with a newer version. The old version still uses the older formats. Calibre approves!

 

[Idran]

Okay - that was poor phrasing on my part. I should have said "any KFX-compatible reader" - which at the moment is only Kindle devices and software.

Just because nobody else has written KFX-compatible reading software doesn't mean that the book being made available to you in the KFX format means that it suddenly has DRM.

(No, there's no spec for the format. There's no AZW3 spec - and honestly I'm not entirely sure that there was ever an official Mobipocket one either. People have just had the time and interest to reverse-engineer those formats.)

That's a fair point; I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but I've always considered proprietary formats with no published spec provided as a sort of low-level DRM, seeing as part of the goal with such formats is specifically to lock you in via the same means as more traditional DRM. Amazon wants you to use Amazon devices, and while there are features they're including in KFX that aren't provided by AZW3, at least some of the motivation to the format change is also to keep people on Kindles.

But yeah, that is more subjective in this specific case than something solid.

 

[CaffeineAddict]

Sounds like some people misunderstand what DRM is, and are confusing it with file formats. DRM is specifically a copy protection mechanism that prevents use of a file without authorization from a third party: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

A file format not being widly supported is absolutley *Not* DRM. There are no digital rights involved here, just application compatibility. If the spec isnt published so others cannot currently make their applications support the file format, then thats a whole seperate issue, but DRM it is not.

 

[jaime]

This thread raised my curiousity....and....it turns out KFx has been around for two years, calibre supports it, etc etc...in other words it decidedly isn't drm, and my excitement at what sounded like a cool new format was totally misplaced. Shame. I look forward to software updates.

 

[JWolf]

This thread raised my curiousity....and....it turns out KFx has been around for two years, calibre supports it, etc etc...in other words it decidedly isn't drm, and my excitement at what sounded like a cool new format was totally misplaced. Shame. I look forward to software updates.

Calibre recognizes KFX. Calibre does not support KFX. Calibre cannot view, edit, or convert KFX. So no, Calibre does not support KFX. KFX is a form of DRM given that the reason for going DRM free is gone with KFX. With a DRM free ePub or KF8, you can edit and convert. So if you have ePub or KF8, you can get them into a format that works for you if the format it's in is not it.

 

[jaime]

Calibre recognizes KFX. Calibre does not support KFX. Calibre cannot view, edit, or convert KFX. So no, Calibre does not support KFX. KFX is a form of DRM given that the reason for going DRM free is gone with KFX. With a DRM free ePub or KF8, you can edit and convert. So if you have ePub or KF8, you can get them into a format that works for you if the format it's in is not it.

Well, that's what came up when I googled it. It's an older format, someone said calibre recognises it. *shrug* it's not really DRM is it. It's like making an album available on vinyl and calling it DRM cos some people don't have record players.

 

[JWolf]

That's a fair point; I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but I've always considered proprietary formats with no published spec provided as a sort of low-level DRM, seeing as part of the goal with such formats is specifically to lock you in via the same means as more traditional DRM. Amazon wants you to use Amazon devices, and while there are features they're including in KFX that aren't provided by AZW3, at least some of the motivation to the format change is also to keep people on Kindles.

But yeah, that is more subjective in this specific case than something solid.

The thing is, there's no need for KFX. Everything could have been done with the KF8 renderer. RMDSK (ADE) does it all with box standard ePub. You get kerning, hyphenation, variable spacing, and ligatures. These are features (not sure of the variable spacing) you get with KFX. KFX is a way to lock-in users of newer Kindles.

 

[jaime]

The thing is, there's no need for KFX. Everything could have been done with the KF8 renderer. RMDSK (ADE) does it all with box standard ePub. You get kerning, hyphenation, variable spacing, and ligatures. These are features (not sure of the variable spacing) you get with KFX. KFX is a way to lock-in users of newer Kindles.

It may also have to do with the kindle voice software (modern ones have available add on devices...the last ereader kindle to have a version was the original touch, the older fire devices have the superior Ivona software.) but regardless, it's not something that going to make 99.9 percent of ebook readers give a monkeys...we buy on kindle, read on kindle, we aren't very likely to be converting our books to run on a different ereader anyway...those that do use a non-kindle reader to read kindle store books are already doing it the hard way. (It's not like kindle devices are luxury items...top end ones maybe, but your basic kindle reading app is free on a device you already own most likely.) There's no purpose to DRM to lock in to a reader, there is only a reason for it in terms of ebook piracy.
Saying that...it's also possible the kfx format has a lot to do with media enriched ebooks (some of which are really nice.) or the way the amount of a book is read is tallied in order to pay authors. DRM is only ever added by the request of an author or publisher anyway...so again, I just don't see the evil 'it's new DRM' here...seeing as it is neither new, nor is it DRM.
*shrug*

 

[JWolf]

It may also have to do with the kindle voice software (modern ones have available add on devices...the last ereader kindle to have a version was the original touch, the older fire devices have the superior Ivona software.) but regardless, it's not something that going to make 99.9 percent of ebook readers give a monkeys...we buy on kindle, read on kindle, we aren't very likely to be converting our books to run on a different ereader anyway...those that do use a non-kindle reader to read kindle store books are already doing it the hard way. (It's not like kindle devices are luxury items...top end ones maybe, but your basic kindle reading app is free on a device you already own most likely.) There's no purpose to DRM to lock in to a reader, there is only a reason for it in terms of ebook piracy.
Saying that...it's also possible the kfx format has a lot to do with media enriched ebooks (some of which are really nice.) or the way the amount of a book is read is tallied in order to pay authors. DRM is only ever added by the request of an author or publisher anyway...so again, I just don't see the evil 'it's new DRM' here...seeing as it is neither new, nor is it DRM.
*shrug*

Kindle in Motion eBooks are not KFX.

