ST3: Why I love it

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by gomtuu20, Sep 2, 2016.

  1. Green

    Green Commander Red Shirt

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    The music, the main cast and the ILM FX made the made movie watchable. And I really disagree about the part on Vulcan being sub-par. I absolutely loved the ending -- the emotion, the music, Sarek, T'Lar, the set -- all great. And it may have been the last time Shatner really tried to be serious or stay in character thruout an entire movie.
     
  2. Smellmet

    Smellmet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Oh I dunno about that, his performance in TUC was pretty serious and in character. I'd argue that he was playing himself more in TFF and Generations and TVH was a bit of a mix of the two, but I see your point.
     
  3. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    To be fair, the movie was originally structured to begin with the Grissom finding Spock's tube intact. There was some jumbling of scenes in the final editing process to make the story flow better. Even Kirk's captain's log originally had a reference to "the news of Spock's tube troubles me," if I recall correctly. Anyway, that's what opened up this plot hole. The DC Comics adaptation was the first time I saw how it was originally supposed to fall together. Even down to the Vulcan child on the steps of Mt. Selaya.

    At the time of release, I never noticed and to this day, I don't care. This is my favorite film of the entire franchise. From story, to performances, to the superlative James Horner score. I love this film and, like others, truly consider it the final really serious original series cast film.
     
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  4. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    I don't understand why some viewers think that Kirk's "Klingon bastards" scene is bad acting. I thought it was quite touching.

    I think I may have expressed this idea before: I like various individual elements of TSFS, but I feel that it just didn't quite all come together into an outstanding whole.

    Kor
     
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  5. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I always considered it some of Shatner's best work. This was his movie, really. He was marvelous.
     
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  6. Vger23

    Vger23 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Totally agree. One of the best Kirk moments in the entire franchise.
     
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  7. Vger23

    Vger23 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Totally (I mean absolutely wholeheartedly) disagree on his TUC performance. There was nothing very serious about it, and by that time it was far more comic-bookish and wink-wink, nudge-nudge at the audience.

    Star Trek felt most real in TMP, TWOK and TSFS.
     
  8. Smellmet

    Smellmet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Examples? I'll give you the shapeshifter scene where there's two shats, I'm struggling to think of any more. I've always seen TUC as a welcome return to 'serious' trek after the previous two, and I think shatners performance largely reflects that, despite the humour in the film.
     
  9. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That shape-shifter sequence really is a standout because it is totally at odds with the rest of Shatner's portrayal. Yeah, I get that Kirk has dealt with evil duplicates a number of times before, so it's probably old hat, but as soon as Martia takes his form, it's all played for laughs. The rest of the film, I think Shatner does pretty well. He has the old fire in spades and his performance is serious if a bit over the top. Where I start to see "Shatner" rather than "Kirk" are those times he leans on his tics and mannerisms which developed over time for him. His facial expressions become more exaggerated and obvious. He was still the greatest source of energy in that film, though.

    I do agree that TUC is littered with too many jokes and gags. Anything with Chekov and Uhura is generally ridiculous and the search for the gravity boots is comically overblown ('comin' thru, comin' thru!" with like 5 guys checking one room). The insistence on ramping up the humor really blunted the impact of TUC for me.
     
  10. JaxsBrokenHeart

    JaxsBrokenHeart Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I prefer Shatner slightly more in SFS, if just because it seems like the direction in TUC doesn't quite get him to a place where the bigoted remarks and disgust for the Klingons feels completely natural for Kirk. He gives a solid effort, but certain scenes have an undercurrent of "Shatner trying to make the allegorical metaphor work" rather than than organic character stuff that sucks one into the story.
     
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  11. Smellmet

    Smellmet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Agreed. I'm in no way arguing that Shatner's performance is as serious as the first three movies, but it's a damn sight more grounded than in TVH (which is granted, a comedy) and TFF. I love his performance in TSFS, as it blends just the right amount of dry humour of Kirk with the serious side of him. Really for me his showings in TWOK and TSFS represent the pinnacle of the character's arc, and the performance of the actor portraying him. TMP, whilst serious, had problems all of it's own, which was probably more down to the script and tone of the film than much else. Generally I found his performance in TUC a welcome blip in an otherwise downward trajectory of Shatner playing himself.
     
  12. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    earth...but when?...spock?
    always figured Shatner was playing a more mature thoughtful somewhat sombre 'Admiral' Kirk in Treks I-IV & VI (IV bit comedic due to the 86 fish out of water material. VI abit more lighter due to old age mellowing/anniversary/last film) and in V/Gen hes the 'afraid of nothing' all running and jumping horseriding rockclimbing fast speaking hyper energetic Captain Shatner :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  13. Smellmet

    Smellmet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Which is a quite inconsistent portrayal of the character don't you think?
     
  14. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    its due to him writing/directing himself in V and the TNG team probably in awe of him for Gen (therefore he just played it how he wanted/as himself - no Wise/Meyer/Nimoy to rein him in lol)
     
  15. Vger23

    Vger23 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Hard to put a finger on...I just don't buy the performances (as a whole) in TUC as much as I do in the first three movies. Seems like everyone was busy being whimsical and nostalgic and winking at the camera and enjoying the moment rather than selling the seriousness of the situation. (Of course, Kirk literally winks at the camera in TMP...but that's besides the point...haha)

    I love Shatner, and think he did a nice job in some sections of TUC...but I certainly don't think his performance is anywhere near my personal preferences for the character in most of that movie. He nails it much more in the first three for me, and really sells the urgency and emotion of those films. TUC always felt like a movie with a grand idea and massive sense of importance with a shoestring execution that never put it over the top. I'd put the main cast's performances as part of the reason I feel that way. On the other hand, TSFS despite some weaknesses, sold me from start to finish, in large part because Shatner was bearing his soul in that performance. It was masterful.
     
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  16. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    Wow. I don't think I've ever seen such an in depth deconstruction of Shatner's work before. Lots of good points here. Interesting reading.

    I myself don't really mind the more self-deprecating or self-referential stuff he did. I think by the time TUC came around it was almost expected. Certainly, I prefer the meatier character defining stuff, but I'm not bothered by any of it. There's some rose-colored glasses there though. Kind of like how I can look past the TOS antiquated sets or FX. That kind of nostalgia has a place in Star Trek imho. You forgive a little what might not hold up in hindsight
     
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  17. Smellmet

    Smellmet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Absolutely.

    I always thought he was winking at Chekov :)
     
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  18. Vger23

    Vger23 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    One of my favorite Kirk moments in TSFS is when Morrow is speechifying Kirk in the officer's lounge at SF Headquarters ("Jim, your life and your career stand for rationality...") and the camera just slowly closes on Shatner. In that moment you can see everything- he is already plotting in his mind the entire plan, weighting the consequences, etc. Then, he quickly snaps his "game face" smile back on acting sheepish and saying, "I hear you... had to try," leaving Morrow to think that the discussion is closed.

    Very good stuff.
     
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  19. Smellmet

    Smellmet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah I love that bit, the scene just says so much without having to waste time with a lengthier bit of exposition, and what comes next is just pretty much my favourite sequence in all of Trek.
     
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  20. Vger23

    Vger23 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The theft of the Enterprise segment is pure Trek gold!
     
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