Kindle in Motion
This book can be read on any device, including Kindle E-readers. Kindle in Motion books include art, animation, or video features that can be viewed on certain Fire tablets and the free Kindle app for iOS and Android. You can switch features on or off at any time.

KFX was created to build new walls for Amazon's walled garden. Nothing that KFX does could not be done with KF8 as long as the rendering software was written to do it. Justifying KFX isn't going to work as there's no justification for KFX.

 

[CaffeineAddict]

Calibre recognizes KFX. Calibre does not support KFX. Calibre cannot view, edit, or convert KFX. So no, Calibre does not support KFX. KFX is a form of DRM given that the reason for going DRM free is gone with KFX. With a DRM free ePub or KF8, you can edit and convert. So if you have ePub or KF8, you can get them into a format that works for you if the format it's in is not it.

Calling something DRM because you don't like it doesn't make it so. Its a file format, plain and simple.

If you dislike amazon so much, why buy from the kindle store, instead of an alternative provider?

If you want the older file format, you can still download them from your amazon account, by going to "Manage Your Content And Devices", picking the book and clicking "Download and Transfer via USB". This downloads an azw3 file rather than a kfx.

 

[jaime]

Kindle in Motion eBooks are not KFX.



KFX was created to build new walls for Amazon's walled garden. Nothing that KFX does could not be done with KF8 as long as the rendering software was written to do it. Justifying KFX isn't going to work as there's no justification for KFX.

It’s not a walled garden is it? You can read most anything else on their devices, you may have to convert it first, or email it to your kindle, where they convert it for you...and they don’t insist on you buying their product to access the content they sell. They use a variety of file formats, including this one...which apparently only their devices can use. But...there’s nothing exclusively in that format. If I buy...I dunno...Dan Browns latest...it’s not going to actually stop me reading it on any one of the bajillion devices I can read an ebook on. So..in no way is it a walled garden ecosystem. It’s just a file format. It’s not even like an iTunes video or something (that does have DRM, and is a walled garden, cos they do not provide other formats I can run on other devices.)
Whatever it provides, the worst you can say is it prevents piracy of specific files..also available in easily copiable, no drm, or convertible formats...
There must be another reason for its existence...maybe the opendyslexia font compatibility, maybe amazons own fonts, but clearly, DRM is not its purpose. And even it was...why would that be a bad thing?

 

[JD]

I really don't see what the problem is here, it sounds like it's just another new format.

 

[JWolf]

I really don't see what the problem is here, it sounds like it's just another new format.

KFX doesn't need to exist. It's only purpose is to lock people into Amazon devices/apps. It's to build upon the wall to make it an even bigger wall.

 

[JWolf]

It’s not a walled garden is it? You can read most anything else on their devices, you may have to convert it first, or email it to your kindle, where they convert it for you...and they don’t insist on you buying their product to access the content they sell. They use a variety of file formats, including this one...which apparently only their devices can use. But...there’s nothing exclusively in that format. If I buy...I dunno...Dan Browns latest...it’s not going to actually stop me reading it on any one of the bajillion devices I can read an ebook on. So..in no way is it a walled garden ecosystem. It’s just a file format. It’s not even like an iTunes video or something (that does have DRM, and is a walled garden, cos they do not provide other formats I can run on other devices.)
Whatever it provides, the worst you can say is it prevents piracy of specific files..also available in easily copiable, no drm, or convertible formats...

There must be another reason for its existence...maybe the opendyslexia font compatibility, maybe amazons own fonts, but clearly, DRM is not its purpose. And even it was...why would that be a bad thing?

There is a reason for KFX to exist. It's because it cannot be converted. It cannot have the DRM removed. It's to keep you inside the walled garden that's just gotten bigger. Just because it can be read with Amazon's apps does not make it any less of a walled garden. A walled garden is where you have an eBook that cannot leave that walled garden. KFX cannot leave the walled garden. KFX cannot be read on anything not Amazon. The problem Amazon had was that Mobi & KF8 can have DRM removed. They can be converted to ePub to be read on Kobo or any other app/device that reads ePub. KFX was created to stop that. This is not about piracy. This is about future proofing. KFX is not future proof. You can't take it with you if you go outside of Amazon's walled garden.

The reason KFX is a walled garden is because it cannot be read with anything that's not an Amazon device or app and even then there are a lot of Kindles out there that cannot read KFX. So if you have downloaded KFX with Kindle for PC or MAC, you cannot read it if you don't have a Kindle PW1 or newer. So if you were using K4PC/MAC to keep an offline backup of your eBooks, you could be screwed. So no matter where you can run a Kindle app, it's still within the walled garden. If you can show me where I can download KFX and read it with an app that's not from Amazon, then I'll agree the walled garden is not that high. But until then, you're just plain wrong.

 

[JD]

I still don't understand why this is such a problem. The vast majority of books are available on other formats, and for the few that aren't the Kindle apps are free and run on pretty much every device.